Non-observance of Sawm
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Peace,
I still interpret the related passages to refer to traditional fasting, but I have doubts that they really talk about a full month but simply over full moon for a few days. Some days of fasting can be a health benefit as well as time to rise the thoughts on those who do not have money for food, but I feel it is a bit extreme to ask for about 30 days of fasting in a row.
Remnants of fasting practices remain in Christianity and they suggest a few days of fasting.
Anyway, it is perhaps time for me to delve into this subject myself as it seems to be important.
God bless you
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Anyway, it is perhaps time for me to delve into this subject myself as it seems to be important.
I'm right there with you, time to do some research. I foresee more fasting per-year in my future.
peace
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Peace,
I still perform the marathon fasts of 30 days because I yet have no convincing alternative interpretation which sufficiently falsifies the traditional way, but it would sure be a relief if we could solve the puzzle at some point. Intuition tells me traditional interpretation is wrong and often that feeling is right for me, but I do not want to take any chances. I usually have around 70% probability or so on my "gut-feelings".
My reason tells me the correct length ought to be some days at most. It messes up the metabolism and it is hard to have a physically demanding job, really hard. And it feels rough to use your short vacation time on something that exhausting.
And the other "Abrahamic" faiths have some days at most on their fasts. Something is fishy about traditional "islam's" fasting.
And God did not want to make our faith difficult and interestingly that phrase is mentioned in conjunction with Ramadan. It is a bit ironical to me. I still think it is while the full moon is up and around those days once per year. But need more definite reassuring "proof".
But unlike many other folks around here I have no doubt that it talks about traditional abstention from food and water.
God bless you
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Peace existential,
In fact it might be that the word Ramadhan refers to the scenario when the moon is having a very strong light emission from the reflection of the sun beams. It is traditonally interpreted as scorching heat, but it might refer to how the moon looks during full moon. May just be conjecture and may need to look deeper into that. But a full moon looks like it its surface is scorched in my opinion.
It says recitation (Quran) was revealed during it, but it could be that God timed the intervals between revelations once per lunar month as it was gradually inspired to the receiving messenger. Could also be simply conjecture, but it is always good with philosophies and theories to choose from and look deeper into.
It could also be why it says for those who "observe" shahr ramadhan. You can clearly see a full moon given the right weather conditions.
So it is not impossible that you will get into fasting several times per year. It is also compatible with historical Christianity (sorry I accept unreliable sources to make comparisons).
It could be that these traditional sectarians did like with charity only once per year for example. Anyway, I think the recitation has been forgotten over some decades and then forgotten what words mean.
God bless you
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I am trying to understand why lot of people skip fasting during Ramadan without being ill or on journey, the two exempted conditions. In return they feed a needy for each missed fast and justify their action as being permitted by God in 2184.
( there is not just "2 exempted conditions", except maybe, in your head.
It says, I believe, fasting is prescribed but if you experience 'hardship' you can do it other days or pay the charity. It is for them to decide not you. How do you know people are not experiencing a hardship that you do not understand? Why do you get to decide if they are sufficiently ill - are you a doctor and have you examined them? Maybe a woman is in the early stages of pregnancy and is not showing yet and is yet to tell anyone, fasting may make her morning sickness worse, it may be sensible to delay it til after the birth, even if to you it just looks like she is being lazy or something. Open your mind man!
Peace.
sun
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Peace,
In fact God has allowed not fasting if it is too hard for you and instead let you do something else. Fasting is better, but skipping is still allowed as long as they do some charitable work instead.
But I still have problems swallowing the fact it is about a full month this fasting.
God bless you
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Peace,
In fact God has allowed not fasting if it is too hard for you and instead let you do something else. Fasting is better, but skipping is still allowed as long as they do some charitable work instead.
But I still have problems swallowing the fact it is about a full month this fasting.
God bless you
I'd just like to let ppl know that where I live, the days are going to be 16hrs for Ramadan. I'd like to start the pity party. rotfl '(
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Salaamun alaika,
I still practice the way it is written here. Please check it out. And I try not to ignore anything with the help of my Lord, Allah.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanI don't have my answers yet. of which kind of fast is meant in the Quran. my gut-feeling is more towards abstaining from speech. but it is too strange for me to swallow yet. and it is going to be HARD. (I don't know if this has anything to do with my gut feelings, I need to meditate on this) anyway, from where I live and from my understanding, the full moon of scorching heat is going to be tonight (its 12th June here) or is it tomorrow night? (13th June). lets say fasting prescribed is fasting from speech... will communicating through writing (such as this forum and other social media) be considered as speech as well...? In the mean time until I am sure, I am going to fast from food and drink as per traditional interpretation... I don't know why KULLU wa ISHRABU keep on playing in my head since the day I began searching about fasting as prescribed in the Quran...
