WHO IS IN CONTROL?
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Peace,
Read the Qurans explanation of predestination here
Anything that happens on earth, or to you, has already been recorded, even before the creation.
This is easy for GOD to do.Moses said to him, "Can I follow you, that you may teach me some of the knowledge and the guidance bestowed upon you?"
He said, "You cannot stand to be with me.
"How can you stand that which you do not comprehend?"
?Every affliction that falls on the earth or yourselves, already exists in a Book before it is brought into being by us.
No doubt that is easy for Allah to accomplish?. (Surah al-Hadid, 5722)He said, "You will find me, GOD willing, patient. I will not disobey any command you give me."
He said, "If you follow me, then you shall not ask me about anything, unless I choose to tell you
about it."So they went. When they boarded a ship, he bore a hole in it. He said, "Did you bore a hole in it to
drown its people? You have committed something terrible."He said, "Did I not say that you cannot stand to be with me?"
He said, "I am sorry. Do not punish me for my forgetfulness; do not be too harsh with me."
So they went. When they met a young boy, he killed him. He said, "Why did you kill such an innocent
soul, who did not kill another soul? You have committed something horrendous."He said, "Did I not tell you that you cannot stand to be with me?"
He said, "If I ask you about anything else, then do not keep me with you. You have seen enough
apologies from me."So they went. When they reached a certain community, they asked the people for food, but they
refused to host them. Soon, they found a wall about to collapse, and he fixed it. He said, "You could have
demanded a wage for that!"There is a Good Reason for Everything
He said, "Now we have to part company. But I will explain to you everything you could not stand.
"As for the ship, it belonged to poor fishermen, and I wanted to render it defective. There was a king
coming after them, who was confiscating every ship, forcibly."As for the boy, his parents were good believers, and we saw that he was going to burden them with
his transgression and disbelief.*"We willed that your Lord substitute in his place another son; one who is better in righteousness and kindness.
"As for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the city. Under it, there was a treasure that belonged
to them. Because their father was a righteous man, your Lord wanted them to grow up and attain full strength,
then extract their treasure. Such is mercy from your Lord. I did none of that of my own volition. This is the
explanation of the things you could not stand."Part of 3/154
........................... Say Had you remained in your houses, those for whom slaughter was ordained would certainly
have gone forth to the places where they would be slain...................................................................God bless
peace
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I'm just confused please help, I always thought we controlled our lives our death and our happiness and how we lived will determine our fate whether we go to hell or heaven but i also thanked God for guiding me when i needed him. so how does this work our we in control or not
God controls everything, but we have to "make evident" to God through our obedience to the commands in the Quran, that it is worth for God to show us the "straight path", ie. the path that . . .
there will be
(1) no fear concerning them <- what else do people want ?
(2) nor will they grieve
10.62not the path that Allah. . .
will progressively lead them
from where they do not know
7.182Because. . .
They deceive Allah and those who believe
but they deceive not except themselves
and perceive not.
2.9Therefore , "control over our life" is connected to the understanding and implementation of "sincerity" to Allah; based on the "evidence" of our "understanding of the Quran" and "our action" to comply with our understanding , and not what we "say" but "do not do".
Great is hatred in the sight of Allah
that you say what you do not do <- ie. they are the Deceivers
61.3These people think to deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves.
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Salamun Alaikum
On this context, the below excerpt is worth pondering over
The one who sees inaction in action, and action in inaction, is a wise person. Such a person is a saint and has accomplished everything. To see inaction in action and vice versa is to understand that the Lord does all the work indirectly through His power by using us. He is the inactive actor. We are actively inactive, because we cannot do anything without the flow of His power. Therefore, we are not the doer, just an instrument in His hands. A person, whose desires have become selfless by being roasted in the fire of self-knowledge, is called a sage by the wise. The one who has abandoned selfish attachment to the fruits of work, and remains ever content and dependent on no one but God, such a person --- though engaged in activity --- does nothing at all, and incurs no reaction from actions, good or bad. The one who is free from desires, whose mind and senses are under control, and who has renounced all proprietorship, does not incur sin --- the reaction from actions --- by doing bodily action. Content with whatever gain comes naturally by His will, unaffected by pairs of opposites, free from envy, calm in success and failure; though engaged in work, such an active-saint is not bound by action. The one who is free from attachment, whose mind is fixed in self-knowledge, who does work as a service to the Lord, all action bonds of such a philanthropic person dissolves away. God, the eternal Being, shall be realized by the one who considers everything as a manifestation or an act of God.
