Non-observance of Sawm

Existential1

Peace,

In fact God has allowed not fasting if it is too hard for you and instead let you do something else. Fasting is better, but skipping is still allowed as long as they do some charitable work instead.

But I still have problems swallowing the fact it is about a full month this fasting.

God bless you

I'd just like to let ppl know that where I live, the days are going to be 16hrs for Ramadan. I'd like to start the pity party. rotfl '(

softfox887

Salaamun alaika,

I still practice the way it is written here. Please check it out. And I try not to ignore anything with the help of my Lord, Allah.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

I don't have my answers yet. of which kind of fast is meant in the Quran. my gut-feeling is more towards abstaining from speech. but it is too strange for me to swallow yet. and it is going to be HARD. (I don't know if this has anything to do with my gut feelings, I need to meditate on this) anyway, from where I live and from my understanding, the full moon of scorching heat is going to be tonight (its 12th June here) or is it tomorrow night? (13th June). lets say fasting prescribed is fasting from speech... will communicating through writing (such as this forum and other social media) be considered as speech as well...? In the mean time until I am sure, I am going to fast from food and drink as per traditional interpretation... I don't know why KULLU wa ISHRABU keep on playing in my head since the day I began searching about fasting as prescribed in the Quran...

Jane

Yeah, 'hardship' is definitely variable depending on the person's situation. I do not blame you for struggling Man of Faith, as I believe you live in Sweden (?) surely it is too difficult to do fasting in summer in a place where it only goes dark for about 3 hours at night, mid summer?

It is hard enough in Northern England where twilight ends at around 2325pm and it starts getting light again at 330am around the solstice. If Ramamdan is for 10 days after the summer solstice as some people on here claim, then it is nigh on impossible unless you spend the whole of the daylight hours lying in bed, not moving.

My present Quranic interpretation of Ramadan is that is actually around september/autumm time i.e. literally after the 'scorched heat' (summer) is over. I think this also may be the origin of the idea that 'Ramadan is the 9th month' as september is the 9 month of the (solar) calendar. However, that would mean people would supposed to be fasting and taking it easy around the same time as the major harvest was going on when people need their energy, which doesn't really make sense... -\

I can't help thinking all the time that since the Quran was revealed to Arabs - people who live near the equator, who live a completely different lifestyle to people in Northern Europe; that maybe, on some level, it doesn't apply to us? But the Quran says many times it guides to the truth, is a guide for all believers etc ???

The traditional time of fasting in Britain/Northern Europe was late spring March/April when the food supplies stored over winter were running out anyway and the new crops had yet to bloom. Later 'Christianised' into Lent, I wonder if this would do as a 'Ramadan replacement'. Hmmm hmm

Jacob

Salaamun alaika,

I still practice the way it is written here. Please check it out. And I try not to ignore anything with the help of my Lord, Allah.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Salaam MM Khan,

Your link includes below mentioned,

1926 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I
have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to human.' "

How 1926 describes us what Saum really means?
It is very very clearly mentioned in 1926 that during Saum you can eat and drink and DO NOT TALK TO ANYONE. This is how it was prescribed to Maryam who was before us as mentioned in 2183

The entire premise of your interpretation is based on 1926.

May I ask, what makes you conclude that it is not a ?specific command? prescribed to Maryam (AS) alone?

Jacob

there is not just "2 exempted conditions", except maybe, in your head.

Fine, ?maybe? you are aware of those Ayat(s) where other conditions are explicated. Kindly direct me to them, I will be thankful.

It says, I believe, fasting is prescribed but if you experience 'hardship' you can do it other days or pay the charity. It is for them to decide not you. How do you know people are not experiencing a hardship that you do not understand? Why do you get to decide if they are sufficiently ill - are you a doctor and have you examined them? Maybe a woman is in the early stages of pregnancy and is not showing yet and is yet to tell anyone, fasting may make her morning sickness worse, it may be sensible to delay it til after the birth, even if to you it just looks like she is being lazy or something. Open your mind man!

Kindly read the post again, specially the last paragraph and do not assume/speculate.

