WHO IS IN CONTROL?
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let's put down some facts. nothing happen to you except what ALLAH wills
every deed small or great is written before it comes into being.... whoa... that means my next sentence is....
...
..
.What??!?!?!??!!?
giveuphail ALLAH Akbar I sumbit to the lord of worlds.
Salaam,
I do not agree with your conclusion. nope
Salaam,
Bender -
Peace Jafar,
You surely know what I mean with the game allegory. Sure everything is known to God even if given alternatives. But we are faced with similar choices. I only mentioned this to have a reasonable allegory. I did not ask you to delve that deeply into how programming works and algorithms of randomness.
I need to and I think it's beneficial to share as well, thus everybody knows that there's no such thing as 'randomness', or in Einstein's lingo God doesn't play dice.
That's why it's called "Pseudo-Random" algorithm, meaning it's not random at all.Feel free to test by playing simpler games, a chess game for example.. computer vs computer and start the game in exactly the same time, up to milliseconds.
Then every moves in all the games will be exactly 100% the same.What I wanted to convey was, no matter already predetermined by God, is that we must be aware that every little choice that we make does play a role because this is how we are made to perceive things. We are part of a test and if there were no meaningful alternatives then it would be redundant, do you not think so? The story would not get in motion without a purpose or creation would be redundant if you see what I mean.
A test where the answer is already known, yes..
Some options where the choice is already known, yes..Human does need a purpose, and they're being assigned to specific purpose and so does other beings and things..
In similar manner as those "Football player" in computer football games..
They do have purpose, they do have a role, they do have option (whether to kick the ball or hold it for few seconds) yet given the algorithm is already known, the programmer know exactly what his/her football player will do anyway. And so does what other football player (with different role and different option) will do..The most beneficial perspective / view for understanding this fact is that to not regret anything that has happened in the past.
As it all happened as it was supposed to happened.. all of it.. -
Peace Jafar,
Fathom a game that was programmed by God and it is no human-made random A.I. but a real controlled intelligence by God. God controls everything in the environment and like a programmer can control every pixel God can control every atom. And God has made scripts that run by certain set triggers which cause the fate-already-written to happen. I am not sure if you agree that one can philosophize that way?
God bless you
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Fathom a game that was programmed by God and it is no human-made random A.I. but a real controlled intelligence by God.
There's no such thing as random.
Not in computer or real life.
Random is a phenomena due to human limited capability when human failed to see any pattern.
In truth, it's not random at all..When you throw a dice in computer game of monopoly, you'll see it as 'random', because you don't see any pattern and you cannot guess what shall the dice shows. In truth it's not random at all.
God controls everything in the environment and like a programmer can control every pixel God can control every atom. And God has made scripts that run by certain set triggers which cause the fate-already-written to happen. I am not sure if you agree that one can philosophize that way?
God knows and controls everything in all environment, period.
Otherwise he/it's not God.Having said that, you're free to believe whatever you want on this matter as your believe doesn't really matter.
Don't worry, you'll not be going to hell just because of this, or be punished for all of eternity.. bwahahaha ))
The believe or not believe on this matter doesn't cause any suffering to anyone or anything.If you think that you can 'hide' what your 'will' shall be in the future or even now from your programmer.
Then let you (or anyone else) believe as such.
Because, truly, it doesn't matter.In the same manner, a game programmer can program his/her AI to think that the programmer doesn't exist or there's something that the AI can hide from the programmer. But in all reality it was the programmer who programmed such 'thinking' in the first place
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Peace All.
You are in control for all the decisions you make Free will
GOD is in control of everything Predestination/Omnipotence.
Free will
Can you choose when and where to be born?
Can you choose what is to be created?
Can you choose your shape/form/design?
Can you choose and control your organs?
Can you choose immortality? .... Why not?
So what is left for you to choose? Why?
To answer these questions you need to ask one very important question
Are you qualified/knowledgeable/capable ... of making these choices?For example one cannot just choose to be a "doctor" he/she needs to acquire the skills first!!
So "Free will" is limited for a very good reason. You find yourself a human being and you make the decisions of how to lead your life according to your situation. You are in control of your life as far as you are concerned.
Predestination
The One qualified to do all the choosing is in total control. He has the "complete knowledge ". We cannot question what He does or why He does it. As far as He is concerned He runs everything.
For example He has chosen not to force anyone to "believe"
Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers?
He is qualified to do whatever He wants.
We need to concentrate on making the right choices with our limited "free will" for a very good reason.
He has explained all this in his message.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
Peace Jafar,
I give up because you seem not to be able to think allegorically and say things that are obvious already. The issue is not about any randomness and I never said anything happens randomly. Read more carefully or I may have to become better at elaboration?
