Warmonger

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

Salam all, I've been doubtful about warmonger. My question are

1.If there is a group of people wanna make genocide Muslims, what will you do?

Actively resist if they actually take actions toward their desires. Wanting to and desiring are not the same as having the means to--or actually being dangerous.

2.If you were Syrian people, what would you do?

Take a side or leave. I would never choose to be the "innocent bystander."

3.What will you do if Sunni and Shiah wanna kill you because of Quran alone?

If they want to kill that is one thing. If any takes actions to kill/harm then I will actively resist.

4.Do you agree with Syrian president?

No.

5.Do all Sunni scholars go to hell according to Quran?

No.

6.What is jihad according to Quran alone?

Struggle towards good, but not necessarily pertaining to violence.

May God shows us the right path

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Bigmo

Salam all, I've been doubtful about warmonger. My question are

1.If there is a group of people wanna make genocide Muslims, what will you do?

2.If you were Syrian people, what would you do?

3.What will you do if Sunni and Shiah wanna kill you because of Quran alone?

4.Do you agree with Syrian president?

5.Do all Sunni scholars go to hell according to Quran?

6.What is jihad according to Quran alone?

May God shows us the right path

First of all Jihad is a general term used in the Quran for any form of stuggle for the faith. It can include fighting but not necessarily so. As far as fighting is concerned what student of Allah said is correct. We are to fight only for defensive purpose when we are being attacked. We can also fight when a believing party wrongfully attacks another believing party until the wrongfull party stops or is made to stop.

The Quran does not recognize wars of conquest or spreading religion etc.

As far as Syria's president he strikes me as just another dictator who knows most Syrians do not want his rule and want freedom but does not want to leave power even and is willing to kill. Just like Qaddafi and Husni Mubarak and Ali Saleh of Yemen. He will only leave by force.

Student_of_Allah

Shalom aleikhem mirjamnur,

I apologize if I misunderstood the point you tried to make. Let us try again

You didn't get my point?
I'll explain it to you

How to Muslims behave towards the Kafirs? Check out
3115 (be fair) ,6108 (do not insult),4133 (the best speech)

I was not writing about my behavior towards kafirs. I was writing about my response to anyone who declared war and is attacking me. So this example does not apply.

Question 2 How Muslims respond appropriately and with dignity on hostility and insults?
2563 (walking modestly on earth).,4134-36 (turn the bad with the better).3135 (be humble).4140 (don't sit with anybody ridicule Allah)

Once again, you wrongly assumed that the situation allows it. We are talking about a WAR and when the enemy already ATTACKED. Please kindly re-read what I wrote, I clearly mentioned that to help provide context.

Question 3 How to behave as Muslims in anger and rage?
4236-43 (Evil can give back with evil, those who forgive has reward from God),3134 (suppress the anger and pardon)

I strongly believe you are missing my context. Once again, the context is TOTAL WARFARE. Not an everyday dispute or a general remark from a traditionalist which is rude. Under no thought process will my brain cells ever calculate out that forgiving them when their bombers are flying towards my hometown is a good thing to do. If anything, I will become a support of his cause by doing that. Someone allowing injustice to go on like that is guilty as the oppressor too.

Question 5 Which behavior have submitted to God?
486 (right greeting)494 (investigate carefully)
We should as a devotee always nice words on the best way to use, be humble and meek, etc.
1424-25 Do you not see how God cites the parable of the good word? He compares the good word with a good tree whose roots are firmly in the ground and whose branches extend high into the sky. It bears fruit with God's permission for some time. God cites the parables for men, that they are concerned.

3119 Jump modest step, and lower your voice! The ugliest voice is the donkey. "

16125 a charge to the path of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching, and debating with them on the best way! Your Lord is He Who knows best who turns away from His Path and who finds the right line.

3159 And (just) because of the grace of God you were gentle towards them. But you were harsh, have been hard-hearted, they would certainly leave you. Thus they forgive, ask forgiveness for them and consult them about the whole affair. If you take a decision, put your trust in God, for God loves those who rely on Him.

1322 the wait out of desire for the Face of their Lord, doing the contact prayers, donations of gifts of God publicly and secretly, and repel evil with good. The beautiful home you deserve in the afterlife.
Use of swearing and "bad words" to be arrogant to exploit nature without restraint, about other people not to mock represent a righteous behavior
1426 A bad word is like a bad tree which is uprooted from the earth and has no grip on the ground.