Hint It is about those able people who skip fasts without any valid reasons.

mmkhan

I don't have my answers yet. of which kind of fast is meant in the Quran. my gut-feeling is more towards abstaining from speech. but it is too strange for me to swallow yet. and it is going to be HARD. (I don't know if this has anything to do with my gut feelings, I need to meditate on this) anyway, from where I live and from my understanding, the full moon of scorching heat is going to be tonight (its 12th June here) or is it tomorrow night? (13th June). lets say fasting prescribed is fasting from speech... will communicating through writing (such as this forum and other social media) be considered as speech as well...? In the mean time until I am sure, I am going to fast from food and drink as per traditional interpretation... I don't know why KULLU wa ISHRABU keep on playing in my head since the day I began searching about fasting as prescribed in the Quran...

Salaam,

I believe that discussing on internet like on this forum also needs to be stopped while fasting.
Just seek Allah's help wherever you get confused, He will surely guide you to the correct path, inshaAllah.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

mmkhan

Salaam MM Khan,

Your link includes below mentioned,

1926 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I
have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to human.' "

How 1926 describes us what Saum really means?
It is very very clearly mentioned in 1926 that during Saum you can eat and drink and DO NOT TALK TO ANYONE. This is how it was prescribed to Maryam who was before us as mentioned in 2183

The entire premise of your interpretation is based on 1926.

May I ask, what makes you conclude that it is not a ?specific command? prescribed to Maryam (AS) alone?

Salaam Jacob,

Yes, please feel free to ask anything you like.

Remember brother, alQuraan/alKitaab is the only guide for us in a form of Book.
If it was a specific command for Marium and we don't have to do anything with it. Why do you think Allah mentioned it in alQuraan? )

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

softfox887

https//www.dropbox.com/s/sq8sd9qwv14b8wi/Photo%20Jun%2013%2C%207%2038%2031%20PM.jpg (dont know how to put image here)

Tonight 13th June here. The picture was taken by a friend at around 7.30pm. So I have been pondering about sawm. And I think I got it (its what I personally understood). If it is too difficult for me to do it tomorrow, I will do it some other time. Thank you so much for your kind reply yay

mmkhan

https//www.dropbox.com/s/sq8sd9qwv14b8wi/Photo%20Jun%2013%2C%207%2038%2031%20PM.jpg (dont know how to put image here)

Tonight 13th June here. The picture was taken by a friend at around 7.30pm. So I have been pondering about sawm. And I think I got it (its what I personally understood). If it is too difficult for me to do it tomorrow, I will do it some other time. Thank you so much for your kind reply yay

Salaam,

Congrats!
Seeking Allah's help on everything and following whatever Allah guides me to. This is the way I follow and it helps me a lot, alhamduliAllah hail

May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan

roshan_m

I'd just like to let ppl know that where I live, the days are going to be 16hrs for Ramadan. I'd like to start the pity party. rotfl '(

Peace,
don't worry brother, where I live, I will have to fast around 18hrs so.. will be fun. The good part about fasting in northern hemisphere is that the weather is really ok and not too hot and you don't get thirsty THAT MUCh, I experienced fasting in a really hot muslim country once (temp around 30-35C degrees) and I can assure you that iit was MUCH MORE difficult to fast there until 6.30PM rather than to 9.45PM where I live now! Our Lord is really the Just and Wise one and we shouldn't complain because in every hardship there is some benefit as well

As for the length, I agree that the monthly fasting is just too much and based on my really groundbreaking research, I realised that the Sunni fasting is just pure wrong. It is based on corrupted and completely illogical calendar that some imaams took from off the wall, their calendar defies logic, common sense and nature as it is lunar calendar and is out of sync with natural phenomenons (it is ridiculaous that, despite it's name it happens during the freezing cold winter months as well!!!. Their calendar stands in contradiction with the most perfect lunisolar Calendar that Quran explains in many verses (have a look at this excellent research by brother ayman http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0).

What is important, lunisolar calendar was also upheld by Moses and the People of Israel from the time of Passover and is explained in Exodus. Ancient Jews used this for centuries until it got allegedly corrupted in Babylon and nowadays their calendar is almost as corrupted as Muslim calendar.

My comparative analysis of Quranic verses and Torah Exodus shows absolute accordance and logic behind revelations of Torah and Quran and gave me instructions that fasting is for 10 days from the full moon after the summer solistice (which will start on 13 July this year), you can read in detail in my thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606402.0

Of course, this is my research and other people might have other ideas about ramadhan and fasting, but to me it was a striking Eureka moment when I realised that my analysis of the journey of Children of Israel from the land of Phiraun up to the moment they got to the Mountain where Moses received revelation comes to exactly the same conclusion as independent study by brother Ayman who focused purely on semantical analysis of Quranic verses on the subject of fasting and calendar!!!

