POLYGAMY A BLOT ON MUSLIMS
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As a woman, I know that a woman actually want to marry a man whom she loves.
Even if a woman is a poor widow with many children, I think her true heart is still longing to marry with the man she loves and loves her as well.
WHAT KIND OF JUSTICE IS THAT IF THE WIDOWS HAVE TO MARRY THEIR "WEALTHY GUARDIANS" (WITHOUT LOVE) IN ORDER TO FEED THEIR CHILDREN??
DOES THE POOR WIDOW HAVE TO MARRY A MAN ONLY FOR FINANCIAL PURPOSE??
MARRIED FOR MONEY?? DOES IT JUSTICE??
Why not helping her to find suitable good husband, who able to take care of her and her children, but before they're married, make sure they have no objection marrying each other. Even though perhaps they're still not feeling in love, I think that at least man and woman need to like each other before they decide to marry.
Any people should be given the right to marry without any compulsion.
I don't protest those (men and women) who are truly willing to join polygamous family, but don't press anyone who aren't willing to do that even if they're poor.
Salm.
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Peace,
It is important to know, Java latte, that in the beginning of the (in)famous 434 the word '' you know I spoke about which is wrong traditionally interpreted takes part. This means the translation ought to look slightly different there. Now when my search for the rightful interpretation of salat is finally over I can focus on injustice such as polygamy. The decree should be as the decree was once revealed to mankind and not according to conjecture by men.
Have faith
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As a woman, I know that a woman actually want to marry a man whom she loves.
Even if a woman is a poor widow with many children, I think her true heart is still longing to marry with the man she loves and loves her as well.
WHAT KIND OF JUSTICE IS THAT IF THE WIDOWS HAVE TO MARRY THEIR "WEALTHY GUARDIANS" (WITHOUT LOVE) IN ORDER TO FEED THEIR CHILDREN??
DOES THE POOR WIDOW HAVE TO MARRY A MAN ONLY FOR FINANCIAL PURPOSE??
MARRIED FOR MONEY?? DOES IT JUSTICE??
Why not helping her to find suitable good husband, who able to take care of her and her children, but before they're married, make sure they have no objection marrying each other. Even though perhaps they're still not feeling in love, I think that at least man and woman need to like each other before they decide to marry.
Any people should be given the right to marry without any compulsion.
I don't protest those (men and women) who are truly willing to join polygamous family, but don't press anyone who aren't willing to do that even if they're poor.
Salm.
But that is what the aya says. It is addressed like the previous and the fo9llowing ayas, to the community, and it is a question of sponsoring marriages, so that no economic or sociaol hindrance is put on marrying women with children without fathers either because of social prejudice or because of because of shortage of means.
Do not forget, single mothers. Those were mothers of fatherless children, they are told to see that those women and children could have stable and wel taken care for families. This aya, like so many have been deviated to a question of poligamy. But it is not there. We know that wealthy widows and beautiful, clever women do not have a problem to marry or remarry, no need to turn the eyes of the community to that and no need for the Qur'an to give particular injunctions concerning that. That is no problem.
But marrying socially outcast women, like single mothers, it is a problem and it has nothing to do with forcing women to marry anybody but with changing peoples hearts so that a good society really encloses and protect all its members, not only the "acceptable" ones. Also by making it a question of the community sponsoring those marriages, those who might be willing to marry the women, but fear social rejection would be encouraged and not discouraged. That is, that kind of marriage would be socially acceptable. And therefore normal marriages that might otherwise take place, but that do not occur due to social rejection of those women, could then take place.
Concerning the social mores in the Qur'an we seem to be in a cloud of unreality concerning women. NO women have ever had to be anything but honourably married women or honourable widiows. In spite of how loose social mores might have been or how male chauvinists men may have been, and therefore how numerous may have been the women with children but no father, because of being undeclared, or because of being outright denier of the fatherhood. It is our imagination only which says that those women do not exist in the Qur'an, that is in any of the social environments that come into question in the Qur'an, that is that we refuse to allow for the Qur'an to deal with things we suppose are not, as to the women, 100% honourable. But if men were or are not honourable, there must have been, there must be lots of women placed in an outcast social position.