3118 do not treat people with arrogance and not wander on the earth carelessly. God loves not any arrogant boaster.

4911 O ye who believe! No man is allowed to make fun of another, perhaps this is better than him. No woman should scoff at another, perhaps this is better than them. Do not slander one another! Another says no bad words and bad names! There is nothing worse than to commit this crime, after accepting faith. Those who do not desist it is remorseful, truly the wrongdoers.
Devotee should NOT be suspicious and racist spy, and not slander
496 O ye who believe, if a wicked person brings you any news, it turns out an investigation, that ye harm people unwittingly, and injustice have to repent afterwards, what you did.

4912-13 O ye who believe! Avoids speculation, because it can be sinful! No spying on each other does not slander with slander! For example, someone wants to eat the flesh of his dead brother? As you hated it, hated the gossip! Fear God! God is full of mercy and accepts the repentance. O mankind, We created you from male and female and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know one another. Truly, God is the most honored of you, which is the most righteous. Verily, God is Knowing, Aware.

Totally irrelevant. Stating once again, that I provided the context, and that was full on war.

Question 4 What are the ideals of the Muslims? What are the main principles of righteousness?

I don't see words like motherfcker and fck and other insults are characteristic for a believer. You think one second, what a motherf*cker is? Bad words has nothing to do with 'unicorn' and 'dreams'
i never said i will welcome them in my house. i will fight against the one who fight with me. but i will try to not insult. that's all. If you think i'm like a kid, then i'm sorry.
Peace

I want to make it very clear that I quoted the quote from the movie to express my anger in the context that I along with fellow Qur'an alone followers are facing WAR. The hurtful words from the innocent, in a context where one party is about to murder the innocent unjustly is the last thing that matters, if at all. Anyways, I do get your point, and keeping our calm is good. But there are times, when keeping calm serves the situation unjustly. We may differ in opinion regarding the boundaries, but I do respect your view.

Now , coming back to defend my original statement. Instead of quoting verses about everyday interactions which I was not referring to in the first place, present me evidence from the Qur'an in the context of WARFARE. Let us see how my warfare system is so bad and "total forgiveness and praying for them" when the enemies are at the gates waiting to slay you are justified.

Peace
--------- Student of Allah

Sir_Comcision

Vanquish the enemy!
Vanquish the enemy!
Vanquish the enemy!
He is the enemy, vanquish him!
They are the enemy, vanquish them!
Vanquishing the enemy, VANQUISH THEM!

Tonight we dine in hell!

eat

YAMU

Greetings and Peace, all group

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

I don't reject that Allah knows best, because all things belong to Allah. However, Allah sent the message to tackle the problem on earth.

Jafar

So let's assume a situation from a real life example..

You're an ahmadi.. a sunni mob lead by their imams is marching to your village..
They're carrying torches.. and some carries rudimentary weapons such as swords, (fake and assembled) AK47, Clubs etc..
They're shouting "Allahu Akbar!!", "Death to Ahmadis!!".. "Burn their houses!!" "Burn the kuffars!!"

What would you do?

Salam / Peace

YAMU

So let's assume a situation from a real life example..

You're an ahmadi.. a sunni mob lead by their imams is marching to your village..
They're carrying torches.. and some carries rudimentary weapons such as swords, (fake and assembled) AK47, Clubs etc..
They're shouting "Allahu Akbar!!", "Death to Ahmadis!!".. "Burn their houses!!" "Burn the kuffars!!"

What would you do?

Salam / Peace

Salam

Quran (533) Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment.

Quran (474) So when you meet those who disbelieve , strike necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either favor afterwards or ransom until the war lays down its burdens. That . And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them , but to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.

mirjamnur

Salam Student of Allah and all

I know that the above situation constitutes an exceptional situation. I also see that there are not your words.
I can not take a verse that refers LITERAL OF DEFENCE IN CASE OF WAR. This is also clear. yeah
I was just shocked by the language. Maybe I'm really on the moon, but I really don't like such expressions, even in anger.
In the event of war, believe me, I would also most probably by a follower of temperament when i must see people to slaughter innocent children, etc. (just when i see my reaction if anybody hits my children i lost also the control ..) >
The ideal is far removed from reality ... I fear.
Nevertheless, I would like to replace these words and cry against them prefer small-minded racists and Childrenmurders and small brain yes indivuduals, brutal war machines and robots, sad creatures ...
salam

yellowdog8272

Jihad only leads to death of more Muslims. Jihadists never attack the West or Israel, instead they kill Muslims. Jihadists live in the West, but they never touch the West instead they travel to the Middle-East to do jihad. Jihadists never touch Israel, instead they go to Syria for jihad while killing more Sunnis and Alawites. Jihadists are useless cannonfodder who have killed more Muslims than anyone ever could have.