Wakas

peace mmkhan, all,

In the thread you linked to, about two years ago I asked you a question about sawm during hajj - have you had time to study it yet?
Reference http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604103.msg302312#msg302312

Furthermore, to you and anyone who thinks sawm is all about not speaking, I also came across this today

O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then recompense is value similar to what was killed of the livestock, judging by two equitable persons from you, an offering/gift reaching the base/projection or an expiation feeding needy people, or compensation/equivalent that in sawm...

If you kill game
provide livestock similar to what was killed
feed needy people or equivalent to that in sawm

Can you tell us how not speaking can be equivalent to providing livestock / feeding needy people?

mmkhan

peace mmkhan, all,

In the thread you linked to, about two years ago I asked you a question about sawm during hajj - have you had time to study it yet?
Reference http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604103.msg302312#msg302312

Peace brother Wakas,

I have not studied it in full. But I understand that Hajj means debate and the person who need to do saum during Hajj has to keep quite and cannot participate in debate. At the moment this is my understanding about saum during Hajj.

Furthermore, to you and anyone who thinks sawm is all about not speaking, I also came across this today

O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then recompense is value similar to what was killed of the livestock, judging by two equitable persons from you, an offering/gift reaching the base/projection or an expiation feeding needy people, or compensation/equivalent that in sawm...

If you kill game
provide livestock similar to what was killed
feed needy people or equivalent to that in sawm

Can you tell us how not speaking can be equivalent to providing livestock / feeding needy people?

I understood it as feeding 10 masaakeen .
Or Saum equivalent to that = 10 Siyaam .

InshaAllah, I will explain how. Allah showed me this from 589 .

589

Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths, but He will impose blame upon you for what you intended of oaths. So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your families or clothing them or the freeing of a slave. But whoever cannot find ? then a fast of three days. That is the expiation for oaths when you have sworn. But guard your oaths. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be grateful.

Please note the Arabic word , this word appears only 4 times in alQuraan. From that it is used twice in the above quoted aayat. One referring to and other one refers to . But I said 10 Siyaam because it is clearly mentioned and 595 says EQUIVALENT to feeding needy people. So, Siyaam is also for 10 days in this case.

This is how I understand at the moment. But still waiting for clarification from my Lord for the usage of two different "ta" as and . May Allah help us understand that pr

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Wakas

peace mmkhan,

Thanks for the reply. With regard to al hajj and sawm you may be aware of my view here.

With regard to 595, my question was to do with how not speaking for X days is equivalent to feeding needy people, e.g. logically, conceptually, practicality etc. You never discussed that. This could be because there doesn't seem to be any link.

What you discussed, I mentioned also here.

The word "kaffarah" is not only linked to the two words you highlighted in 589.

mmkhan

peace mmkhan,

Thanks for the reply. With regard to al hajj and sawm you may be aware of my view here.

Peace Wakas,

InshaAllah, I will go through it, thanks.

With regard to 595, my question was to do with how not speaking for X days is equivalent to feeding needy people, e.g. logically, conceptually, practicality etc. You never discussed that. This could be because there doesn't seem to be any link.

What you discussed, I mentioned also here.

I think the problem is with the translation i.e.,the equivalent of that in fasting. There is no mention of "in" in the aayat. So, I took equal number of days, because in no ways feeding = fasting.

The word "kaffarah" is not only linked to the two words you highlighted in 589.

hmm
Can you clarify it more, thanks.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Wakas

peace mmkhan,

Please see part in bold

God will not hold you for your unintentional oaths, but He will hold you for what oaths you have made binding; so its expiation...

feeding of ten poor from the average of what you feed your family
or that you clothe them
or that you free a slave
so whoever cannot find shall sawm for three days

...that is an expiation for making your oaths when you swear, and guard your oaths. It is such that God clarifies for you His revelations that you may be thankful.

It seems clear to me "kaffarah" can apply to any 4 in the list.

