The word Allah has been absolutely discarded. . .
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Peace,
You have now forced rudeness.
Wrong, it is who you keep repeating faulty, void logic, insisting on your own fantasy of being god yourself/there existing no deity at all (which is infact, ironically a logical contradiction btw ~ you cannot be a god if you do not exist).Really ? okay let just go through a simple test, to see the level of your logic and capability to identify valid and logical premises . . . .
Let's make it simple. . do you understand the "structure of an argument" and "legal or word structure of the Quran" ?
or. .even simpler, can you read statutory law?
For example. ..
Penal Code Fabricating false evidence
- Whoever causes any circumstances to exist, or makes any false entry in any book or record, or makes any document containing a false statement, intending that such circumstance, false entry, or false statement may appear in evidence in a judicial proceeding, or in a proceeding taken by law before a public servant as such, or before an arbitrator, and that such circumstance, false entry or false statement, so appearing in evidence, may cause any person, who in such proceeding is to form an opinion upon the evidence, to entertain an erroneous opinion touching any point material to the result of such proceeding, is said ?to fabricate false evidence?.
Let say you are the Prosecutor, how many elements do you need to prove for charging a person on the offence of fabricating false evidence?
ie. for establishing a prima facie case. . .
Can you list each of the elements from the above section?
So that we can say the offender is committing an offence of fabricating false evidence. . .Please also draft the charges. . .
the above is far much easier than the Quran because the context and structure are very clear. . .the Quran, is not like that.
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The statement means that there are no other objects except this one special object, so there is only one object, essentially. If you cannot make any sense of that...
Either get professional help or believe as the people had believed when the Quran was revealed and as other scriptures of God were revealed. No one except The God can help you/guide you. But since you believe that The God does not exist, then there is absolutely no one who can help/guide you.
see ? you don't even understand the issue, or don't even read. . . . and yet claiming so many things that are irrelevant to this discussion, just to feed your ego gratification . . .
how could anyone argue with those who don't even understand the issue and does not provide any premises ? argument by repetition? brickwall
Let us give an example. The Arabic statement La rajulun illa Ali can be translated literally as ?There is no real man except/but Ali? or ?There is no man like Ali? or ?Among the men none are Ali?s alike? (note that all of these statements denote there are in fact other men, but they are not like Ali).
However, when the word illa is used in conjunction with the word ALLAH it does not mean ?a god like Allah?, that is, it should not be understood as ?there other gods, but none are like Allah?, as the very meaning denoted by the word ALLAH invalidates this supposition from the onset.
Just as the auxiliary verb was (khaane), when used in conjunction with Allah, loses its general meaning and is taken as the present simple tense, when the word except (illa) appears next to the word Allah it also loses its general connotation and is taken to mean only.
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Peace,
You have now forced rudeness.
Wrong, it is who you keep repeating faulty, void logic, insisting on your own fantasy of being god yourself/there existing no deity at all (which is infact, ironically a logical contradiction btw ~ you cannot be a god if you do not exist)."No object except/only The Object"
This clearly is referring to something special (a special object discarding all other objects). Does this mean that objects do not exist altogether? NO! you would have to be you know, incredibly stupid to take that to mean that objects don't exist altogether.
The statement means that there are no other objects except this one special object, so there is only one object, essentially. If you cannot make any sense of that...thenEither get professional help or believe as the people had believed when the Quran was revealed and as other scriptures of God were revealed. No one except The God can help you/guide you. But since you believe that The God does not exist, then there is absolutely no one who can help/guide you.
http//3.bp.blogspot.com/--h4eLCX9klE/UZHjEBYfY2I/AAAAAAAADoo/W5bcUQjtXls/s1600/thumb-up-facebook-emoticon-like-symbol.png
http//2.bp.blogspot.com/-5fCLJhXeqoo/UZJzcoV187I/AAAAAAAADrU/bbSHAULZU4E/s1600/star-symbol-for-facebook.png Eccellente! http//2.bp.blogspot.com/-5fCLJhXeqoo/UZJzcoV187I/AAAAAAAADrU/bbSHAULZU4E/s1600/star-symbol-for-facebook.png
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Finally, you found your mate. . . . good for you.
The statement means that there are no other objects God except this one special object God, so there is only one object God, essentially.
Red, bold and stroke are mine . . .
The argument from duality. . . .shirk.
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I can't believe it, incredible - you actually equated God with object.
I.E. God = objectThere is no way you can treat this with the same nature.
See, this proves and shows a height of stupidity.
My statement was an example for understanding a basic concept. Never did I say that God = object. You really do twist words well, that's the only thing you do well. Your logic cannot be called logic, at all.
And if you are implying that belief in The Only God is shirk, then I don't know where on earth you learned logic from, because the whole bulk of the text of the Quran, revolves around this very concept.
ADDITIONALLY, this "muslim athiesm" is a complete contradiction and a fallacy. Athiesm is belief in no god/diety and hence no judgement day no resurrection/no accounting/no responsibility contradicting and mocking and ridiculing the entire Quran and all of God's revelations. While "muslim" although now skewed by extremists like isis and athiests, such as yourself, refers to the complete opposite.