And in the allegory I was using the game as a way of presenting how things could be working, ie. With the script. Verily God could edit the script on-the-fly at any time and any moment though as you make choices where the given outcome is no longer viable. That is what I meant with that a scenario is reached based on your taken movements. But it is quite simple because it is if you do good then you get good or evil then you get evil. But what I meant is that fate is already predetermined which theoretically means that if God has planned that a car accident happens when you are 25 years old then it will happen. It is a programmed script with the event to run at a certain day and time. You accident will happen and nothing can prevent it, except that God has control and can divert you from the crash should The Master wish.
I hope that you see that I am more intelligent in the discussion than you rebuke me of in the previous post. There are no logical fallacies here.
God bless you
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Peace All.
Another point that we need to grasp with this "who is in control" is the fact that most think they are rich or clever/intelligent....etc, because somehow they acquired this by themselves.
That choice was never given to anyone, otherwise everybody will choose to be rich/intelligent/...etc.
Before that, we granted Abraham his guidance and understanding, for we were fully aware of him.
The One who is in total control grants whatever He wants to whomever He wants.
We need to humble ourselves, stick to trying to be good/make the right decision with whatever GOD has granted us.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace All.
Another point that we need to grasp with this "who is in control" is the fact that most think they are rich or clever/intelligent....etc, because somehow they acquired this by themselves.
That choice was never given to anyone, otherwise everybody will choose to be rich/intelligent/...etc.
Before that, we granted Abraham his guidance and understanding, for we were fully aware of him.
The One who is in total control grants whatever He wants to whomever He wants.
We need to humble ourselves, stick to trying to be good/make the right decision with whatever GOD has granted us.
http//3.bp.blogspot.com/--h4eLCX9klE/UZHjEBYfY2I/AAAAAAAADoo/W5bcUQjtXls/s1600/thumb-up-facebook-emoticon-like-symbol.png
Peace. May Allah bless you, brother.
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And in the allegory I was using the game as a way of presenting how things could be working, ie. With the script. Verily God could edit the script on-the-fly at any time and any moment though as you make choices where the given outcome is no longer viable.
Well the script is never being edited on-the-fly and there is no bug either.
But it is quite simple because it is if you do good then you get good or evil then you get evil.
It's the rule being put inside the game, in football game allegory; the rule of if you won a match you'll get prize.
But what I meant is that fate is already predetermined which theoretically means that if God has planned that a car accident happens when you are 25 years old then it will happen.
True
It is a programmed script with the event to run at a certain day and time. You accident will happen and nothing can prevent it, except that God has control and can divert you from the crash should The Master wish.
Not necessarily a 'script', it just a consequences from continuous series of events.
If the record says the accident shall happen then it shall happened in the exact detailed manner.
All of my 'will' and any other being's will shall be in symphony to make that happened at the exact time and place.
The 'accident' and my death will also trigger another continuous series of events which shall be totally different if I survived that accident or the accident never happened.I hope that you see that I am more intelligent in the discussion than you rebuke me of in the previous post. There are no logical fallacies here.
I didn't rebuke you, I just give you a choice...
It's ok to believe you have a 'free' will.
Or in other words It's ok to not believing in a pre-deterministic universe.Because from predeterministic view point.
It has been predetermined that some being shall not accept predeterministic view.The main issue here I think is human refusal of not having a 'free' will.
Because he/she 'experienced' that he/she has one.
Well 'free' will does exist, although purely from the being perspective.
Just like Lizard have free will purely from the lizard perspective, when he sees something he has choices of whether to eat, fight, flee or f&&k, that's how reptilian brain works. From the lizard's own perspective, it has a free will.But in absolute reality perspective, all will is already known, from lizard to elephant, from human to alien, and all will shall will in accordance to the plan.
The plan is very detailed, including at what time, which cell in which location shall replicate. (for example) -
Peace,
Okay Jafar. You believe there is no free will to will? You see it is very controversial idea because then the reason we are here is quite redundant as it serves no purpose. God knows the liars without testing in that philosophy. But that is perhaps a difference in perception between you and me? You believe that everything is already settled and decided?
I believe it is the planning and events that will occur are already set out before the creation. And God is aware of every little equation of difference in the path that we undertake and can adjust the temporary illusion accordingly. But I believe that your choices do matter and are not predetermined but part of the test. To see how much true faith you had underneath it all and how patient and how much you worked to harmonize yourself with God. That way I believe that this is not decided yet and it is weird to have a judgment day with deeds evaluated on scales (probably allegorically) if your actions were already known. That is why I meant that God will control things "on-the-fly", if you get what I mean?
And I am aware that nothing can avail against God. And The Master can just say be and it is. But do you deny that God can change events "on-the-fly", is that too hard for God to do?
I see now that my game allegory did not work for you because you did not understand the similitude and compare it only superfiscally with whatever technology we have invented.