Mazhar

Allah the Exalted will not hold you people accountable for your superfluous promissory chatters in sworn circumstances .
But be mindful that Allah the Exalted will hold you responsible and accountable for those vows, pledges-promises which you have solemnly contracted/sworn.
For reason of not discharging the pledge, the expiation-absolving one's self is feeding ten indigent persons the food of average standard of that you regularly serve your family;
Or provide clothing to them; or free a bondwoman.
Sequel to it; he who has not yet resources to meet the expenditure; thereat, fasting for three days is prescribed.
This is the expiation of your promises when you have sworn.
And you people protect/honour your promises/pledges/contracts.
This is how Allah the Exalted explicitly explicates His Aa'ya'at Unitary Verbal Passages of Qur'aan rendering each point-concept-situation distinctly isolated and crystal clear for you.
So that you might effectively recognize, acknowledge and express gratitude.

The cost to suffer for expiation is progressive; it covers four types of people. The last is the one who cannot even afford to feed ordinary meal to 10 people.

mmkhan

peace mmkhan,

Please see part in bold

God will not hold you for your unintentional oaths, but He will hold you for what oaths you have made binding; so its expiation...

feeding of ten poor from the average of what you feed your family
or that you clothe them
or that you free a slave
so whoever cannot find shall sawm for three days

...that is an expiation for making your oaths when you swear, and guard your oaths. It is such that God clarifies for you His revelations that you may be thankful.

It seems clear to me "kaffarah" can apply to any 4 in the list.

Peace Wakas,

I understood it as follows

589

Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths,
but He will impose blame upon you for what you intended of oaths.

So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your families
or clothing them or the freeing of a slave.

But whoever cannot find ? then a fast of three days. That is the expiation for oaths when you have sworn.

But guard your oaths. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be grateful.

Three options are clear which is an expiation when you intend of oath.

1- Feeding of 10 needy people from the average of that which you feed your families.
OR
2- Clothing them.
OR
3- Freeing the slave.

There is not OR or Arabic word AW for the last option. The forth option can also be written with AW but that is not the case. And also there must be some reason to say and then .

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

huruf

I find interesting the suggestion of Jane that in fact the days to fast would be around que equinox, where daylight lasts the same as night. It would be logical and it would solve all the questions about latitude.

Concerning the number of days, I also have the gut feeling of Man of Faith, that a month on a run is very long and that it might be ten days. I think the Qur'an tries to give the greatest benefit with the least effort. Since nobody is obliged not to fast any number of days she or he cares, to keep the compulsory days at a minimum would indeed make things easier and probaly by the tenth day, as per my experience, most of the benefits would have been attained.

I also agree that that prolonged fasting is meant from drink and food.

Everywhere, amongst all people of the planet, fast has been practiced and praised as good for health, physical, mental and spiritual.

The fasting to talking is a more specific thing. There are nuns and monks who do it. To do it for any length of time, you must have the priviledge of having a life arranged for that. Also people resort to it instinctively when words become a danger. That was certainly the case for Maryam, where if anything, everything shed said would be used against her. Abstaining from speaking was the wisest things she could do. Please, bear in mind her situation and that she kept silent much, because words for her were more dangerous than silence. She was a single mother and pointed out as loose.

Salaam

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Fasts longer than about a week or a week and a half has negative implications on things such as muscle mass and you will feel substantially weaker physically during daytime. That is my experience despite trying to balance the days right. After about 10 days it starts to become a burden to maintain a fast and yet in the same passage God says not to make things hard for us.

As far as I am concerned it is when you witness the moon during "Ramadhan" you ought to begin to fast until it vanishes which is shorter than the mullahs say. You cannot see the moon easily when it first is supposed to become visible. Several days it is almost dark. And ancient people had no telescopes. Our technology makes fasting hard

But I suppose we need better arguments. It just feels a bit excessive with around 30 days. Often longer fasts are for punishment in the recitation and is really Ramadhan a punishment? It says you could fast X months to sort of pay for your crime and it falls under the same category to fast 30 days in my opinion (one month). Do you not think so, sister huruf?

God bless you

hawk99

Peace,

Love Ramadhan, it is part of the path of righteousness. The thirty days I understand is difficult for some and many
cut it short for various reasons and God has given those who find it too difficult an out, but the benefits are great!
I've learned over the years "how to fast" since it was difficult for me for many years. Now the thirty day fast is easy
and I look forward to it every year. As for the not talking, I find that ludicrous, and not worth comment.

Salaam,

I believe that discussing on internet like on this forum also needs to be stopped while fasting.
Just seek Allah's help wherever you get confused, He will surely guide you to the correct path, inshaAllah.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Peace mmkhan,

Are you inventing rules/ directives nope

God bless

peace