Khatem or Seal meanings.
-
Salaam all,
But I do understand Khatem in 3340 to be seal in the sense that a messenger is a sealing meaning, possibly, a culminaton of the knowledge, wisdom, understanding and studying set forth by prophets (those who have knowledge of and uphold the scripture).Peace Damon,
This is excellent. I think that closure is implied by this concept of imprinting also and that's why I think it needs more discussion and thinking.
After all a seal is placed at the bottom of a page and puts the finishing touch on it - but again it's an implied and not explicit meaning.
I think the 'khatem' is definitely an authentication or confirmation. There's no doubt in my mind about that aspect. It's the closure that is problematic.
In a sense the placing then of a seal on someone's heart etc. would also finalise them and their judgement. Is that consistent with our understanding of God's system?
From some verses it's clear that there are individuals who are doomed in such a way. Pharaoh, Noah's son, Lot's wife, Abu Lahab and wife etc. The seal seems to be permanent on these.
I pray that God protects all of our faiths and keeps us free of receiving any seal on our hearts/minds. May God guide us always.
Peace.
-
Salaam,
I agree with Truth/Oben here. I think Marie's analysis does not hold simply because in my opinion she has not taken into account the meaning of muhammad/appreciative. Thus if I were to look at ayat 3340 I would see how first we are told how these people's ancestors were not appreciative, but the rasoola Allah is and how this condition is the seal of the informers as well. The word khatama has a primary significance of the covering over of a thing and being secure against other things intruding upon it.
In ayaat 26-7 we are introduced to those who reject/kafaroo and are given the point that this state of rejection is what envelopes them, they do not let belief in. If we were to translate khatama here as seal we are aware that even the staunch rejector can pop this seal or remove this all embracing shield against belief in millati ibraheem or Allah even. This is reflected in other passages where people are set on a way of seeing things. Allah even says that yakhtim the heart of the rasool against the beliefs of these people.
Is the seal in ayaat 3665 indefinate? How about in 8325? How does one drink from a sealed drink?
In ayaat 8325-26 it is more likely here that Khitam means the ending because it is the result or issue of the drink, what we finally experience of it, it's musk.
Just my thoughts.
Joe
-
Salaams,
Not mine but some one talented - i am sure.
Meaning with the term
"Seal of the Prophets"
"Muhammad is... the Messenger of Allah, and
the Seal of the Prophets..."-Qur'an 3340
"Universally, the Prophets are of two kinds. One are the independent Prophets Who are followed; the other kind are not independent and are themselves followers.
The other Prophets are followers and promoters, for they are branches and not independent; they receive the bounty of the independent Prophets, and they profit by the light of the Guidance of the universal Prophets. They are like the moon, which is not luminous and radiant in itself, but receives its light from the sun.
The universal Prophets Who appeared independently are, for example, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad. But the others who are followers and promoters are like Solomon, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel. For the independent Prophets are founders; They establish a new religion and make new creatures of men; They change the general morals, promote new customs and rules, renew the cycle and the Law.
With regard to the second sort of Prophets who are followers, these also promote the Law of God, make known the Religion of God, and proclaim His word. Of themselves they have no power and might, except what they receive from the independent Prophets."The term "Nabi" or "Prophet" has been used in the Qur'an in two ways
1- The independent or law-giving Messengers like Moses, Jesus, Abraham, Muhammad and
2- dependent, or expounder Messengers(prophets) , the understanding of this issue is crucial in recognizing the meaning of "Seal of the Prophets" .
In light of what has been discussed above, there are several implications associated with the terms Khatam'un Nabi-een
1- The question of "seal of prophethood" deals with the IMMEDIATE successorship of Prophet Muhammad. That is to say, the Messengers inspired by God, according to the Semitic tradition, from Adam to Jesus, were followed by prophets who promulgated and reinforced the message of the religion within which they had appeared. A close examination of the purpose behind the mission of the prophets of Israel (i.e. Daniel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, etc....) who appeared after Moses, suggests that the function of these highly esteemed individuals was to strengthen the faith of the children of Israel in the Mosaic Covenant. None of them claimed to a new, or unique revelations from God. They did not change or abrogate, even to the smallest extent, any of the laws established by Moses. They just, promulgated the teachings of Moses, and further elaborated on the application of those laws in the life of the Jews.
This continued until the robe of Revelation was granted to Jesus, during Whose period (until the revelation of Muhammad) many individuals also became the exponents of His law and Revelation.
Through Muhammad's revelation the office of prophethood was ended. That is to say, no other prophet such as that of Jewish or Christian prophets were to appear.verse of the Qur'an "O children of Adam , verily apostles from among you shall come unto you, who shall expound my signs unto you whosoever therefore shall fear God and amend, there shall come no fear on them, neither shall they be grieved." .