So we have free will to choose to follow God or we have a choice to disobey and just simply live our lives and think that we will just die and cease to exist and let Satan be a guide.
God bless you
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Okay Jafar. You believe there is no free will to will? You see it is very controversial idea because then the reason we are here is quite redundant as it serves no purpose. But that is perhaps a difference in perception between you and me? You believe that everything is already settled and decided?
Yes that's the difference between you and me.
And it's okay to be different.
The difference is caused by perspective.Whether 'Free' will exist? It depends on one perspective.
Will does exist, from human's will up to insect's will.
Whether it's free? It depends on one perspective.Actually if we want to take this 'deeper', Whether 'we' actually exist, It also depends on one perspective.
God knows the liars without testing in that philosophy
Yes, God knows the 'anything' before 'the test' has been completed, because he knows the results of that 'test' will be.
Remember that you're not God, thus there is always things about God that you do not understand.
Human need an objective, while God is free of need.That's the essence of the verse which has been cited by Hawk above.
For God, time and space is not a boundary to know things, every-thing, every-where, every-time is always known.
Including being's will, being's action and all chain-reaction of series of actions.You believe that everything is already settled and decided?
Yes, remember given no time dimension boundary, grammar doesn't really matter.
So let me guess your 'free' will here.
Based on your 'past record', I can predict that you'll post another response.But since I put that 'prediction' in this post, your 'ego' starts to kicked in, as you don't want your 'will' to be not 'free' or 'known' by me.
That makes me somehow in 'control' over you.
And to prove that I'm wrong on that prediction you might be thinking of not posting a response )Salam / Peace
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Peace,
Not so much ego. But it is just about the details on how we perceive things. We do not know about God while God knows all about us. But I yet believe that we are tested and God has not determined our faith and reliance yet. To me this would be redundant if God already had decided. Time is an creation to this illusion as you said yourself, but that does not mean God is not using the creation to test the souls that are in that creation. It is a very complicated thing to discuss because we cannot really research beyond the world as we perceive it but we can infer things through logical deduction (just as human science works either way.. lol).
You might believe that you are in control of anything, but God is the one in true control of everything. But if I chose to reply I am responsible for that deed and no one else. If I rise a waraxe at you I am likewise responsible for that action too. We are all responsible for how we live our lives and behave in it. We cannot excuse ourselves from this when we stand in the courtroom of God (allegorical description) and say "we did as you had destined for us".
God already knows or not knows it is irrelevant to us in this case. We need to be mindful of our lives as we proceed. In the end God was the only one in true control of the events that occur although the actions and mischief that came from us we are responsible for ourselves. All good is from God while the bad things are from ourselves. We live within the foundation that God laid and in the system which God "programmed" for this test and we are mere actors in it like role players with ultimate seriousness in whatever actions that we make in it. But the storyline God is responsible for and even if we think we are in control then God could do whatever The Masted pleased. If God (allegorically) said; "drop dead" then you would drop dead and no question about it. Commit suicide then you are responsible for that action or kill anyone else it is you who will be held responsible and God was not to blame.
God would not plan for you to commit suicide because then God would do evil. God does not plan evil.
I think there is a confusion in this matter of control.
But in the end it is just about specifics as long as you do not become or are a passivist who do nothing to improve the situation for yourself or others. Then I think you are a bit confused.
God bless you
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A mixture of
- Tao The Ching by Lao Tse
- Bhagavad Ghita
- Siddharta's teaching
It is from Bhagavad Ghita. Good guess.
Although I do not consider any text outside Qur'an as "authoritative" the quoted passage has a very useful insight - to consider oneself as a "tool" in God's plan. Give your best to be the most useful tool in God's plan and rely on God for the result. For me this sums up our "should be" approach to life which is determined by God.
One more note before I take leave from this issue - in my understanding "God does not plan evil" is a misunderstanding... rather the correct statement should be... God is not bound by the human idea of good and evil. In the story of Moses and the "Wise Guy" in Surah Kahf, we have seen that the concept of good and evil is different for someone with knowledge of future. Allah clearly put in Qur'an that in the torture experienced by the children of Israel at the hands of Pharaoh was a "test from their Master". It has been also said that Iblis has been granted respite till Yawm-al-Kiamah to misguide mankind with Allah's authorization. Furthermore in 2253 Allah says that if He willed people would not have fought war - but Allah does whatever He intends. All these suggest that everything which is happening (good or evil) is a part of Allah's Master Plan.
I do believe that our every action is predestined by God. But that does not take away anything from our free will. Our free will itself is merely a reflection of God's will.. if we intend good it means God has intended good for us... if we intend bad it means God has intended bad for us. So let's rely on God and give our best.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
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It is from Bhagavad Ghita. Good guess.