In fact, researcher Faatima Mernissi says in one of her books that those women were indeed very, very common in the social set up. And I do not wonder, they have been always very common. Not in muslims countries now, because in some of those countries those children are forcibly taken away from the mother and put in orphanages. So no problem, no single mothers, but orphanages full.
That is not what the Qur'an says. The Qur'an does not speak of orhanages.
Salaam
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Peace Noon
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Do you believe that ANKIHU has only one meaning?
Yes.
I don't have any right to change your mindset
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PROVE THAT BY MARRYING THE "YOUR OTHER WOMEN", THE GUARDIANS WILL DELIVER JUSTICE TO THE ORPHANS?
PROVE THAT BY MARRYING MMA THE GUARDIAN WILL DELIVER JUSTICE TO THE ORPHANS
THE GUARDIAN BY MARRYING OTHER WOMEN OR MMA WOMEN WILL NOT DELIVER JUSTICE TO THE ORPHANS BUT WILL DELIVER JUSTICE TO HIS SEXUAL DESIRES yeah
No reply
Prove bereaved widows (with children) who agree to marry are all gorgeous and men only have desires?
There is no such bereaved widows (with children) in verse 43
422 and not thou marry/sex yeh whom marry/sex fathers yours from the womenfolk
common sense prevails
For those who swear not to have sexual relations WITH their wives is a waiting time of four months, but if they return - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (Al-Baqara 226
Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever does that has nothing WITH Allah....328
And do not marry those women. WITH whom your fathers married
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PROVE THAT IT IS A CLEAR CUT COMMAND TO ALL BELIEVERS TO MARRY UP TO FOUR WOMEN
Why, you wrote it?
I am against polygamy therefore I will never write that 43 is command to ALL BELIEVERS. It is for you to prove that 43 is a command to ALL BELIEVERS to marry four women. The verse is not directly addressed to the believers, but to mankind, There is no verse in the Quran where it says "O ye who believe Marry one two three or four women" You people twist the verse for your own convenience.
Why not allowed two sisters?
423 prohibited on you mothers yours and daughters yours ?
and that thou gather yeh between the sisters two ?Two sisters are in the list of prohibition and not lawful.
Please clarify question (use lower case) and what you mean do men marry males ? translate this verse?
When you translate ANIHU as marry then it translates as "Marry from/among women" the mention of women in the verse conveys another message that men also marry men. It is but natural that men marry women and even Allah knows about it and when it is known by Allah then what necessitated Allah to command men to marry FROM/AMONG women. It is a logical question.
4129 and never thou be able yeh (m/p) that thou justice/equivalence yeh between the womenfolk and in case ardent desire yours so not inclined yeh each the tendency so leave her like the suspended one and if thou reconcile yeh and pious yeh so surely the god be forgiver merciful
4130 and if are separated will enrich the god each from abundance his ...You translated NISSA as womenfolk which is wrong. It is not women but wives.There are millions of women around the world then BETWEEN which women you will never do justice/equivalence. My dear brother it is BETWEEN WIVES and not the common women. Allah knowingly will not allow multiple wives when He knows that men can NEVER do justice /deal justly BETWEEN WIVES
I asked simple question in reply to your translation ?marry off?
2827 said that I I want that (translate?) any/one daughters mine these two?
Please translate word in context ? what did he want?
Perhaps not count so much on the masters of Arabic do your own translations.There are many many words in Arabic language which have multiple meanings therefore care must be taken while applying which one is the closest to subject/context. There are two meaning of ANKIHU marry and marry off and in the above verse it is marry and not marry off and in verse 43. and 4127 and 2432 it is MARRY OFF. You agree or do not agree it is not my concern
I don't agree with you, it is my personal choice you don't agree with me, it is your personal choice.
We are standing at the two extreme ends therefore there is no point in debating and arguing further and creating animosity between us. Neither you can convince me nor you can change my stance towards polygamy and neither I can convince you nor can change your stance towards polygamy To you is your thinking, interpretation and understanding and to me is my thinking, interpretation and understanding.
Thanks
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Peace all
For those who saY that ANKIHU means marry ONLY
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And MARRY OFF the WIDOWS among you and the righteous among your male servants and female servants. If they should be POOR, Allah will enrich them from His bounty, and Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing 2432
ANKIHU means MARRY/ MARRY OFF/GIVE IN MARRIAGE/ ARRANGE OR FACILITATE MARRIAGE/
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Peace!