This verse per say holds good for eternity.Let us now examine the opinions of various Muslim theologians, from both Shi'ah and Sunni backgrounds, on the meaning of the term Khatam'u-Nabieen. I will first focus on this, from a Shi'ah perspective... then I will discuss the Sunni view as well as some other views
Mulla Fatth-i-Kashani, who is one of the highly respected Shi'ah scholars, in his commentary on Manhaj-ul-Sadegheen, addresses the concept of Khatam'u-Nabieen as follows "Muhammad's fear became a reality, after He married Zei'nab. After marriage, the idolaters, and His enemies started criticizing Him, and accusing Him of hypocrisy. They'd say, Muhammad teaches His followers that it is unlawful for a father to marry his son's divorced wife, while He has married Zayd's wife.
As a result of this criticism, God revealed to Muhammad, Peace be upon Him!, as reflected in the Su'rih of the Confederates, that, Muhammad is not the father of any man (i.e. any male offsprings) among you (since, no surviving male offsprings remained after He passed away). As a result, the law of not marrying the divorced wife of a son would not apply to Muhammad. Furthermore, God calls Muhammad an Apostle of God, in that same verse, (suggesting that He was the spiritual father of all Arabs, and Zayd was simply an Arab with no blood relationship to Him).
Moreover, the verse identifies Muhammad as the seal of the prophets, that is to say, since He did not have any surviving male offsprings to inherit prophethood from Him, thus, prophethood was sealed with Him. That is to say, no prophets shall appear after Him... All of Muhammad's male offsprings died in early childhood, prior to Muhammad's own passing, thus, this verse of the Qur'an came into fulfillment."
Many of the Shi'ah commentators believe in a literal meaning of the term highly respected Shi'ah scholar/theologian argues in his book, Ekmaal-ud-Din, vol I "All the Messengers of God who appeared prior to Muhammad, were succeeded by a Nabi (i.e. a prophet). Adam was a Rasool (Messenger of God), and His successor was Shais the Nabi (Seth the prophet). Noah was a Messenger of God and His successor was Saam the Nabi (Shem the prophet). Abraham, Moses, Jesus and David (peace be upon Them!), were also God's Messengers, Whose successors were Isaac, Joshua, Simon (St. Peter) and Solomon Who were all prophets. -
Peace Joe,
Thank you for pointing to 646. It indicates the possibility of restoration or removal of the seal and answers my question nicely.
So at least in the sense of having one's heart imprinted it is able to be removed if God guides that person ie. the person repents, reforms, asks for and accepts guidance.
I think the seal/imprint on a heart is also a mark of authentication/confirmation in a sense. The mark is placed on confirmed disbelievers - an imprint that confirms the state of disbelief for those who reject the truth.
Peace.
-
Salaam Oben,
an imprint that confirms the state of disbelief for those who reject the truth.
My sentiments exactly because the primary meaning of khatem is that of the covering of a thing and protecting it against other infringements. In this sense is it a seal, it confirms their standing.
Joe
-
peace oben,
3737 In fact, he has brought the truth, and has confirmed the messengers.
So previous messengers can be confirmed as well as scriptures.
From my perspective, this is the same thing. A messenger who confirms other messengers implies he confirms their messages. You, me and other we can confirm the messengers through their messages.
The verse is clear marie; Muhammad is the 'khatem'.
In your envelope/postman analogy the Koran is the envelope and Muhammad is the postman. Muhammad is not stamped or marked - instead he IS the SEAL/MARK of the prophets.
What? the Koran = envelope
We have not the same analogy oben, the quran is the message itself which is delivered by the messeger.
What does the mark do? We established that a 'khatem' is a mark/stamp and not a method of closing something. So this mark is one of authentication. It authenticates or confirms the previous prophets.
I disagree because the analogy between the envelope and the messenger is wrong. When I read the reading, a "symbolic mark" of the messeger is not necessary to see that the message is from the god. The authentification is within the reading.
After all the mark helps confirm that the letter is from the person who placed the mark on it. Kings for example would put their mark on their laws using their rings - the mark confirms/authenticates that it was from the king.
Again, it is not appropriate to make an anlogy between the messeger and the envelope.
Inside the envelope, there is a message, and without a messeger, the "enveloppe + the message", it will not arrive to us.
Peace Joe,
I think Marie's analysis does not hold simply because in my opinion she has not taken into account the meaning of muhammad/appreciative. Thus if I were to look at ayat 3340 I would see how first we are told how these people's ancestors were not appreciative,
Ahmad and Mohammad have a common meaning and I didn't forget that they mean appreciative... If we consider the context of the chapter 33 since the begining, we can see that this is not only a generic term. I respect your view but I don't share it.
The God knows best
Marie
-
Salaam Marie,
If you could only see the context as I see it, the protection, the umph! put into the nabi and the muttaqeen to strive on, that lends to the rasool being appreciative/muhammad and it being the stamp upon which the nabiyyeen draw themselves.