Any guess what is the source of the above?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
The one who sees inaction in action, and action in inaction, is a wise person. Such a person is a saint and has accomplished everything. To see inaction in action and vice versa is to understand that the Lord does all the work indirectly through His power by using us. He is the inactive actor. We are actively inactive, because we cannot do anything without the flow of His power. Therefore, we are not the doer, just an instrument in His hands. A person, whose desires have become selfless by being roasted in the fire of self-knowledge, is called a sage by the wise. The one who has abandoned selfish attachment to the fruits of work, and remains ever content and dependent on no one but God, such a person --- though engaged in activity --- does nothing at all, and incurs no reaction from actions, good or bad. The one who is free from desires, whose mind and senses are under control, and who has renounced all proprietorship, does not incur sin --- the reaction from actions --- by doing bodily action. Content with whatever gain comes naturally by His will, unaffected by pairs of opposites, free from envy, calm in success and failure; though engaged in work, such an active-saint is not bound by action. The one who is free from attachment, whose mind is fixed in self-knowledge, who does work as a service to the Lord, all action bonds of such a philanthropic person dissolves away. God, the eternal Being, shall be realized by the one who considers everything as a manifestation or an act of God.
Any guess what is the source of the above?
A mixture of
- Tao The Ching by Lao Tse
- Bhagavad Ghita
- Siddharta's teaching
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Read the Qurans explanation of predestination here
Anything that happens on earth, or to you, has already been recorded, even before the creation.
This is easy for GOD to do.Yes, actually that verse from Quran which initially shape my opinion on predeterministic world.
I tried not to quote that verse on this forum just because I don't want people here to believe on it merely because
"it's on the Quran, thus it's must be true".And also to show "There are truth outside the Quran and God's enlightenment reached those who never read the Quran".
Einstein reached the same conclusion by 'observing the universe'.
And so does Lao Tse, Siddhartha, Krishna, Jesus, Moses (as told in the Quran), Unnamed Moses's friend on the Quran who teached Moses about the 'ultimate wisdom' and millions of others. They reached the same conclusion through 'their own unique ways'.Salam / Peace
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Peace,
5722 No misfortune can happen on the earth, or in yourselves, except already decreed, before We bring it about. This is easy for God to do.
The passage invites to much conjecture about that your actions do not matter at all and it invites to passivity. Of course God already knows everything or God would not be perfect. God plans something an nothing can prevent it. But actions matter and it could be that God has made like in those computer games where you get alternative endings depending on what choice you make.
God bless you
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Yes, actually that verse from Quran which initially shape my opinion on predeterministic world.
Peace Jafar,
If one was to observe the Quran they would notice that there are "unseen" realities that we
are not a part of, without being too technical, time is the trickster that must be understood. A simple
example would be, if you arrived at a location a day ahead of me you would know what was there before I
who arrived later. This is a complicated subject, but if we put belief first the question becomes
"How does God accomplish/do such things" conversely Doubt leaves us with "that is not possible even if God
says so"P.S. The prophet Moses teacher was part of a reality that Moses did not share i.e., the unseen. 18/66-82
God bless
peace
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The passage invites to much conjecture about that your actions do not matter at all and it invites to passivity.
Action performed by anyone or anything does matter, I don't see anything that state otherwise.
Perhaps.... it's actually your own perception that created such conjecture within you.
But actions matter and it could be that God has made like in those computer games where you get alternative endings depending on what choice you make.
No I don't think so.. as all action performed by anyone or anything is known.
The metaphor of "computer games" is not correct for this example because computer games was written by human to be played by other human. The human programmer created an AI (Artificial Intelligence) which action or algorithm is 100% known to him while the action of the human player is unknown to him. Thus there's still a missing information from the perspective of the human programmer.
Unless the computer games are being played entirely by the programmer's AI.
The programmer shall know it all.Explaining in more details
Example of such case might be, a football game match where both team are being played by the computer.
The programmer can easily know the end result score of such match given he's also being supplied by the time on when does such match started.
Time is important in computer game as that's the seed for computer to generate "pseudo-random" number.Based on that 'random' number, the AI algorithm shall compute different result which resulted in different action performed by the AI "sprites" (in this case the AI controlled football's player) thus avoiding the feeling of 'predictability' if the games is being played by the human player.
And if you play out the computer vs computer match, it will yield different result every time.
But not if it's being played at the same time.As you can see, even in computer world, there's no such thing as 'true random'..
Everything in this universe is already known by it's 'programmer'.
Salam / Peace
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Peace Jafar,
You surely know what I mean with the game allegory. Sure everything is known to God even if given alternatives. But we are faced with similar choices. I only mentioned this to have a reasonable allegory. I did not ask you to delve that deeply into how programming works and algorithms of randomness.
What I wanted to convey was, no matter already predetermined by God, is that we must be aware that every little choice that we make does play a role because this is how we are made to perceive things. We are part of a test and if there were no meaningful alternatives then it would be redundant, do you not think so? The story would not get in motion without a purpose or creation would be redundant if you see what I mean.