I find it unfortunate that people (in general) gets lost in translation. What I mean is that it is very easy to get stuck in a mind set where we treat words as objects or items and then try to match unique objects (i.e. words) of different languages with each other in order to translate a text. I believe we'd be wise to think more about meaning, the underlying meaning and concepts, of the words, and not just the apparent meaning given as a rigid label to a word. When dealing with different languages, we cannot think about language A in terms of language B, because then we'll lose much of the meaning we're trying to convey and translate. Sometimes we can translate one word of one language with one particular word in the other language, but mostly the overlap of the meanings of the two words is not perfect... the meanings do not correspond 100%. Sometimes the meaning in language A includes only a little more than what the corresponding word in language B does, but sometimes there is a big, big difference. Word A may be much more specific than word B.
Like 'baab' in Arabic is translated as 'door' in English, which is alright, BUT these two words actually denote two totally different things. A 'door' is an openable cover or flap, while 'baab' is the actual opening in the wall. In ordinary, everyday use, yes, both means door, but what happens if 'door' or 'baab' are used in other contexts than buildings? What if 'door' then no longer means 'baab'? We should not take anything for granted, but we should try to read the message and actual meaning, and not just the mechanical pairs of words that simple dictionaries give us. We may very well get lost in translation.
So, to me it seems that it is possible that could mean something like 'cause to be married'. Perhaps we cause someone to be married by marrying them directly, or perhaps by arranging a marriage between that person and someone else. If we see it like this then MARRY/ MARRY OFF/GIVE IN MARRIAGE/ ARRANGE OR FACILITATE MARRIAGE/ etc are no longer different things or different meanings. We can find one meaning which includes them all.
Let's tread carefully when handling different languages.
Peace all
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WHAT KIND OF JUSTICE IS THAT IF THE WIDOWS HAVE TO MARRY THEIR "WEALTHY GUARDIANS" (WITHOUT LOVE) IN ORDER TO FEED THEIR CHILDREN??
DOES THE POOR WIDOW HAVE TO MARRY A MAN ONLY FOR FINANCIAL PURPOSE??
MARRIED FOR MONEY?? DOES IT JUSTICE??
But Sister, who says this? Qur'aan has no such injunction. Nikah is a relational word. Woman selects or consents for marrying a particular man. Love or attraction or liking is built in.
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But that is what the aya says.
I like your understanding about polygamy, sister huruf.
But some/many other translations make me upset.
But Sister, who says this? Qur'aan has no such injunction. Nikah is a relational word. Woman selects or consents for marrying a particular man. Love or attraction or liking is built in.
I think some of the translations seem to impress something like that, brother.
For example, it seems that women of MMA don't have full right to refuse marriage proposal from their guardians?
Salm.
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I am surprised how people can make nikah into marriage at all...
Peace
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Peace Ijaz
Is it okay if I share your research/article to hadith followers so they can answer some questions? ;D
Go ahead, but take my words, they do not have any answers.
Thanks
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@ Sister huruf
Forgive me, dear sister.
I made mistake on my post (Reply #3 in this thread. Please read the correction below.
But that is what the aya says.
I like your understanding about polygamy for 43, sister huruf.
But some/many other translations make me upset.
Mathnaa, thulaatha, rubaa3 are two, three or four of a go, that is in twos in threes or in fours. That is the kind of arranged marriage like the collective ones that took place in Gaza some time ago and which were circulated in the net saying that in Gaza they were arrying child girls, which was not so, but nevertheless the slander was circulated, but in fact were marriages of women with orphans whose marriage was arranged by the community for them and the child girls of the photo were in fact the orphan girls of the women who were geting married and the men with the children were the would be husbands.
As to the mamalakat, those are persons, males or females, in charge of other people and who are tied to their protectors by some solmen oath or pact of mutual allegiance, be it as servants, be it as protected people, be it as a husband or wife without dower. Dependent people to some effect.
Salaam
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Salm.
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Peace hafeez kazi
There is no such bereaved widows (with children) in verse 43
Bereaved -
To be deprived of a loved one especially due to their deaththe orphaned/bereaved/widowed/grieving
I am against polygamy therefore I will never write that 43 is command to ALL BELIEVERS.
To marry is a choice among willing participants not a command.
None has right to "marry off" anyone only to suggest marriage.2827 said that I I want that that marry you any/one daughters mine these two
Two sisters are in the list of prohibition and not lawful.
Hence logical proof IF NOT sisters THEN lawful.
You translated NISSA as womenfolk which is wrong. It is not women but wives.
Not all daughters are wives else they don?t inherit.
411
directs you the god in awldikum/children yours
to the male like share al-unthayayni/the two (f/d)so if be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk over ith'natayni/two so for them third dual (2/3) what left
Not all sisters are wives else they don?t inherit.
4176
and if be they siblings rijlan/menfolk wanisan/and womenfolk
so to the male like share al-unthayayni/the two (feminine)shows the god for you lest stray yeh and the god in every thing knower
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Peace Noon
So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. 279
If you fear, (a future tense) (FEAR not explained) pray on foot, or riding, but when ye are in security, celebrate Allah's praises in the manner He has taught you, which ye knew not (before). (2 239)
If you fear (a future tense), (fear is not explained) and the command that follows is to pray on FOOT or RIDING. In clear words it is not a command to PRAY on FOOT or RIDING but to pray on foot or riding ONLY when there is a FEAR (of unexplained), otherwise the believers cannot PRAY on FOOT or RIDING but STANDING. Is it clear?
If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things. (4 35)
If you fear (a future tense), (fear breach between them) and the command that follows is to appoint arbiters to maintain peace. In clear words it is not a command to appoint arbiters but ONLY when there is a FEAR of breach between them otherwise you cannot appoint arbiters. Is it clear?
When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten your prayers, if you fear that the Unbelievers May persecute you For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies. (4 101)
If you fear (a future tense), (fear Disbelievers may persecute) and the command that follows is to SHORTEN the PRAYER. In clear words it is not a command to SHORTEN the PRAYER but to shorten ONLY when there is a FEAR of the unknown enemy, otherwise the prayers have to be offered, as offered normally in peace. Is it clear?
43 is not different from the above three verses but it is exactly in the same format
And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphans then marry those that please you of women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline . (4 3)
If you fear (a future tense) (fear injustice to orphans) and the command that follows is to marry up to four women of your choice or MMA. In clear words it is not a command to marry four wives but to marry four wives ONLY when there is a FEAR that you may do injustice to the orphans otherwise you cannot marry four wives. It is as simple as that.
If you can't understand the simple explanation of the verse then I am really sorry.
After reading the above verses and its interpretations, there is no doubt left that 43 does not give any permission to ALL BELIEVERS four wives. the only condition to marry four wives is the GUARDIANSHIP OF ORPHANS AND FEAR OF INJUSTICE TO THEM.
All the nine verses from 2 to 10 are revealed FOR orphans THERE IS NO WAY that in between Allah will REVEAL AN AMBIGUOUS VERSE, PERTAINING to MEN, TO MARRY FOUR WIVES.
Complete guidelines to mankind pertaining to the orphans from verse 2 to 10.
The subject is not the marriage of the believers but orphans therefore the marriage concerns orphans and not believers.
Please read my article meticulously and try to address the questions which are raised due to the marrying of four wives.
A simple example. To avoid war with AMERICA what will you do, will you attack BRITAIN, GERMANY, RUSSIA and then when you FEAR that you cannot fight equitably between them you attack only ONE country or the most defenseless country. Will these actions of yours, avoid a war with AMERICA. To have peace with America, its involvement is necessary for peace negotiations. You cannot sideline America and attack other countries expecting that it will avoid war with America.
I am getting married to MMA to see how I render justice to the orphans?
Thanks
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I just laugh at this, because I know from God what you do not know.
Observing these disputes with knowledge at hand is amusing.
Peace
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How can we understand the last part of this ayat?Polygamie just for the Prophet?
Sure 33"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makkah) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess in order that there should be no difficulty for Thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (50)" -
Salamun Alaikum.
Just for the record - I withdraw my earlier comments on this thread. I am now convinced Qur'an does not endorse polygamy under any circumstances. I have discussed my current understanding of verse 43 in the below thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606893.msg357550#msg357550
Thanks again to all of you for helping me improve my understanding on this.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Sorry. This post looked a bit excessively sarcastic.