Muslims are bigger victims than atheists and jews to Islamists/jihad. Muslims are more likely to be punished than atheists or jews in Iran.

Jihad probaly means to struggle, but today the term has been hjiacked by Islamists.

You're an ahmadi.. a sunni mob lead by their imams is marching to your village..
They're carrying torches.. and some carries rudimentary weapons such as swords, (fake and assembled) AK47, Clubs etc..
They're shouting "Allahu Akbar!!", "Death to Ahmadis!!".. "Burn their houses!!" "Burn the kuffars!!"

What would you do?

You arrest them all and deport them back to their countries. It's sad that the Middle-East has such a strong religious influence because all jihadists flock to the Middle-East to either do jihad or go on hajj and it's all coming from Europe. Europe is such a pathetic region.

But these mobs can be controlled by religious sheikhs. The Saudi regime enjoys using religion as a tool, but it's using it on the wrong people. It's using it to kill more Muslims. The jihadists should be sent to Israel as cannonfodder and to the West instead. That's where THEY belong.

These riots happens when some Western idiots decides to draw Muhammed to provoke Muslims. It makes me disturbed that the Arab world somehow risk their own citizens just to protect these Western savages. Afterall, the Islamists who riot on the streets are only after the Westerner ambassadors whom they consider responsible for drawing Muhammed. If I was the leader of the Arab world, I'd let the Islamists attack the Westerner ambassador so long they don't hurt any of my citizens, then I'd arrest them to prevent any of my citizens from getting hurt by these savages. But even better, just deport all Islamists to the West. Give them European citizenship and weapons, and let them go there and cause trouble.

Anyway personally I have never met any Sunni here who want to attack anybody due to their religious view. Most Sunnis I know here are secular and they eat pork, while drinking alcohol, and some of them pray too. Specialy the Balkan Muslims and the Lebanese, they're quite secular. A lot of Arabs I know here have left Islam but this is not because they find that Islam is oppressive or wrong or anything like that but rather because they just want to live on their life without caring about religion in general. This is the effect of a education rich country.

Reee

The jihadists should be sent to Israel as cannonfodder and to the West instead. That's where THEY belong.
...
But even better, just deport all Islamists to the West. Give them European citizenship and weapons, and let them go there and cause trouble.

THank you very much. I (and I think many others in this forum) live in "the West". So you will stand applauding if we are killed by islamists?

Seems that your world view is as simplistic as that of the very islamists.

yellowdog8272

Why should I care? It's not my fault that the West plays with fire. Who seeds wind, shall harvest storm. (French proverb)

The UK, Denmark, Bulgaria are all sending jihadists to my country to wipe out its natives. Europe destroyed my country, and tried to establish a trade embargo with Al-Qaida/Islamists - This is another version of cold-war between three physcopaths (i.e America, Europe and Russia). I recently saw pictures of decapitated Syrian Christians who were beheaded by British terrorists. I recently saw destroyed Syrian cultural sites(Destroyed by rebels who considered it haram) - I think I have the right to be outraged on Europe. I recently saw a picture of some European twat in ISIS (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant) posting a picture of him on twitter with some Syrian/Iraqi hostages having their hands tied, and he wrote that he'd execute them in the name of God. Last time I visited Syria was a long time ago, and today I can't visit my country anymore knowing that it would not be the same. Even in Maloula(The only village were Aramaic still lives), a lot of Christian heritage have been destroyed.

http//i.imgur.com/f4M6F5F.jpg
http//i.imgur.com/QxUG2ir.jpg
http//i.imgur.com/jjIKM4r.jpg
http//i.imgur.com/jjIKM4r.jpg
http//i.imgur.com/8cBIBDB.jpg

British jihadists leaves to fight in Syria and behead people. What does Britain do? Answer Rather than to arrest them, it revokes their citizenship and gives them a new one after some years. It's more like a "Good job" from them. Europe gives weapons to Islamists in the ME, while they push off refugees who are escaping a war-thorn country.