God bless you
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let's put down some facts. nothing happen to you except what ALLAH wills
every deed small or great is written before it comes into being.... whoa... that means my next sentence is....
...
..
.What??!?!?!??!!?
giveuphail ALLAH Akbar I sumbit to the lord of worlds.
Salaam,
I do not agree with your conclusion. nope
Salaam,
Bender -
Peace Jafar,
You surely know what I mean with the game allegory. Sure everything is known to God even if given alternatives. But we are faced with similar choices. I only mentioned this to have a reasonable allegory. I did not ask you to delve that deeply into how programming works and algorithms of randomness.
I need to and I think it's beneficial to share as well, thus everybody knows that there's no such thing as 'randomness', or in Einstein's lingo God doesn't play dice.
That's why it's called "Pseudo-Random" algorithm, meaning it's not random at all.Feel free to test by playing simpler games, a chess game for example.. computer vs computer and start the game in exactly the same time, up to milliseconds.
Then every moves in all the games will be exactly 100% the same.What I wanted to convey was, no matter already predetermined by God, is that we must be aware that every little choice that we make does play a role because this is how we are made to perceive things. We are part of a test and if there were no meaningful alternatives then it would be redundant, do you not think so? The story would not get in motion without a purpose or creation would be redundant if you see what I mean.
A test where the answer is already known, yes..
Some options where the choice is already known, yes..Human does need a purpose, and they're being assigned to specific purpose and so does other beings and things..
In similar manner as those "Football player" in computer football games..
They do have purpose, they do have a role, they do have option (whether to kick the ball or hold it for few seconds) yet given the algorithm is already known, the programmer know exactly what his/her football player will do anyway. And so does what other football player (with different role and different option) will do..The most beneficial perspective / view for understanding this fact is that to not regret anything that has happened in the past.
As it all happened as it was supposed to happened.. all of it.. -
Peace Jafar,
Fathom a game that was programmed by God and it is no human-made random A.I. but a real controlled intelligence by God. God controls everything in the environment and like a programmer can control every pixel God can control every atom. And God has made scripts that run by certain set triggers which cause the fate-already-written to happen. I am not sure if you agree that one can philosophize that way?
God bless you
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Fathom a game that was programmed by God and it is no human-made random A.I. but a real controlled intelligence by God.
There's no such thing as random.
Not in computer or real life.
Random is a phenomena due to human limited capability when human failed to see any pattern.
In truth, it's not random at all..When you throw a dice in computer game of monopoly, you'll see it as 'random', because you don't see any pattern and you cannot guess what shall the dice shows. In truth it's not random at all.
God controls everything in the environment and like a programmer can control every pixel God can control every atom. And God has made scripts that run by certain set triggers which cause the fate-already-written to happen. I am not sure if you agree that one can philosophize that way?
God knows and controls everything in all environment, period.
Otherwise he/it's not God.Having said that, you're free to believe whatever you want on this matter as your believe doesn't really matter.
Don't worry, you'll not be going to hell just because of this, or be punished for all of eternity.. bwahahaha ))
The believe or not believe on this matter doesn't cause any suffering to anyone or anything.If you think that you can 'hide' what your 'will' shall be in the future or even now from your programmer.
Then let you (or anyone else) believe as such.
Because, truly, it doesn't matter.In the same manner, a game programmer can program his/her AI to think that the programmer doesn't exist or there's something that the AI can hide from the programmer. But in all reality it was the programmer who programmed such 'thinking' in the first place
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Peace All.
You are in control for all the decisions you make Free will
GOD is in control of everything Predestination/Omnipotence.
Free will
Can you choose when and where to be born?
Can you choose what is to be created?
Can you choose your shape/form/design?
Can you choose and control your organs?
Can you choose immortality? .... Why not?
So what is left for you to choose? Why?
To answer these questions you need to ask one very important question
Are you qualified/knowledgeable/capable ... of making these choices?For example one cannot just choose to be a "doctor" he/she needs to acquire the skills first!!
So "Free will" is limited for a very good reason. You find yourself a human being and you make the decisions of how to lead your life according to your situation. You are in control of your life as far as you are concerned.
Predestination
The One qualified to do all the choosing is in total control. He has the "complete knowledge ". We cannot question what He does or why He does it. As far as He is concerned He runs everything.
For example He has chosen not to force anyone to "believe"
Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers?
He is qualified to do whatever He wants.
We need to concentrate on making the right choices with our limited "free will" for a very good reason.
He has explained all this in his message.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
Peace Jafar,
I give up because you seem not to be able to think allegorically and say things that are obvious already. The issue is not about any randomness and I never said anything happens randomly. Read more carefully or I may have to become better at elaboration?