I explain for the last time. "No god except/only The God".
Beyond any doubt this means that there were other "false" gods that people worshipped. Allat, uzza and manat for example, this is from the Quran itself. These were only names(and so not gods/false gods) they assigned to their statues, stones or whatever - it doesn't matter. The Quran teaches that all of these gods are false, they are not gods (no god) there is only One true God - The God english for arabic "Allah" (except/only The God).
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I can't believe it. . who are stupid in here ? You don't even understand what is a stroke, and interpret it as equal to Allah. Maybe there is something wrong with your heart. . it is so obvious. Nevermind, don't answer the question I gave you, I doubt you are able to understand the issue, it is too difficult for your level.
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It is clear there are "negative form" and "affirmative form" in the shahada, two contradicting premises. . .
Premise 1 No god ("-" negative form)
Premise 2 Only Allah ("+" affirmative form)ISSUE Allah is "God" or "Not God" ?
Contradiction "no god" vs. "is god"
I don't see the problem..
If I understand it correctly you are trying to suggest that the statement "There is no god but God" is contradictory?
I don't know Arabic but in English this makes perfect sense and is not contradictory at all.
For example; Pretend an alien from another galaxy is teleported to Earth. It materialises in my backyard. Once it meets me it starts asking questions until night time. When it sees the moon it asks me
"Where are your other moons?"It would not be contradictory at all for me to answer "We have no moon but this moon"
or
If I have a banana and you ask me for two bananas it would make perfect sense for me to say "I have no bananas except this banana".
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Therefore, it nullify the first premise of "? illa" . . . and duality in the shahada.
illa Allah cannot mean except Allah, which denotes the existence of others, but must be understood as only Allah!
. . .
I don't know Arabic but in English this makes perfect sense and is not contradictory at all.
this is not about about English, Arabic or what you feel about something as right/wrong . . . (conjecture/guessing)
this is about logic. . the methodology for verification of truth in any statements, ie. proof . . .ie. through all true premises.So what is logic? Briefly speaking, we might define logic as the study of the principles of correct reasoning.
Logic is not the psychology of reasoning
One thing you should note about this definition is that logic is concerned with the principles of correct reasoning. Studying the correct principles of reasoning is not the same as studying the psychology of reasoning. Logic is the former discipline, and it tells us how we ought to reason if we want to reason correctly. Whether people actually follow these rules of correct reasoning is an empirical matter, something that is not the concern of logic.
The psychology of reasoning, on the other hand, is an empirical science. It tells us about the actual reasoning habits of people, including their mistakes. A psychologist studying reasoning might be interested in how people's ability to reason varies with age. But such empirical facts are of no concern to the logician.
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If one understands, God is unknown, unthinkable, invisible etc.. all those properties lead to an entity that's not understandable by human.
So Human consciousness are in one end and unknown God on the other end, always higher and elevated position, as always for us.you are right in a sense "muslims", "there is no known god, except the unknown one". )
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That's what I believe from the logical structures of the Quran and its verses . . no one knows Allah, and God is only basic description, not absolute.
There is no one equal/comparable/co-equal to Him. (112.4)
matter, idea and concept etc. .
Therefore, any attempt to describe Allah as God, in absoluteness. . . will fall short or even hoax, especially that kind of God that act and think like a man. . have organs, feets, face, hands, feelings, like, dislike, and the sectarianism God etc.
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not about incorrect to say no one knows Allah. . . but it is correct to say no one knows Allah.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606580.msg352512#msg352512
Why is it incorrect to say "No one knows God"?
double negative. . . so what you say has no basis, ie. "Why is it correct to say "one knows God"?"
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The contradiction from wrong interpretation. . . the proof.
Modus tollens
Premise 1 If P then Q.
Premise 2 Not-Q.Therefore, not-P.
Premise 1 If Allah then God.
Premise 2 No God. <- doesn't matter small "g" or capital "G", since the argument is only "God" exits.Therefore, No Allah.
P Q
? Q? P
Allah God
? God? Allah
Therefore,
P Q. . .
Allah GodNo God (Duality/Shirk),
Only Allah (Oneness/Unity in Diversity)The word "God" is only description for human understanding, since no one can understand "Allah" on its own. . the Oneness
and therefore the word "God" shall be subjected to the "interpretation provision" in Chapter 112.I just realize that there is not even a single word of "Allah" in the monotheist translation. . . claim to absoluteness. P
Since there is not a single word of Allah, therefore. . . there is no interpretation provision for Allah, no Allah, only God.
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Hello muslims,
God does not think like any man but it is Allah who is a god. I am not sure where you get it from.
What others think of God is irrelevant if they portray God as a man with organs etc. Allah is portrayed similarly to a grumpy old man with beard by sectarian Muslims so what kind of difference does it make if you say the English equivalent of 'the god' or Al - ilah?
"There is no god other than the god" does not contradict itself.