Europe benefits from dictators in the Middle-East. I'd like to see my country having democracy, but not this fake democracy that Europe is making propaganda on(i.e Shariah). Europe is responsible for the bloodshed in the Middle-East through its gulf-allies. I'd like the Arab world to stop selling oil to these European idiotic leaders, I'd love to see Europe go down for what it did to our countries.

So you will stand applauding if we are killed by islamists?

Only to those Westerners who were applauding when Islamists were killing my citizens.

Seems that your world view is as simplistic as that of the very islamists.

Why? I oppose Islamists and all types of religious stupidity, be that Zionists or Islamists but I also oppose European imperalism(And no I'm not a leftist). I believe in democracy based on a unitary parliamentary constitutional monarchy, but I also believe that as long as Europe exists, such democracy might be illusionary.

JavaLatte

The UK, Denmark, Bulgaria are all sending jihadists to my country to wipe out its natives.

British jihadists leaves to fight in Syria and behead people.

European jihadist? Wow!? ) Who are they actually?

So, there are also Europeans who believe that such thing is jihad?

I wonder how they get the 'jihad' ideas until they truly believe it.

Peace.

yellowdog8272

Most of them are Eastern-Europeans(i.e Checens) like these cowardly Checens who execute Syrian children in this video (+1 https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeAk8rf47l8

A lot of European morons believe in jihad, and why and how is something I'll never understand. A lot of these idiots were converted by local extremists Imams and then later on sent as cannonfodder. Europe has a lot of extremism, it's logical that many Europeans believe in either jihad or right-wing politics. It's sad that such region has such a high education, yet too many are too stupid and idiotic that don't deserve it. My point is that Europe does not deserve this in the same way Saudi-Arabia doesn't deserve its oil because all they use their oil-money for is to fund terrorism in the ME or mosques in Europe. It's sad that many of these morons have changed their names into Arabic names, and infected the entire Middle-East. This is why I wrote in my previous post that the jihadists need to be deported back to Europe, that's where they belong. They have nothing to do with the Middle-East, they're a bunch of European converts who changed their names into Arabic since they want to feel "closer" to Islam. They belong in Europe. Let those pathetic morons cause trouble in their OWN countries instead.

Europe enjoys when jihadists leave their countries. Recently, Europe has been worried that these jihadists would return and that's why they're acting now, but they never say anything when jihadists leave their garbage countries.

Turkey (A NATO country, and soon to become a part of the EU) is the country that's sending foreign jihadists into Syria through its borders and is the country that hjiacked the Syrian revolution. This is an act of war and illegal war crime. What does the rest of the Arab countries do? They stand and watch while even promoting these kind of things. Such stupidity will stop when true nationalism takes over the Arab world which begin valuing the lives of its citizens while dealing with Europe.

JavaLatte

Most of them are Eastern-Europeans(i.e Checens) like these cowardly Checens who execute Syrian children in this video (+1 https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeAk8rf47l8

Ugh, those gunmen are coward terrorists!! >(

Europe enjoys when jihadists leave their countries. Recently, Europe has been worried that these jihadists would return and that's why they're acting now, but they never say anything when jihadists leave their garbage countries.

Oh, now I can understand it. So, Europe wants to clean their own countries from those brainwashed terrorists.

Jihadists is unappropriate term for them...

What does the rest of the Arab countries do? They stand and watch while even promoting these kind of things. Such stupidity will stop when true nationalism takes over the Arab world which begin valuing the lives of its citizens while dealing with Europe.

Arab countries cannot be relied on to bring peace.

Reee

Why?

Because you talk about Europe as is it was a monolithic entity. Well, I live in Europe, but I AM not Europe, i.e. I don't decide the politics of Europe; I neither send jihadists nor soldiers nor low-salary-factories to any part of the world, so I don't want to be held responsible for politics that I don't share (yes, I AM a leftist )

I believe in democracy based on a unitary parliamentary constitutional monarchy, but I also believe that as long as Europe exists, such democracy might be illusionary.