And in the allegory I was using the game as a way of presenting how things could be working, ie. With the script. Verily God could edit the script on-the-fly at any time and any moment though as you make choices where the given outcome is no longer viable. That is what I meant with that a scenario is reached based on your taken movements. But it is quite simple because it is if you do good then you get good or evil then you get evil. But what I meant is that fate is already predetermined which theoretically means that if God has planned that a car accident happens when you are 25 years old then it will happen. It is a programmed script with the event to run at a certain day and time. You accident will happen and nothing can prevent it, except that God has control and can divert you from the crash should The Master wish.
I hope that you see that I am more intelligent in the discussion than you rebuke me of in the previous post. There are no logical fallacies here.
God bless you
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Peace All.
Another point that we need to grasp with this "who is in control" is the fact that most think they are rich or clever/intelligent....etc, because somehow they acquired this by themselves.
That choice was never given to anyone, otherwise everybody will choose to be rich/intelligent/...etc.
Before that, we granted Abraham his guidance and understanding, for we were fully aware of him.
The One who is in total control grants whatever He wants to whomever He wants.
We need to humble ourselves, stick to trying to be good/make the right decision with whatever GOD has granted us.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace All.
Another point that we need to grasp with this "who is in control" is the fact that most think they are rich or clever/intelligent....etc, because somehow they acquired this by themselves.
That choice was never given to anyone, otherwise everybody will choose to be rich/intelligent/...etc.
Before that, we granted Abraham his guidance and understanding, for we were fully aware of him.
The One who is in total control grants whatever He wants to whomever He wants.
We need to humble ourselves, stick to trying to be good/make the right decision with whatever GOD has granted us.
http//3.bp.blogspot.com/--h4eLCX9klE/UZHjEBYfY2I/AAAAAAAADoo/W5bcUQjtXls/s1600/thumb-up-facebook-emoticon-like-symbol.png
Peace. May Allah bless you, brother.
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And in the allegory I was using the game as a way of presenting how things could be working, ie. With the script. Verily God could edit the script on-the-fly at any time and any moment though as you make choices where the given outcome is no longer viable.
Well the script is never being edited on-the-fly and there is no bug either.
But it is quite simple because it is if you do good then you get good or evil then you get evil.
It's the rule being put inside the game, in football game allegory; the rule of if you won a match you'll get prize.
But what I meant is that fate is already predetermined which theoretically means that if God has planned that a car accident happens when you are 25 years old then it will happen.
True
It is a programmed script with the event to run at a certain day and time. You accident will happen and nothing can prevent it, except that God has control and can divert you from the crash should The Master wish.
Not necessarily a 'script', it just a consequences from continuous series of events.
If the record says the accident shall happen then it shall happened in the exact detailed manner.
All of my 'will' and any other being's will shall be in symphony to make that happened at the exact time and place.
The 'accident' and my death will also trigger another continuous series of events which shall be totally different if I survived that accident or the accident never happened.I hope that you see that I am more intelligent in the discussion than you rebuke me of in the previous post. There are no logical fallacies here.
I didn't rebuke you, I just give you a choice...
It's ok to believe you have a 'free' will.
Or in other words It's ok to not believing in a pre-deterministic universe.Because from predeterministic view point.
It has been predetermined that some being shall not accept predeterministic view.The main issue here I think is human refusal of not having a 'free' will.
Because he/she 'experienced' that he/she has one.
Well 'free' will does exist, although purely from the being perspective.
Just like Lizard have free will purely from the lizard perspective, when he sees something he has choices of whether to eat, fight, flee or f&&k, that's how reptilian brain works. From the lizard's own perspective, it has a free will.But in absolute reality perspective, all will is already known, from lizard to elephant, from human to alien, and all will shall will in accordance to the plan.
The plan is very detailed, including at what time, which cell in which location shall replicate. (for example) -
Peace,
Okay Jafar. You believe there is no free will to will? You see it is very controversial idea because then the reason we are here is quite redundant as it serves no purpose. God knows the liars without testing in that philosophy. But that is perhaps a difference in perception between you and me? You believe that everything is already settled and decided?
I believe it is the planning and events that will occur are already set out before the creation. And God is aware of every little equation of difference in the path that we undertake and can adjust the temporary illusion accordingly. But I believe that your choices do matter and are not predetermined but part of the test. To see how much true faith you had underneath it all and how patient and how much you worked to harmonize yourself with God. That way I believe that this is not decided yet and it is weird to have a judgment day with deeds evaluated on scales (probably allegorically) if your actions were already known. That is why I meant that God will control things "on-the-fly", if you get what I mean?
And I am aware that nothing can avail against God. And The Master can just say be and it is. But do you deny that God can change events "on-the-fly", is that too hard for God to do?
I see now that my game allegory did not work for you because you did not understand the similitude and compare it only superfiscally with whatever technology we have invented.
So we have free will to choose to follow God or we have a choice to disobey and just simply live our lives and think that we will just die and cease to exist and let Satan be a guide.
God bless you