This is more reasonable about 33:40

Mazhar

I obey the messenger when I follow what was issued in the decree.

Yes that is the way. I follow the decree, in letter and spirit, obeying the elevated Messenger. The Messenger is first in timeline then comes to us the decree. Don't reverse the sequence, once one believes in the Book.

Man_of_Faith

Mazhar,

The Messenger is first in timeline then comes to us the decree.

You still do not understand and you keep your elevated messenger more highly than the decree. You are indeed lost. You cannot do anything without mentioning the messenger.

The messengers relay a message; I have told many times, and we can choose to obey and follow the decree or if we were already following the decree so thus we received a good sign that God is present in our lives. But you must no matter what you do always involve your elevated messenger while we follow the word of God and not the word of some man. You do not follow the word of Muhammad when you adhere to the words of the book called Qur'an.

Don't reverse the sequence, once one believes in the Book decree.

See; you do not even know what al-ketaab stands for. Really what do you think it means to "obey the messenger"? Obey the messenger is to follow the decree as issued by God and if you already follow the decree then you have already obeyed a messenger in the past before the one that tells you to obey, so you can just smile and be happy that God shows you a sign unless you do not follow the decree as your messenger told in the past then you may be warned by him and obey the new messenger.

And the decree is the same as it has been for thousands of years, the decree has never changed. So if a man says he follows Moses and does so wholeheartedly and really follow him without hypocrisy then he has not much to fear from the words of a new messenger that comes around, but of course he can and should assist the messenger in the cause of God. Eventually the messenger goes back to God however, so you cannot assist the messenger once gone, although you should still keep the unity within the assembly of God and uphold the decree.

And in your talk there is much singular elevated messenger as you give much obsession with the one named Muhammad and you seem to even focus more on commemorating him rather than really talking about what should be done. You even shook it off when I talked about if you really knew then we should rush for good deeds. We can ask ourselves the question about hypocrisy. You fight more to protect the honor of your "elevated messenger" than talking about the wisdom of what should be done in the light of God also as taught by the one that you protect desperately. You can with happiness talk for hours about the "contact prayer" or salat as a ritual, but are not the Pagans obsessed with such a practice too?

The Messenger is first in timeline then comes to us the decree.

You swear that God will put me in the lowest pit of Hell, but just showing these words to me one can question who will truly be thrown there in Hell. You even put the messenger with capital 'M' in singular as to silently idolize your elevated messenger. Messengers come and messengers go, but the decree remains.

Mazhar

Mazhar,

You still do not understand and you keep your elevated messenger more highly than the decree. You are indeed lost. You cannot do anything without mentioning the messenger.

The messengers relay a message; I have told many times, and we can choose to obey and follow the decree or if we were already following the decree so thus we received a good sign that God is present in our lives. But you must no matter what you do always involve your elevated messenger while we follow the word of God and not the word of some man. You do not follow the word of Muhammad when you adhere to the words of the book called Qur'an.

See; you do not even know what al-ketaab stands for. Really what do you think it means to "obey the messenger"? Obey the messenger is to follow the decree as issued by God and if you already follow the decree then you have already obeyed a messenger in the past before the one that tells you to obey, so you can just smile and be happy that God shows you a sign unless you do not follow the decree as your messenger told in the past then you may be warned by him and obey the new messenger.

And the decree is the same as it has been for thousands of years, the decree has never changed. So if a man says he follows Moses and does so wholeheartedly and really follow him without hypocrisy then he has not much to fear from the words of a new messenger that comes around, but of course he can and should assist the messenger in the cause of God. Eventually the messenger goes back to God however, so you cannot assist the messenger once gone, although you should still keep the unity within the assembly of God and uphold the decree.