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Yeah, 'hardship' is definitely variable depending on the person's situation. I do not blame you for struggling Man of Faith, as I believe you live in Sweden (?) surely it is too difficult to do fasting in summer in a place where it only goes dark for about 3 hours at night, mid summer?
It is hard enough in Northern England where twilight ends at around 2325pm and it starts getting light again at 330am around the solstice. If Ramamdan is for 10 days after the summer solstice as some people on here claim, then it is nigh on impossible unless you spend the whole of the daylight hours lying in bed, not moving.
My present Quranic interpretation of Ramadan is that is actually around september/autumm time i.e. literally after the 'scorched heat' (summer) is over. I think this also may be the origin of the idea that 'Ramadan is the 9th month' as september is the 9 month of the (solar) calendar. However, that would mean people would supposed to be fasting and taking it easy around the same time as the major harvest was going on when people need their energy, which doesn't really make sense... -\
I can't help thinking all the time that since the Quran was revealed to Arabs - people who live near the equator, who live a completely different lifestyle to people in Northern Europe; that maybe, on some level, it doesn't apply to us? But the Quran says many times it guides to the truth, is a guide for all believers etc ???
The traditional time of fasting in Britain/Northern Europe was late spring March/April when the food supplies stored over winter were running out anyway and the new crops had yet to bloom. Later 'Christianised' into Lent, I wonder if this would do as a 'Ramadan replacement'. Hmmm hmm
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Salaamun alaika,
I still practice the way it is written here. Please check it out. And I try not to ignore anything with the help of my Lord, Allah.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanSalaam MM Khan,
Your link includes below mentioned,
1926 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I
have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to human.' "-
How 1926 describes us what Saum really means?
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It is very very clearly mentioned in 1926 that during Saum you can eat and drink and DO NOT TALK TO ANYONE. This is how it was prescribed to Maryam who was before us as mentioned in 2183
The entire premise of your interpretation is based on 1926.
May I ask, what makes you conclude that it is not a ?specific command? prescribed to Maryam (AS) alone?
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there is not just "2 exempted conditions", except maybe, in your head.
Fine, ?maybe? you are aware of those Ayat(s) where other conditions are explicated. Kindly direct me to them, I will be thankful.
It says, I believe, fasting is prescribed but if you experience 'hardship' you can do it other days or pay the charity. It is for them to decide not you. How do you know people are not experiencing a hardship that you do not understand? Why do you get to decide if they are sufficiently ill - are you a doctor and have you examined them? Maybe a woman is in the early stages of pregnancy and is not showing yet and is yet to tell anyone, fasting may make her morning sickness worse, it may be sensible to delay it til after the birth, even if to you it just looks like she is being lazy or something. Open your mind man!
Kindly read the post again, specially the last paragraph and do not assume/speculate.
Hint It is about those able people who skip fasts without any valid reasons.
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I don't have my answers yet. of which kind of fast is meant in the Quran. my gut-feeling is more towards abstaining from speech. but it is too strange for me to swallow yet. and it is going to be HARD. (I don't know if this has anything to do with my gut feelings, I need to meditate on this) anyway, from where I live and from my understanding, the full moon of scorching heat is going to be tonight (its 12th June here) or is it tomorrow night? (13th June). lets say fasting prescribed is fasting from speech... will communicating through writing (such as this forum and other social media) be considered as speech as well...? In the mean time until I am sure, I am going to fast from food and drink as per traditional interpretation... I don't know why KULLU wa ISHRABU keep on playing in my head since the day I began searching about fasting as prescribed in the Quran...
Salaam,
I believe that discussing on internet like on this forum also needs to be stopped while fasting.
Just seek Allah's help wherever you get confused, He will surely guide you to the correct path, inshaAllah.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Salaam MM Khan,
Your link includes below mentioned,
1926 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I
have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to human.' "-
How 1926 describes us what Saum really means?
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It is very very clearly mentioned in 1926 that during Saum you can eat and drink and DO NOT TALK TO ANYONE. This is how it was prescribed to Maryam who was before us as mentioned in 2183
The entire premise of your interpretation is based on 1926.
May I ask, what makes you conclude that it is not a ?specific command? prescribed to Maryam (AS) alone?
Salaam Jacob,
Yes, please feel free to ask anything you like.
Remember brother, alQuraan/alKitaab is the only guide for us in a form of Book.
If it was a specific command for Marium and we don't have to do anything with it. Why do you think Allah mentioned it in alQuraan? )May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
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https//www.dropbox.com/s/sq8sd9qwv14b8wi/Photo%20Jun%2013%2C%207%2038%2031%20PM.jpg (dont know how to put image here)
Tonight 13th June here. The picture was taken by a friend at around 7.30pm. So I have been pondering about sawm. And I think I got it (its what I personally understood). If it is too difficult for me to do it tomorrow, I will do it some other time. Thank you so much for your kind reply yay
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https//www.dropbox.com/s/sq8sd9qwv14b8wi/Photo%20Jun%2013%2C%207%2038%2031%20PM.jpg (dont know how to put image here)
Tonight 13th June here. The picture was taken by a friend at around 7.30pm. So I have been pondering about sawm. And I think I got it (its what I personally understood). If it is too difficult for me to do it tomorrow, I will do it some other time. Thank you so much for your kind reply yay
Salaam,
Congrats!