1- the rasool is to be appreciative
2- it entails the standing of the nabiyyeen
Joe
-
Salaam Joe,
If you could only see the context as I see it,
Our divergence is about the context, you see the context of one verse, I see the context of the whole chapter, therefore we cannot converge until now.
367 has a similar structure than 3340 and that doesn't mean the one who is'haneef/monotheist is to be 'abraham.'
367 Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was an upright man who had surrendered to Allah. He never ascribed divinity to anyone beside One True God.
Ma kana ibraheemu yahoodiyyan wala nasraniyyan walakin kana haneefan musliman wama kana minaalmushrikeena3340 Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is Allah?s Messenger and the Closing Seal of all Prophets. And Allah, indeed, is Knower of all things.
Ma kana muhammadun abaahadin min rijalikum walakin rasoola Allahi wa khatama alnnabiyyeena wakana Allahubikulli shay-in AAaleemanThe stamps of the messenger doesn't matter but only the authentification within the divine message delivered by the messeger.
Marie
-
Salaams marie,all,
Love to know where you have this"all" from,Thank you.
Salaam.
-
Salaams marie,
From your ayat
"Seal of all Prophets. "
-
Salaam Marie,
I am actually referring to the entire chapter. If you read my last post you would see that, otherwise one should ask where I am talking about the muttaqeen and the protection being lent to these people and the rasool. I'm just worried that you're not really paying attention to the context.
Joe
-
Salam all,
Muhammad does not mean Apreciative. It means Appreciated/praised.
Hussein
Peace hlatif, all
As you said, "muhammad" means appreciated/praised, not appreciative. Although I agree with the form, "solicited" seems more appropriate as translation.
--
-
Salam Mohamed, Hussein,
Salam all,
Muhammad does not mean Apreciative. It means Appreciated/praised.
Hussein
Peace hlatif, all
As you said, "muhammad" means appreciated/praised, not appreciative. Although I agree with the form, "solicited" seems more appropriate as translation.
--
Just a thought, maybe there is a connection between Muhammad, the messenger of the god and his glorious, praised station (1778-79)
-
You shall hold the salat at the waning of the sun, until the darkness of the night; and the Quran at dawn; the Quran at dawn has been witnessed.
-
And from the night you shall reflect upon it additionally for yourself, perhaps/soon your Lord will raise you to a Glorious/Praised Station (maqaman mahmoodan).
What do you think?
-
-
Salaam Marie,
See http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2161
Joe
Thanks for the link, I forget it ops
The context of 1778-80 seems to yield to such an understanding of mahmadun (appreciative). In reaching out to God (1778-79) one will be established as appreciative (1779) and give such humbleness and petition to Allah (1780).
Well said!
-
Peace all,
Edip replied to my post on 19.org and raised some good points regarding my post. I thought I'd relay my answer to those points as I feel it clarifies a little better what I said originally.
Khatam, or seal, closes and protects the letter. If it means authentication, then Muhammad should be the authentication of messengers too. But, the verse does not include messengers to this particular mission.
He fulfils that role in 3737 where the messengers are also 'confirmed'. Note that the bringing (delivering) is confirmed.
I think the difference is subtle between messenger and prophet - but a stamp can only occur on a document and the prophets brought pages/books thus the stamp of authentication on the prophets.
As for the claim of Muhammad not being a proper name; knowing the grammar of the four verses where it occurs, I see it a futile attemp to discuss it with someone who have no clue about the original language and o top of that is a customer of miraculous conspiracy theories.
But, when I have time, and if you are still asserting such a linguistically and historically autragous idea, then, I will inshallah explain it.
I apologise for this part. It's from an older understanding and I haven't updated the "is" a messenger part either when I wrote this.
Better is...
3340 Muhammad was not the father of any of your men, but (he was) a messenger of God, and the authentication of the prophets and God has full knowledge of all things.
As far as letters go - I don't have information that letters were closed shut with the stamp (this is true for later times when wax stamped would 'seal' the letter.); but rather the stamp would confirm that the letter was from the said party. It was a stamp authenticating the letter - sultans would stamp their fermans to give authentication/authority.
Thus I see the khatem-an-nabiyan as God saying that Muhammad was his stamp of authentication for the prophets who brought scriptures.
3737 is the counterpart verse where Muhammad brings Truth confirming the messengers (the role of messengers being delivery/bringing).
The stamp/seal may imply closure - I am not denying this. However the meaning does not mean finalised and I tried to show using other instances why I thought so.
Also when hearts are stamped for example - is the stamp a final event or does it merely authenticate that person as a disbeliever - a marked man - so to speak.
Moreover the stamp on hearts etc is implied to be removable in 646. I am not saying that this means that the khatem is removable in the instance of 3340 but rather that the meaning is not final/last - but authentication.
If another prophet were to be sent - that person would then be the stamp of authentication on the prophets before them.
Do you see the difference?
Peace.