So you think the landmass called Europe has to sink into the atlantic ocean before there can be democracy?? I don't believe in monarchies, but I hope (I am not sure if I believe) that there could be real democracy in Europe and elsewhere one day.

yellowdog8272

Because you talk about Europe as is it was a monolithic entity. Well, I live in Europe, but I AM not Europe, i.e. I don't decide the politics of Europe; I neither send jihadists nor soldiers nor low-salary-factories to any part of the world, so I don't want to be held responsible for politics that I don't share (yes, I AM a leftist )

You're right - I totally agree with you. ) I'm actually refering to the governments of Europe, but I'm sometimes too lazy to write it out, so I usually stick to writing "Europe".

So you think the landmass called Europe has to sink into the atlantic ocean before there can be democracy?? I don't believe in monarchies, but I hope (I am not sure if I believe) that there could be real democracy in Europe and elsewhere one day.

No not really, but sometimes it actually feels like the only solution. Europe has always been the ones who were helping Islamists to come to power in the Middle-East. The Islamists in Saudi-Arabia came to power with the help of the British. The regimes of the European countries do not really care about democracy in the Middle-East, their hypocrisy regarding the Bahrain uprising(Or any other gulf-country) explains it. When the Ukranian regime was hit by an uprising, people like Carl Bildt spoke a lot against on how the police there were using violence towards protestors, but when the Pro-Russia Ukranians decided to protest against the current Ukranian regime, Carl Bildt(Along with his European politician facists) supported in using violence against these protestors while making excuses by calling them "Non-Ukranian", "Pro-Russian", etc. Or the conflict in Turkey(A close ally to the European regimes) were police are suppressing the Turkish protestors with tear gas and water cannons everyday.

Whenever a democratic uprising happens in any of the Arab countries, the Europeans begin to interfear to assure that the democratic movement gets hjiacked by Islamists with the help of their gulf friends, and then they act as if they didin't know and as if they were against Islamists in the first place but in reality they promote the Islamists. The regimes of the European countries have always been the reason for why the Arab world is never able to have democracy, and the moronic regimes are doing it on purpose. They don't want the Arab world to become democratic because then their pathetic ally i.e Israel would end up destroyed for good, and all the military bases by the US in the Arab countries would end up kicked out as the Arab countries would never want any foreign military bases in their countries. The only reason why the US and the European politicians are running freely in the Middle-East is because of these Islamists(i.e people like Abdullah, Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani, etc) who oppresses their citizens and tries to keep them primitive under their rule, while they and the Europeans are shaking hands. The only reason why the gulf-countries have managed to avoid mass-protests is due to oil. The European regimes along with their Gulf-regimes are trying to help the Islamists to come to power while trying to suppress/murder all Arab intellectuals, nationalists, and secularists who mostly flourish in the levant and north-africa and it will soon happen in the gulf-countries.

Now when I'm talking about monarchies, I'm refering to the ones that exists in Sweden and not the terrible ones that exist in Saudi-Arabia. Sweden has true democracy, that's why many other European countries tries to copy Sweden but end up failing. Even Israel tries to copy Sweden, but Israel fails as well as Israel could never become democratic when Jewish superiority is still running inside its politics. Sweden taught that no religion would ever end up controlling its politics, and that anyone regardless of ethnicity, religion or gender can join the Swedish politics. 45-49% in the Swedish parliament are females, and I believe that it's increasing. Sweden has the highest rate of equality, and is superior to other European countries in terms of democracy.

Syria became democratic long before any pathetic western-european country became democratic, and long before Israel managed to claim that it was "democratic". Syria had a democratic government since the overthrow of Adib al-Shishakli's military regime in 1954. In 1954, after a series of military dictatorships that had lasted since 1949, Syria became a democracy, and in the elections held that year, Khalid Bakdash(He was the leader of the Syrian Communist party) won a seat in parliament for the Damascus area, becoming the first communist elected to an Arab parliament. The party adopted a moderate programme and opened its ranks to all those accepting it, rather than functioning as a restricted Leninist vanguard organisation. It built up a significant support base among the working class, Kurds and intellectuals. They emphasized the party's attachment to the anti-colonial struggle and sought to establish it as a democratic mass movement rather than the restricted Marxist-Leninist vanguard organisation which a close adherence to Leninist principles might have dictated.