There is no god - fine is a logical phrase saying no god
But in the grammar it continues
"EXCEPT THE GOD" so except the god there is no god. The entity with the rank of god, 'the god' is the only one of that position.
Same with the Arabic equivalent. It says the same but in Arabic.
I said that Allah/God is a title for a position of power and there is only one in possession of that rank. How many times do I have to parrot the same easy answer?
And what is the problem with your double negatives?Where do you have a double negative? Do you even know what a double negative is?
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Allah = the god
No god OTHER THAN the god.
Allah is also a description for the god for human comprehension. It is used so that we can have a word to refer to The Master because we need a reference. It is used since god/ilah has been used for millennia to describe a certain position of power as I have repeated several times to no avail. The rank has been given to many imagined gods such as Jupiter, Frey, Moon etc, AND the god clarifies that it is the only one who has the rank of a god in existence.
And the god says that there is no other with this rank in existence. Pretty simple logic, is it not?
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God does not think like any man but it is Allah who is a god. I am not sure where you get it from.
You don't ?
How about the sectarian God ?
God who hates everyone, except Muslim in their denomination ?
God that hates those who read the Quran but will put someone in hell simply because they didn't agree with opinion of others?
Where did this God come from ?
Allah or Self God ?
. . .
"There is no god other than the god" does not contradict itself.
You are just insisting and repeating your argument; for hundred of times. . .and without answering the issue I have raised about "duality" etc
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606683.msg353646#msg353646
Neither you show how it is not contradicting through the principle of logic.
Do they not reflect on the Qur'an? <-- is referring to the interpretation
If it was from any other than God <-- wrong interpretation
they would have found in it many a discrepancy. <-- one or more false premises , it is not the correct interpretation
482. . .
And what is the problem with your double negatives?Where do you have a double negative? Do you even know what a double negative is?
Where this comes from ? confused
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606683.msg353712#msg353712
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Peace,
I don't understand you muslims. Because on the one hand in another thread, you say that you are god and now you agree with us that it is the unknown force/power/the undefinable.
We believe in the unknown power, force, whatever you want to call it(All the best powerful names are for it). The Quran refers to it as The God. So that is God for us. We don't have any description for it, it is not comprehensible to us, and is not imaginable to us in any visual whatsoever. We know only the attributes that are revealed to us through the Quran, I.e. Mighty, Merciful, Powerful, All Knowing etc and we believe in all its commandments and revelations through its chosen prophets.
As at the very first instance, I think you are still confused even though the Quran is very clear on this. You don't need human written statutory laws to understand the Quran but you need an open heart and The God's mercy and guidance to understand it. All these mathematical operators and man made formal logic is irrelevant. The Arabic language is sufficient.
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I don't understand you muslims. Because on the one hand in another thread, you say that you are god and now you agree with us that it is the unknown force/power/the undefinable.
Nope . . doesn't say like that. Please read again.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606632.msg352642#msg352642
. . .
As at the very first instance, I think you are still confused even though the Quran is very clear on this.
Oh.. personal fallacy. So how can you ascertain the truth without the consistency from all true premises from the Quran ?
Interpretating it in any manner as you like ? laugh
RULE No valid argument can have one or more false premises and a true conclusion, garbage in garbage out.
http//s8.postimg.org/t7xckvyz9/logic.png
Quranic Logic
T = True
F = False
X = Premise 1 (verses from the Quran)
Y = Premise 2 (facts or issue)
X+Y = Conclusion (decision)And DO NOT <- Allah say "DO NOT", obey or disobey? Islam or Deniers?
mix <- " X " or " Y " section
the Truth <- symbol " T " above
with Falsehood <- symbol "F " above
(242)O People of the Scripture
why do you confuse
the Truth <- symbol " T " above
with Falsehood <- symbol "F " above
(371)I doubt your interpretation . . not to mention about the premises, but you can't even understand simple issue and using fallacy in your argument.
. . .
You don't need human written statutory laws to understand the Quran but you need an open heart and The God's mercy and guidance to understand it. All these mathematical operators and man made formal logic is irrelevant. The Arabic language is sufficient.
How about critical thinking and enhancing sensory perception ?
"Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah
are the deaf and dumb
who do not use reason"
(8.22)http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606564.msg350911#msg350911
You are talking nonsense, everything in this world are subjected to the law of cause and effect. . .
and you been living in your illusion, your "Parental Deity". -
Fine by us, keep doubting then. The arabic is very clear here. There is no room for intrepretation in " " they are clear. And is one of them.
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There is no issue of duality and that is why I repeat it over and over and over again and I will not cease.
I showed you in the previous post on child level of presentation about "no god but the god" and why it would not contradict itself but is a very straightforward argument.
No one knows 'the god' and what does that have to do with this and in which way would it cause any inconcistency? Even if we do not know the god we know information from the god and also know that there is just one of that rank.
Allah hates people all over the world too according to some people, why is it any different. It is just a matter of translation of the title Allah into English.
If there would be contradiction in the Quran it would be from other than the god, why do you parrot the same irrelevant passage all the time? This is why I just repeat the same response over and over again. I have no other response to it.