And in your talk there is much singular elevated messenger as you give much obsession with the one named Muhammad and you seem to even focus more on commemorating him rather than really talking about what should be done. You even shook it off when I talked about if you really knew then we should rush for good deeds. We can ask ourselves the question about hypocrisy. You fight more to protect the honor of your "elevated messenger" than talking about the wisdom of what should be done in the light of God also as taught by the one that you protect desperately. You can with happiness talk for hours about the "contact prayer" or salat as a ritual, but are not the Pagans obsessed with such a practice too?
You swear that God will put me in the lowest pit of Hell, but just showing these words to me one can question who will truly be thrown there in Hell. You even put the messenger with capital 'M' in singular as to silently idolize your elevated messenger. Messengers come and messengers go, but the decree remains.

Pagans and Muna'fi'qeen have one thing common

Pagans say why they be guided through the Messenger; why not Angels come to them; Why not verbal passages are communicated to them; and when they cannot answer or rebut any of the communication given by the Messenger, they start progpagating in people that he is obsessed, possessed. The Messenger is the problem issue for the Pagans.

Muna'fi'qeen are worst people than the Pagans because they falsely proclaim to belong to the company of believers but have the same problem issue the Messenger.

I am already told the views that you have expressed in quote which are peculiar trait of Muna'fi'qeen
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/4.142a.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.09a.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/4.142b.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.142.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.142b.gif
Indeed the Muna'fi'qeen Imposter Believers seek by contrary to fact verbal proclamation to beguile Allah the Exalted;

While the fact is that He the Exalted lets them engulfed in their deceptive perception by leaving them as discarded/condemned.

And when they get up to join the Ass-sa'laat congregation they stand reluctantly and irritant with heavy heart. They just stand for feigning to people that they are believers.

And they do not remember Allah the Exalted except occasionally.

Muna'fi'qeen will get the worst end as compared to Pagans

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.145.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.145a.gif

Know the fact; Muna'fi'qeen the Imposter believers will certainly be placed in the lowest-worst class of the Hell-Prison.

And you the Messenger will never find anyone inclined for helping them.

Be happy. Try to live in future if you wish not to be in the past.

savage_carrot

Calling people derogatory titles instead of addressing the issues is not acceptable. Consider this a warning.

Mazhar

Calling people derogatory titles instead of addressing the issues is not acceptable. Consider this a warning.

What is the derogatory title in the quote, madam

savage_carrot

Munafiqeen, good sir. If you want any further discussion/questions about this, please use the PM function.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Thanks savage_carrot for helping in breaking it here.

Have faith

Mazhar

Munafiqeen, good sir. If you want any further discussion/questions about this, please use the PM function.

Munafiqeen it is valid word and term in the Qur'aan, issue warning to Allah for this derogatory word, otherwise delte your warning post from the forum.

savage_carrot

Since you're not Allah, please follow the Forum Rules.

1] The Administrator and Moderator has the final say on all interpretation and implementation of forum rules and guidelines. Any questions about these decisions should be inquired to any of the moderators through a private message (PM) for clarification.

Get back to the topic and/or use the PM function.

Mazhar

Some more information in the Qur'aan about the topic

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/9.67.gif

Mazhar

The judgment of Allah the Exalted is very contradictory to the opinion of many people who think that by mentioning the Last Messneger of Allah respectfully and with honours is idolatory. There are people in the world who elevate and equate Easa alahissalam to the extent of saying that he is Allah, and some others say Allah is third in the trinity. But Allah the Exalted has not declared them idolators-worshippers of idols.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.072a.gif Same verdict in same words in 517 and 572

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.073.gif

Man_of_Faith

Mazhar,

God just says that you should refrain from saying trinity for your own good and slams the claim of Jesus as the son of a god completely almost so you feel God is angry in the narration. And you come here and defend idolatry...

Mazhar

The sentences of the Ayahs quoted are declrative, jugemental not imperative or advisory. Those are seperate Ayahs. Their statement is not declared as idolatory but is declared as denial of the absolute traits of Allah the Exalted through that assertion.
Their statement is dential of Chapter 112 of Qur'aan.

Man_of_Faith

I am just shaking my head. Go on with your religion.

Bender

@ Bender & Jafar

Brothers, looks like you two have met with people who you consider to be the messenger/s.

May I know what they say to you? Whether you receive some valuable messages from them?

Perhaps both of you can share to us about the lessons that you know from them.

Salm.

Salaam,

RED Messengers of Allah are transmitting a message from Allah. What do you think a message from Allah contains?

Salaam,
Bender

Mazhar

The Omnipresent, Perpetual, the Absolute is He the Exalted Who gradually communicated the Criterion to the Sincere Allegiant of Him the Exalted .
The purpose of communication of the Criterion Qur'aan is that he may retain the status of a Revivalist-Warner-Awakener for peoples in time and space - the Worlds.

And had Our Majesty so decided-willed, We would have appointed a Warner in every town.

Bender

Pagans and Muna'fi'qeen have one thing common

Pagans say why they be guided through the Messenger; why not Angels come to them; Why not verbal passages are communicated to them; and when they cannot answer or rebut any of the communication given by the Messenger, they start progpagating in people that he is obsessed, possessed. The Messenger is the problem issue for the Pagans.

Muna'fi'qeen are worst people than the Pagans because they falsely proclaim to belong to the company of believers but have the same problem issue the Messenger.

I am already told the views that you have expressed in quote which are peculiar trait of Muna'fi'qeen
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/4.142a.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.09a.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/4.142b.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.142.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.142b.gif
Indeed the Muna'fi'qeen Imposter Believers seek by contrary to fact verbal proclamation to beguile Allah the Exalted;

While the fact is that He the Exalted lets them engulfed in their deceptive perception by leaving them as discarded/condemned.

And when they get up to join the Ass-sa'laat congregation they stand reluctantly and irritant with heavy heart. They just stand for feigning to people that they are believers.

And they do not remember Allah the Exalted except occasionally.

Muna'fi'qeen will get the worst end as compared to Pagans

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.145.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.145a.gif

Know the fact; Muna'fi'qeen the Imposter believers will certainly be placed in the lowest-worst class of the Hell-Prison.

And you the Messenger will never find anyone inclined for helping them.

Be happy. Try to live in future if you wish not to be in the past.

Salaam,

Truly beautiful ayaats you quoted

4142

4145

Please reread your post again.

Salaam,
Bender

JavaLatte

RED Messengers of Allah are transmitting a message from Allah. What do you think a message from Allah contains?

Have faith in Allah, glorify Him, and believe in the hereafter.
Obey the commandments of Allah, and have patience in our obedience.
Trust in Allah and follow the truth.

Did you receive such messages from him/them?

Salm.

huruf

What I personnally have most appreciated and hit me from people who I considered spiritually inspired is the clearness the simplicity of it all. As if suddenly all that is encumbrace, mental or emotional was disipated and you see with clarity that things couldn't be simpler. It is not that you are not going to have problems on this earth, but that they take a comletely diferent aspect and dimension. And you gain peace, and conformity with is not somber resignation, but real peace. Because everything that happens to us is meant to ennoble us. To make us mor enoble humans. God really is there, is here, is with us, knows, caresses...

Salaam

Man_of_Faith

Peace huruf,

I suppose you may remember the beginning of my Nearness and Guidance thread where I speak of how simple a foundation the faith rests on. I mean it is to have faith and do/be good really. The some simple rules on top of that not taking really a rocket scientist to be able to understand.

And I have in truth not made it complicated lately either just went into a study of the word salat etc.

In fact I have another theory of the word salat again which is better than the one about just unity. This time I think it may not just be a theory but that I have actually "nailed" the right definition. I will go through it eventually for those interested, maybe sooner than later, God willing. The relief is how simple in meaning salat is after you will have heard it and "Islam" is really easy as a system and command, only that "conjecturers" make it seem complicated (and ritualistic).

Salat is connected with the word communion, but I admit that neither do people understand what I am talking about nor is it descriptive in any way. The new elaboration I think everyone will understand.

Most of the faith is practiced with the heart, the conscience. Therefore it is negative for humans having polluted hearts.

Have faith