Then Nasser began demanding a unity as he wanted Egypt and Syria to become one country(Hence the United Arab Republic) and popular desire for unity was such that no one could oppose it. Nasser opposed Communism though and political pluralism which is why he banned the Syrian Communist party as he feared that the Arabs would adopt Communism and bann all religions including their own as communism was critical of all religion, and often sought to bann religions to unite the people as one. When the United Arab Republic was formed under Nasser, many Arab communists were imprisoned and in some cases killed.

The union(i.e United Arab Republic) ended in 1961 when a coup led to Syria's secession. The Syrian Communist Party was strongly identified with the secessionist tendency and suffered a loss of popular support and membership as a result. Worse was to follow, when the pro-unification coup of 1963 brought a military-based government consisting largely of Ba'thists and Nasserists to power and the party was once again repressed. That's when the neo-ba'ath party came to power. Hafez Al-Assad (The leader of the party) promised a lot of changed, but he only did it to win the election.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Communist_Party
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Bakdash
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riyad_al-Turk
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Aflaq
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Republic

There was also a split in the Syrian Communist Party, as many began criticizing Bakdash for having a negative view on Pan-Arabism which is why the Syrian Democratic People's Party was founded by Riyad Al-Turk who wanted a more positive view of Arab nationalism. Ba'athism was also orginally a democratic Syrian party. Michel Aflaq (A Syrian Christian) founded the party, and he was interested in an Arab unity while calling for democracy based on socialism, and he was in favor of free speech and other human rights and aid for the lower classes while opposing dictatorship. After he died, his party was hjiacked by Saddam and Hafez-Al Assad.

These days, the European regimes are trying to ruin my country by killing all Arab intellectuals while supporting the foreign Islamists. This is what they do in every Arab country.

roshan_m

Europe, Europe, Europe, everything is Europe's fault, yeah right.

Europe sends jihadists to Syria? That's just ridiculous statement. The only fault that European countries did was not being strict enough with all those poor guys from middle east and Asia who claimed refugee status through lies, such as that they are homosexuals and they would be killed in their country or through other dishonest means. That those poor refugees couldn't cope with culture differences because of Islamic brainwashing they got in local mosques and lack of tolerance to differences and lack of flexibility and then they became more and more extremist is also the fault of the Europe? Probably, the fact that they were allowed to build mosques was Europe's its biggest mistake... Switzerland doesn't have mosques and surprisingly, doesn't have too nut cases asking for Sharia law to be implemented as it is the case in Muslim dominated areas in the UK..

And for those who really believe that Europeans are happy if Jihadists go to Syria, this is pure nonsense. It is obvious that when they come back they would create problems in Europe too, so some states recently realised it and try to take some measures to punish those jihadi guys.

Muslims let their leaders and scholars to ride over them, brainwash them and do whatever they wanted with the country, including selling their country to foreign powers over the centuries. The fact that Muslims let it happen for such a long time is partly their fault as well and they should realise it. They used to have powerful states, great universities thriving with new ideas and knowledge. That they all let it to turn into the darkest of dark ages through brainwash from mullahs and leaders and total submission to really corrupt and oppressive authorities is their heritage as well. Nowadays all they know to do is blame others (West, Jewish,US, whatever) for things that they are accountable for as well.

I'm sorry if it sound a bit too harsh, I only wanted to show that the victim mentality that Muslims put themselves in is not the best strategy to fight the problems of poverty, war and destitution. God doesn't change the state of people until they change it themselves.

Reee

You're right - I totally agree with you. ) I'm actually refering to the governments of Europe, but I'm sometimes too lazy to write it out, so I usually stick to writing "Europe".

Well you should become a bit more diligent then, as this makes a big difference. I agree with the critique on European governments, but I reject a generalized attack on "Europe".

But still, each country (and each individual) shares its part of responsibility.

yellowdog8272

Europe, Europe, Europe, everything is Europe's fault, yeah right.

Europe sends jihadists to Syria? That's just ridiculous statement. The only fault that European countries did was not being strict enough with all those poor guys from middle east and Asia who claimed refugee status through lies, such as that they are homosexuals and they would be killed in their country or through other dishonest means. That those poor refugees couldn't cope with culture differences because of Islamic brainwashing they got in local mosques and lack of tolerance to differences and lack of flexibility and then they became more and more extremist is also the fault of the Europe? Probably, the fact that they allowed to build mosques in Europe was its biggest mistake...