Seeking Allah's help on everything and following whatever Allah guides me to. This is the way I follow and it helps me a lot, alhamduliAllah hailMay Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
I'd just like to let ppl know that where I live, the days are going to be 16hrs for Ramadan. I'd like to start the pity party. rotfl '(
Peace,
don't worry brother, where I live, I will have to fast around 18hrs so.. will be fun. The good part about fasting in northern hemisphere is that the weather is really ok and not too hot and you don't get thirsty THAT MUCh, I experienced fasting in a really hot muslim country once (temp around 30-35C degrees) and I can assure you that iit was MUCH MORE difficult to fast there until 6.30PM rather than to 9.45PM where I live now! Our Lord is really the Just and Wise one and we shouldn't complain because in every hardship there is some benefit as wellAs for the length, I agree that the monthly fasting is just too much and based on my really groundbreaking research, I realised that the Sunni fasting is just pure wrong. It is based on corrupted and completely illogical calendar that some imaams took from off the wall, their calendar defies logic, common sense and nature as it is lunar calendar and is out of sync with natural phenomenons (it is ridiculaous that, despite it's name it happens during the freezing cold winter months as well!!!. Their calendar stands in contradiction with the most perfect lunisolar Calendar that Quran explains in many verses (have a look at this excellent research by brother ayman http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0).
What is important, lunisolar calendar was also upheld by Moses and the People of Israel from the time of Passover and is explained in Exodus. Ancient Jews used this for centuries until it got allegedly corrupted in Babylon and nowadays their calendar is almost as corrupted as Muslim calendar.
My comparative analysis of Quranic verses and Torah Exodus shows absolute accordance and logic behind revelations of Torah and Quran and gave me instructions that fasting is for 10 days from the full moon after the summer solistice (which will start on 13 July this year), you can read in detail in my thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606402.0Of course, this is my research and other people might have other ideas about ramadhan and fasting, but to me it was a striking Eureka moment when I realised that my analysis of the journey of Children of Israel from the land of Phiraun up to the moment they got to the Mountain where Moses received revelation comes to exactly the same conclusion as independent study by brother Ayman who focused purely on semantical analysis of Quranic verses on the subject of fasting and calendar!!!
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peace mmkhan, all,
In the thread you linked to, about two years ago I asked you a question about sawm during hajj - have you had time to study it yet?
Reference http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604103.msg302312#msg302312Furthermore, to you and anyone who thinks sawm is all about not speaking, I also came across this today
O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then recompense is value similar to what was killed of the livestock, judging by two equitable persons from you, an offering/gift reaching the base/projection or an expiation feeding needy people, or compensation/equivalent that in sawm...
If you kill game
provide livestock similar to what was killed
feed needy people or equivalent to that in sawmCan you tell us how not speaking can be equivalent to providing livestock / feeding needy people?
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peace mmkhan, all,
In the thread you linked to, about two years ago I asked you a question about sawm during hajj - have you had time to study it yet?
Reference http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604103.msg302312#msg302312Peace brother Wakas,
I have not studied it in full. But I understand that Hajj means debate and the person who need to do saum during Hajj has to keep quite and cannot participate in debate. At the moment this is my understanding about saum during Hajj.
Furthermore, to you and anyone who thinks sawm is all about not speaking, I also came across this today
O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then recompense is value similar to what was killed of the livestock, judging by two equitable persons from you, an offering/gift reaching the base/projection or an expiation feeding needy people, or compensation/equivalent that in sawm...
If you kill game
provide livestock similar to what was killed
feed needy people or equivalent to that in sawmCan you tell us how not speaking can be equivalent to providing livestock / feeding needy people?
I understood it as feeding 10 masaakeen .
Or Saum equivalent to that = 10 Siyaam .InshaAllah, I will explain how. Allah showed me this from 589 .
589
Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths, but He will impose blame upon you for what you intended of oaths. So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your families or clothing them or the freeing of a slave. But whoever cannot find ? then a fast of three days. That is the expiation for oaths when you have sworn. But guard your oaths. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be grateful.
Please note the Arabic word , this word appears only 4 times in alQuraan. From that it is used twice in the above quoted aayat. One referring to and other one refers to . But I said 10 Siyaam because it is clearly mentioned and 595 says EQUIVALENT to feeding needy people. So, Siyaam is also for 10 days in this case.
This is how I understand at the moment. But still waiting for clarification from my Lord for the usage of two different "ta" as and . May Allah help us understand that pr
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan
