Non-observance of Sawm
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I'd just like to let ppl know that where I live, the days are going to be 16hrs for Ramadan. I'd like to start the pity party. rotfl '(
Peace,
don't worry brother, where I live, I will have to fast around 18hrs so.. will be fun. The good part about fasting in northern hemisphere is that the weather is really ok and not too hot and you don't get thirsty THAT MUCh, I experienced fasting in a really hot muslim country once (temp around 30-35C degrees) and I can assure you that iit was MUCH MORE difficult to fast there until 6.30PM rather than to 9.45PM where I live now! Our Lord is really the Just and Wise one and we shouldn't complain because in every hardship there is some benefit as wellAs for the length, I agree that the monthly fasting is just too much and based on my really groundbreaking research, I realised that the Sunni fasting is just pure wrong. It is based on corrupted and completely illogical calendar that some imaams took from off the wall, their calendar defies logic, common sense and nature as it is lunar calendar and is out of sync with natural phenomenons (it is ridiculaous that, despite it's name it happens during the freezing cold winter months as well!!!. Their calendar stands in contradiction with the most perfect lunisolar Calendar that Quran explains in many verses (have a look at this excellent research by brother ayman http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0).
What is important, lunisolar calendar was also upheld by Moses and the People of Israel from the time of Passover and is explained in Exodus. Ancient Jews used this for centuries until it got allegedly corrupted in Babylon and nowadays their calendar is almost as corrupted as Muslim calendar.
My comparative analysis of Quranic verses and Torah Exodus shows absolute accordance and logic behind revelations of Torah and Quran and gave me instructions that fasting is for 10 days from the full moon after the summer solistice (which will start on 13 July this year), you can read in detail in my thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606402.0Of course, this is my research and other people might have other ideas about ramadhan and fasting, but to me it was a striking Eureka moment when I realised that my analysis of the journey of Children of Israel from the land of Phiraun up to the moment they got to the Mountain where Moses received revelation comes to exactly the same conclusion as independent study by brother Ayman who focused purely on semantical analysis of Quranic verses on the subject of fasting and calendar!!!
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peace mmkhan, all,
In the thread you linked to, about two years ago I asked you a question about sawm during hajj - have you had time to study it yet?
Reference http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604103.msg302312#msg302312Furthermore, to you and anyone who thinks sawm is all about not speaking, I also came across this today
O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then recompense is value similar to what was killed of the livestock, judging by two equitable persons from you, an offering/gift reaching the base/projection or an expiation feeding needy people, or compensation/equivalent that in sawm...
If you kill game
provide livestock similar to what was killed
feed needy people or equivalent to that in sawmCan you tell us how not speaking can be equivalent to providing livestock / feeding needy people?
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peace mmkhan, all,
In the thread you linked to, about two years ago I asked you a question about sawm during hajj - have you had time to study it yet?
Reference http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604103.msg302312#msg302312Peace brother Wakas,
I have not studied it in full. But I understand that Hajj means debate and the person who need to do saum during Hajj has to keep quite and cannot participate in debate. At the moment this is my understanding about saum during Hajj.
Furthermore, to you and anyone who thinks sawm is all about not speaking, I also came across this today
O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then recompense is value similar to what was killed of the livestock, judging by two equitable persons from you, an offering/gift reaching the base/projection or an expiation feeding needy people, or compensation/equivalent that in sawm...
If you kill game
provide livestock similar to what was killed
feed needy people or equivalent to that in sawmCan you tell us how not speaking can be equivalent to providing livestock / feeding needy people?
I understood it as feeding 10 masaakeen .
Or Saum equivalent to that = 10 Siyaam .InshaAllah, I will explain how. Allah showed me this from 589 .
589
Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths, but He will impose blame upon you for what you intended of oaths. So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your families or clothing them or the freeing of a slave. But whoever cannot find ? then a fast of three days. That is the expiation for oaths when you have sworn. But guard your oaths. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be grateful.
Please note the Arabic word , this word appears only 4 times in alQuraan. From that it is used twice in the above quoted aayat. One referring to and other one refers to . But I said 10 Siyaam because it is clearly mentioned and 595 says EQUIVALENT to feeding needy people. So, Siyaam is also for 10 days in this case.
This is how I understand at the moment. But still waiting for clarification from my Lord for the usage of two different "ta" as and . May Allah help us understand that pr
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
peace mmkhan,
Thanks for the reply. With regard to al hajj and sawm you may be aware of my view here.
With regard to 595, my question was to do with how not speaking for X days is equivalent to feeding needy people, e.g. logically, conceptually, practicality etc. You never discussed that. This could be because there doesn't seem to be any link.
What you discussed, I mentioned also here.
The word "kaffarah" is not only linked to the two words you highlighted in 589.
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peace mmkhan,
Thanks for the reply. With regard to al hajj and sawm you may be aware of my view here.
Peace Wakas,
InshaAllah, I will go through it, thanks.
With regard to 595, my question was to do with how not speaking for X days is equivalent to feeding needy people, e.g. logically, conceptually, practicality etc. You never discussed that. This could be because there doesn't seem to be any link.
What you discussed, I mentioned also here.
I think the problem is with the translation i.e.,the equivalent of that in fasting. There is no mention of "in" in the aayat. So, I took equal number of days, because in no ways feeding = fasting.
The word "kaffarah" is not only linked to the two words you highlighted in 589.
hmm
Can you clarify it more, thanks.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
peace mmkhan,
Please see part in bold
God will not hold you for your unintentional oaths, but He will hold you for what oaths you have made binding; so its expiation...
- feeding of ten poor from the average of what you feed your family
- or that you clothe them
- or that you free a slave
- so whoever cannot find shall sawm for three days
...that is an expiation for making your oaths when you swear, and guard your oaths. It is such that God clarifies for you His revelations that you may be thankful.
It seems clear to me "kaffarah" can apply to any 4 in the list.
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Allah the Exalted will not hold you people accountable for your superfluous promissory chatters in sworn circumstances .
But be mindful that Allah the Exalted will hold you responsible and accountable for those vows, pledges-promises which you have solemnly contracted/sworn.
For reason of not discharging the pledge, the expiation-absolving one's self is feeding ten indigent persons the food of average standard of that you regularly serve your family;
Or provide clothing to them; or free a bondwoman.
Sequel to it; he who has not yet resources to meet the expenditure; thereat, fasting for three days is prescribed.
This is the expiation of your promises when you have sworn.
And you people protect/honour your promises/pledges/contracts.
This is how Allah the Exalted explicitly explicates His Aa'ya'at Unitary Verbal Passages of Qur'aan rendering each point-concept-situation distinctly isolated and crystal clear for you.
So that you might effectively recognize, acknowledge and express gratitude.The cost to suffer for expiation is progressive; it covers four types of people. The last is the one who cannot even afford to feed ordinary meal to 10 people.
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peace mmkhan,
Please see part in bold
God will not hold you for your unintentional oaths, but He will hold you for what oaths you have made binding; so its expiation...
- feeding of ten poor from the average of what you feed your family
- or that you clothe them
- or that you free a slave
- so whoever cannot find shall sawm for three days
...that is an expiation for making your oaths when you swear, and guard your oaths. It is such that God clarifies for you His revelations that you may be thankful.
It seems clear to me "kaffarah" can apply to any 4 in the list.
Peace Wakas,
I understood it as follows
589
Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths,
but He will impose blame upon you for what you intended of oaths.So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your families
or clothing them or the freeing of a slave.But whoever cannot find ? then a fast of three days. That is the expiation for oaths when you have sworn.
But guard your oaths. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be grateful.
Three options are clear which is an expiation when you intend of oath.
1- Feeding of 10 needy people from the average of that which you feed your families.
OR
2- Clothing them.
OR
3- Freeing the slave.There is not OR or Arabic word AW for the last option. The forth option can also be written with AW but that is not the case. And also there must be some reason to say and then .
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
I find interesting the suggestion of Jane that in fact the days to fast would be around que equinox, where daylight lasts the same as night. It would be logical and it would solve all the questions about latitude.
Concerning the number of days, I also have the gut feeling of Man of Faith, that a month on a run is very long and that it might be ten days. I think the Qur'an tries to give the greatest benefit with the least effort. Since nobody is obliged not to fast any number of days she or he cares, to keep the compulsory days at a minimum would indeed make things easier and probaly by the tenth day, as per my experience, most of the benefits would have been attained.
I also agree that that prolonged fasting is meant from drink and food.
Everywhere, amongst all people of the planet, fast has been practiced and praised as good for health, physical, mental and spiritual.
The fasting to talking is a more specific thing. There are nuns and monks who do it. To do it for any length of time, you must have the priviledge of having a life arranged for that. Also people resort to it instinctively when words become a danger. That was certainly the case for Maryam, where if anything, everything shed said would be used against her. Abstaining from speaking was the wisest things she could do. Please, bear in mind her situation and that she kept silent much, because words for her were more dangerous than silence. She was a single mother and pointed out as loose.
Salaam
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Peace,
Fasts longer than about a week or a week and a half has negative implications on things such as muscle mass and you will feel substantially weaker physically during daytime. That is my experience despite trying to balance the days right. After about 10 days it starts to become a burden to maintain a fast and yet in the same passage God says not to make things hard for us.
As far as I am concerned it is when you witness the moon during "Ramadhan" you ought to begin to fast until it vanishes which is shorter than the mullahs say. You cannot see the moon easily when it first is supposed to become visible. Several days it is almost dark. And ancient people had no telescopes. Our technology makes fasting hard
But I suppose we need better arguments. It just feels a bit excessive with around 30 days. Often longer fasts are for punishment in the recitation and is really Ramadhan a punishment? It says you could fast X months to sort of pay for your crime and it falls under the same category to fast 30 days in my opinion (one month). Do you not think so, sister huruf?
God bless you
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Peace,
Love Ramadhan, it is part of the path of righteousness. The thirty days I understand is difficult for some and many
cut it short for various reasons and God has given those who find it too difficult an out, but the benefits are great!
I've learned over the years "how to fast" since it was difficult for me for many years. Now the thirty day fast is easy
and I look forward to it every year. As for the not talking, I find that ludicrous, and not worth comment.Salaam,
I believe that discussing on internet like on this forum also needs to be stopped while fasting.
Just seek Allah's help wherever you get confused, He will surely guide you to the correct path, inshaAllah.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanPeace mmkhan,
Are you inventing rules/ directives nope
God bless
peace
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Peace,
If you do something for God then nothing needs to be stopped.
God bless you
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eace mmkhan,
I think you "need more meat on your legs" before presenting something canonical about Ramadan if it happens that your theory is right. Try to research into the depth of the Arabic words and cross-check. A viable interpretation is needed to have most of us change our ways. Not just present a word or even just a phrase but it must be set in a context and shahr Ramadan as phrase must be fully comprehensive.
If you want to bust a myth then you need many things that lean towards something.
History of Christianity or those groups may be needed as references too even if much is corrupted. The practice is something that was on the followers of Jesus and Moses too and I have never heard of abstention from talking in a systematic recurring ritual either in the groups calling it Judaism or Christianity.
And sure Muslims have made many weird rituals, but I feel either the fasting at all is an invention or it is about abstention from food. Either grave misinterpretation of the language presented in the recitation or there is fasting.
As far as I am concerned historically Christians have fasted for a few days in a row at most. In springtime, March I think, Christians historically had a fast for a while. But it may be in commemoration of Jesus crucifixion which is an abomination.
If you want flaws in the practices analyze the passages talking about Ramadhan and perhaps you find some inconsistency. If you find an exact Arabic interpretation for the passages in question then you might have better luck at gaining a better comprehension for me and others.
God bless you
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Peace mmkhan,
Are you inventing rules/ directives nope
God bless
peace
Peace Hawk99,
I don't invent any rule or set rules for anyone. If you read carefully it was my reply to reply#10 where member burnian asked me
lets say fasting prescribed is fasting from speech... will communicating through writing (such as this forum and other social media) be considered as speech as well...?My reply to that was "I believe that discussing on internet like on this forum also needs to be stopped while fasting." I said what I believe.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
eace mmkhan,
I think you "need more meat on your legs" before presenting something canonical about Ramadan if it happens that your theory is right. Try to research into the depth of the Arabic words and cross-check. A viable interpretation is needed to have most of us change our ways. Not just present a word or even just a phrase but it must be set in a context and shahr Ramadan as phrase must be fully comprehensive.
If you want to bust a myth then you need many things that lean towards something.
Peace MoF,
Thanks for your suggestion, btw already my legs have much meat on it, difficult to find jeans
Did you read my thread about ramadhan? hmmHistory of Christianity or those groups may be needed as references too even if much is corrupted. The practice is something that was on the followers of Jesus and Moses too and I have never heard of abstention from talking in a systematic recurring ritual either in the groups calling it Judaism or Christianity.
Red Sorry, not for me.
And sure Muslims have made many weird rituals, but I feel either the fasting at all is an invention or it is about abstention from food. Either grave misinterpretation of the language presented in the recitation or there is fasting.
As far as I am concerned historically Christians have fasted for a few days in a row at most. In springtime, March I think, Christians historically had a fast for a while. But it may be in commemoration of Jesus crucifixion which is an abomination.
If you want flaws in the practices analyze the passages talking about Ramadhan and perhaps you find some inconsistency. If you find an exact Arabic interpretation for the passages in question then you might have better luck at gaining a better comprehension for me and others.
God bless you
Red Why do I want flaws in practices of others? That is not my look out bro
Sorry again, not interested in knowing how Christians fast and how others fast.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace mmkhan,
Okay. But I am interested in that because they too promised to uphold the covenant of God. It can be teaching to seek what they do and why our ways may be different. That was to influence you into seeing why the recitation is different and not to go from one faulty practice to another.