And for those who really believe that Europeans are happy if Jihadists go to Syria, this is pure nonsense. It is obvious that when they come back they would create problems in Europe too, so some states recently realised it and try to take some measures to punish those jihadi guys.

Muslims let their leaders and scholars to ride over them, brainwash them and do whatever they wanted with the country, including selling their country to foreign powers over the centuries. The fact that Muslims let it happen for such a long time is partly their fault as well and they should realise it. They used to have powerful states, great universities thriving with new ideas and knowledge. That they all let it to turn into the darkest of dark ages through brainwash from mullahs and leaders and total submission to really corrupt and oppressive authorities is their heritage as well. Nowadays all they know to do is blame others (West, Jewish,US, whatever) for things that they are accountable for as well.

I'm sorry if it sound a bit too harsh, I only wanted to show that the victim mentality that Muslims put themselves in is not the best strategy to fight the problems of poverty, war and destitution. God doesn't change the state of people until they change it themselves.

Europe sends jihadists to Syria? That's just ridiculous statement.

The European countries really need to start taking care of their borders. But not only has the European regimes sent jihadists to Syria, but even giving them weapons.

Turkey(A NATO-country, and soon to become a part of the European union) was the country that hjiacked the Syrian revolution.

"You should just see how low & dirty these people are(Refering to the Islamists). He [fecilitator would select who to send for Jihad. That person would then leave to Turkey. From Turkey, he would talk to him on the phone telling him to go to Antakya and meet with Abu Ahmad. And we know that the guys in Syria know where Abu Ahmad is. Abu Ahmad would then deliver them at the Antakya border to Sheikh Abu Hadi. Abu Hadi would then enter the first point of the so-called Free Syrian army and goes for Jihad. Then, Abu Hadi goes back to Turkey during heavy combat to stay in a dreamhouse. " Tunisian ex-jihadist tells his story

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLWLf7ubjXQ

And for those who really believe that Europeans are happy if Jihadists go to Syria, this is pure nonsense. It is obvious that when they come back they would create problems in Europe too, so some states recently realised it and try to take some measures to punish those jihadi guys.

They don't punish them. They revoke their citizenship and give them a new one after some years instead which doesn't change the fact that these jihadists have blood on their hands and needs to be jailed. Yes the European countries are very happy if the jihadists leave and go to the Middle-east, that way, they won't have any jihadist in their countries.

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pdvbinNLH8 - German Report How Turkey Arms and Sends Wahhabi Jihadists into Syria.

In the video, Erdogan is criticized by a Turkish politician who says

"You cannot bring terrorists from 40 different countries to Turkey because you think a dictatorship is ruling Syria. To give them arms and money.. and to send them into Syria! Yes, that's what you are doing! You support terrorism."

Or what about this Turkish reporter who almost ended up kidnapped as she exposed how some Turkish soldiers were sending in foreign fighters into Syria - https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM-QB2WZwCg

But not only did the Turkish regime somehow hjiack the Syrian revolution, it also looted Syria. https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYw1_s7o08g A raw video which appears to show several trucks carrying Syrian factories that are heading from Syria to Turkey.

About 1,000 factories have been robed in Syria's second largest city of Aleppo. The city which is considered as Syria's commercial hub is home to some 30,000 factories that were producing everything from soap to textile before the fighting erupted between the government forces and foreign backed insurgents widely known in the West as the Free Syrian Army.

In a letter to the UN Security council chief Ban Ki Moon, the Syrian Foreign Ministry says the merchandise - ranging from machinery, equipment, vehicles to raw materials-- are being taken away by armed gangs with the full knowledge and facilitation of the Turkish government.

The Jihadists ARE entering from Turkey, and Jordan. Turkey is a NATO country, and Jordan is a pro-US country.

But Turks and Syrians are very close to each other, and have always been friends. I'm sure that the majority Turks do not want anything to do with the corruption in Turkey. I bet that many hate Erdogan which is why protests took place.