Although I do not consider any text outside Qur'an as "authoritative" the quoted passage has a very useful insight
That's the 'good thing' about easterner tradition, they're never authoritative a.k.a dogmatic in the first place.
Very much similar with today's science tradition.
You accept it good, you reject it fine.. you have a better idea excellent!As for me I don't consider any text to be authoritative.
Our free will itself is merely a reflection of God's will.. if we intend good it means God has intended good for us... if we intend bad it means God has intended bad for us. So let's rely on God and give our best.
True, thus how 'free' is it?
Given the will of human is purely dependent on external influence.
Or in other words, human's will can be easily influenced by external factor.
The above is a proven fact.Such as... are you sure you're free from external influence on your "authoritative text" opinion above?
Or it's actually coming from external influence that you adopted into 'your own free will'. -
Such as... are you sure you're free from external influence on your "authoritative text" opinion above?
Or it's actually coming from external influence that you adopted into 'your own free will'.Salamun Alaikum brother.
The term authoritative has several meanings. When I used the term "authoritative" I intended the meaning "clearly accurate or knowledgeable (Ref Merriam Webster)" - not "Dogmatic" or something that has to be followed blindly. I believe Al Qur?an is authoritative because I find it - to my best understanding accurate and knowledgeable and indeed I have observed many signs which has given me a firm conviction that this is a divinely inspired text. There are certain aspects of it which I do not understand.. but I have the patience to wait for its meaning to be revealed.
I also believe that Al Qur'an is only supposed to be a guidance and a reminder - a book to ponder over; not to be followed blindly. I DO NOT believe accepting or believing a certain "interpretation" from Qur'an is mandatory or binding. What is mandatory is that we do not suppress/repress (Arabic k-f-r) our conscience - rather we accept our conscience and our rationality as the will of our Creator and thereby submit to Him. Any interpretation of Al Qur'an that is contrary to my conscience is by definition rejectable. If I repress my conscience and take any book blindly (even the Qur'an) - it would be equivalent of taking angels (i.e. Gabriel) and Prophets (i.e. Muhammad pbh) as my Master. Would I repress (faith) after I have been submissive (muslim)?
379 It is not to be for any (living) being that Allah would give him the book, the wisdom and the prophet-hood, (but) later he would say to mankind, ?Be slaves to me from beside Allah.? But rather (he would say), ?Be devotees of the Master because you would be teaching the book, and because you would be studying it.?
380 And he would not order you that you take the angels and the prophets as masters. Would he order you to repress (faith) after that you have been submissive (َ?
(My personal translation - cross checking is strongly recommended. Emphasis added)
And God's will - is not an "external influence" to me. Rather it is an "internal influence." The way I think, I feel, I see, I believe, I will and I act is all manifestation of Allah's will. When I take any decision or choice, rely on my moral judgment or use my intellect I am merely channeling the will and power of my Master through my thoughts and actions. This is how my Master has created me - and I submit to Him by being myself.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
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yo I came up with a chart to more perfectly answer this question please hold this post until I find a scanner and can post a link serious it has math and physic and what not it's prove were all held by fate or simply fighting against it (fate being ALLAH's will).
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All of the discussion relate to one view of "time".
A nice video which discuss the matter.. yet without 'clear conclusion', due to the inherent complexity of a presumably simple concept called 'time'.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ6Gb3iZ1LoAnd God's will - is not an "external influence" to me. Rather it is an "internal influence."
An interesting statement, which is true.
When space and time do not exist or space and time viewed as a 'whole', there's no such thing as external internal or here there or past present future.
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wait wait
the question is
"WHAT do we control?"
we all meet with common fate death going to the bathroom and such but the true question is what aspects do we control?
we are not simply being dragged along through the experience of life theirs an aspect of control.
do we control prospective?
do we control reaction?
what if you lose control? what are you losing control of?i don't want to argue but i think the soul is the control figuring out what you control may give you a better understanding of soul and heart.
also i did not find a scanner so the graph i can't post but it's something simple like
_ +_= 19
or
what ever you choose which is already know = 19
you don't control the whole side of the equation you only can input two different variables
1+18=19
or you can resist ALLAH's will
2+18=19
but the simply laws of the universe ALLAH has created stop you from thinking of that or simply prevent you from doing things like flying or double jumping.lol
(consider 1 as a jump to a certain height and two a unexplainable super jump or to jump again on mid-air)let's say 18 is the fall or y axis of the jump and landing you always land on the x axis because of gravity.
but ALLAH has placed gravity so your real equation is this (-1)+2+18=19
the minus one being the truth or simply the reason why your wrong or can not fly or can not double jump...
19 being the number of angel over hell... you die from the fall and go to hell for killing yourself.hail i submit willing to the will of ALLAH we always meet what ever end he wills for us to me anything inn between is but a respite.