If you think you are special because of you and your Quran then you are unfortunately being arrogant. The people of the past virtually agreed on upholding the same practices or do you think that God made the fasting harder at the advent of the recitation?
And I think that many christians uphold the covenant more than many Muslims. They also promised to have Abraham's foundation as a basis for their faith.
I have not read anything that seems to be valid arguments to nullify the current practices even if I would like to, but I do not want to risk changing anything based on wishful thinking.
God bless you
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Fine, maybe you are aware of those Ayat(s) where other conditions are explicated. Kindly direct me to them, I will be thankful.
You are trying too hard. Try thinking laterally. Looking at the verse in question, yes it does mention you may abstain if you are travelling or ill but these are so wide-ranging how do you know? Is a person who has to walk to work every day 'travelling' even if they come home again? Yes and No. Is a breast-feeding woman ill? Maybe not, but is her fasting 16hrs/day at the same time gonna make her and/or the baby ill. Maybe.
That is why I think God counters it by saying 'if you experience hardship'. This negates any 'conditions for exemption' in the first place. If you feel that you would experience hardship so much that fasting would be dangerous, then you may delay it until when you can; if you still can't then you can feed poor people instead (i.e. as a charity - I dislike this being labelled a 'ransom'), if you can afford it.
Kindly read the post again, specially the last paragraph and do not assume/speculate.
Oh, I think you are the one doing that.
Hint It is about those able people who skip fasts without any valid reasons.
Again, it is not up to you (or anyone) to decide whether someone else's reasons are valid or not. Only they know. Unless they ask your opinion and then you can say what you think; but even then it is their decision. The relationship you have with yourself/God is sacred; it is impossible for you to know what is right for someone else, and neither can someone else for you. Counter hint Learn how to mind your own business.
Peace.
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You are trying too hard. Try thinking laterally. Looking at the verse in question, yes it does mention you may abstain if you are travelling or ill but these are so wide-ranging how do you know? Is a person who has to walk to work every day 'travelling' even if they come home again? Yes and No. Is a breast-feeding woman ill? Maybe not, but is her fasting 16hrs/day at the same time gonna make her and/or the baby ill. Maybe.
That is why I think God counters it by saying 'if you experience hardship'. This negates any 'conditions for exemption' in the first place. If you feel that you would experience hardship so much that fasting would be dangerous, then you may delay it until when you can; if you still can't then you can feed poor people instead (i.e. as a charity - I dislike this being labelled a 'ransom', if you can afford it.
Oh, I think you are the one doing that.
Again, it is not up to you (or anyone) to decide whether someone else's reasons are valid or not. Only they know. Unless they ask your opinion and then you can say what you think; but even then it is their decision. The relationship you have with yourself/God is sacred; it is impossible for you to know what is right for someone else, and neither can someone else for you. Counter hint Learn how to mind your own business.
Peace.
I find this very much in agreement with the general thrust of the Qur'an which calls us repeatedly to reason and reflect and assume our personal decisions. We are to follow but follow through conviction and independent, free decision, after having clarity on our motives, that is, after having purified us.
God wants to purify us, and for that we must want to be purified and do our part as far as we are capable of it. And the judge , as Jane says, are we ourselves. That is our test for us, that is our job, to test ourselves and exact the best or the less bad from ourselves. Do much, do little, but do do something.
That is the great wisdom of the Qur'an where nobody is excluded and everybody wins in the race. It reminds me when my daughter was a little child and she put her "toys" (which might be even chickpeas) to run races. Everytime they were all winners. First great applause, because such and such has won first. Then great applause because such and such has won second, and so on and so forth great applauses up to the win of the very last one.
What a great lesson those races were.
We are all meant to win, at our own pace. We should not envy or feel bad because of those who are "better", we should believe in tawhid, we are all One. We should feel comforted that evey person does his or her best. We should not be measuring merits, but applauding effort. Little is way way way over nothing.
As to pregnant women and breastfeeding women and all those who already are engaged in giving themselves for others, we must know that they are already doing the purifying, because what they do without engaging in special sawm is purifying by itself. If they feel like they are being more faithful taking up more, that must always be their own estimation and decision. And with or without that equally applauded.
Encouragement and compliment are better than grudging and excting from our cohuman. They do not need us as judges. As the Qur'an says, enjoin the best and advice the best, but it does not command us the judge anybody not to pester anybody. And compliments, where sincere, are about the best advice one can give. If we find something good in someone, just say it to the person, why grudge it.
Salaam