Muslims let their leaders and scholars to ride over them, brainwash them and do whatever they wanted with the country, including selling their country to foreign powers over the centuries. The fact that Muslims let it happen for such a long time is partly their fault as well and they should realise it. They used to have powerful states, great universities thriving with new ideas and knowledge. That they all let it to turn into the darkest of dark ages through brainwash from mullahs and leaders and total submission to really corrupt and oppressive authorities is their heritage as well. Nowadays all they know to do is blame others (West, Jewish,US, whatever) for things that they are accountable for as well.

The problem is that when we talk about the Middle-East, everyone begins refering the Arab countries as "Muslim countries". We are NOT Muslim countries, and never will be. Secondly, I do not want to see any of my citizens whether they be homosexuals, jews, muslims being refugees in other countries. I want to see them happily living as citizens. And Europe barely accepts any refugees. Europe accepts 10 000-15 000 refugees compared to Lebanon that accepts 1m refugees.

Religious influence is only strong in the European friend's countries (i.e the gulf-countries) who uses religion as a tool to terrorize.

Nowadays all they know to do is blame others (West, Jewish,US, whatever) for things that they are accountable for as well.

I get that you're trying to say that Muslims should somehow take responsability, and I agree, but to deny European involvement is something I disagree on. Syria is being used as a cold-war country.

Probably, the fact that they were allowed to build mosques was Europe's its biggest mistake... Switzerland doesn't have mosques and surprisingly, doesn't have too nut cases asking for Sharia law to be implemented as it is the case in Muslim dominated areas in the UK..

The fact that the Arab countries allow US bases is our BIGGEST mistake. The fact that we build religious sites over schools is our biggest mistake. Each Arab country could become ten times better than Israel and Turkey combined in the Middle-East assuming they stop waisiting their oil-money & resources on religion and begin using it on education. The gulf-countries are already ten times richer than almost all of the European countries, while having a better HDI than most European countries despite them not having full democracy yet. The fact that we allow these moronic EU politician, specialy Erdogan, to destabilise a fellow Arab country whom is close to us is our biggest mistake. The fact that we Arabs, Muslims in particular, hurt our own citizens for not sharing the same religion as us is our biggest mistake. I hope to see Arab Jews coming back to their countries, and I hope to see that Arab Muslims start helping their own citizens over the non-Arab Muslims - I say this as a Muslim. I'm a secular Muslim, and I certainly oppose all types of religious nationalism, and those Islamists are nothing but a bunch of cannon-fodder, indoctrinated easily due to terrible education, morals and ethics, and those who are using them are the European regimes. The European regimes are just lucky that those people who are our leaders in our countries are religious nutjobs who value the live of a religious person, rather than the native person. Personally, as a Muslim, I believe that a country should spend its wealth on education, health and technology, and not on religion, but sadly enough our countries are very corrupt.

The European regimes also established an oil-embargo with rebels in Syria. http//landdestroyer.blogspot.se/2013/05/eu-lifts-oil-embargo-on-syria-buys.html - The European regimes are basically looting Syria. This is an ACT of war - The European regimes have no right to export oil from a sovreign country. This is why I mentioned that our own regimes are corrupt in the Middle-East, and they are not interested in helping their fellow Arab countries. It's actually time that we start condeming these European regimes.

Europe does not have to worry about extremism as their gulf-allies are just not interested in making "fatwah" against Europe.

roshan_m

The European countries really need to start taking care of their borders. But not only has the European regimes sent jihadists to Syria, but even giving them weapons.

Turkey(A NATO-country, and soon to become a part of the European union) was the country that hjiacked the Syrian revolution.

"You should just see how low & dirty these people are(Refering to the Islamists). He [fecilitator would select who to send for Jihad. That person would then leave to Turkey. From Turkey, he would talk to him on the phone telling him to go to Antakya and meet with Abu Ahmad. And we know that the guys in Syria know where Abu Ahmad is. Abu Ahmad would then deliver them at the Antakya border to Sheikh Abu Hadi. Abu Hadi would then enter the first point of the so-called Free Syrian army and goes for Jihad. Then, Abu Hadi goes back to Turkey during heavy combat to stay in a dreamhouse. " Tunisian ex-jihadist tells his story

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLWLf7ubjXQ

They don't punish them. They revoke their citizenship instead which doesn't change the fact that these jihadists have blood on their hands and needs to be jailed. Yes the European countries are very happy if the jihadists leave and go to the Middle-east, that way, they won't have any jihadist in their countries.