Quran and secularism - A future essay
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Peace Farabi, Reel and Jafar,
Thank you for your posts/comments.
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To Be Secular Is The Ordainment
Peace,
Quran is full of Signs or the Ayats from Allah that governs the all universes. And the Signs are revealed to them who believe in the Signs of Allah so their lives rise high above the Nature to have a say over them by the Leave of Allah.
Man is full of belief in Science or submission to the worldly laws of physiques and physics. Allah has allowed each one a life span on this earth upon a period determined before the end of which period he is taught enough of His Signs that have every power over all the men's sciences and disciplines. Thus Allah has allowed each his lifetime till his death, to observe, to listen and to rise him to the degree to beat the sciences with His Signs. Thus we are ordained to be secular(worldly) as one mankind, till death overtakes every one of us, individually, in a natural way.
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In order to understand what "secular soceity" is you need to study origin of that word/system.
Word "Secular" comes from Latin word "Seclorum" which means "to go apart, withdraw, separate"
This is explanation of Secular system One manifestation of secularism is asserting the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, or, in a state declared to be neutral on matters of belief, from the imposition by government of religion or religious practices upon its people.
Secular in 3. words means "No Creator Allowed" and since Quran is word of Creator, its more than obvious.
I wanna show you occult symbolism on american dollar
https//d1hekt5vpuuw9b.cloudfront.net/assets/cc0823705e1f5629946a1faf45895d16_slide-8-novus-ordo_gallery.jpg
Its says Novus Ordo Seclorum which means New "Secular" World Order and pyramid with an eye on the top is symbol of Egyptian sun god Horus.
Here is popular artist Eminem flashing Eye of Horus satanic symbol to his zombies http//i.ytimg.com/vi/hkS0VgLS2mM/hqdefault.jpg
Any form od Secular(Godless) system is forbidden in islam since muslims have been commanded to live according to Creator's "Law of the Nature" and not men made laws.
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Word "Secular" comes from Latin word "Seclorum" which means "to go apart, withdraw, separate"
The Quran is the only Book that keeps one on his individuality in accordance with the conscience the base of the humaneness. Here is the strongest ordainment that commands secularism.
Say "O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to (each of) you from your God; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your God shall make many of them increase in obstinate rebellion(to go against conscience) and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people."
This means "Seclorum" which means "to go apart, withdraw, separate"
to go apart from the obstinate rebellions to one's own conscience;
to withdraw from the obstinate rebellions to one's own conscience;
to separate from the obstinate rebellions to one's own conscience.Quran is the only Book that speaks of Secularism.
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Quran is the only Book that speaks of Secularism.
So you wanna say that system that is NOT based according to Quran is better than a system that is made according to Quran? In a secular system Quran is forbidden, you know. Things that you have posted has nothing to do with secularism.
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In my view based on my limited knowledge about Quran, Allah does not support Securalism (I meant here Allah and not Quran- I know its word of God) whereby Allah has talked about so many ways, examples, the universe around us, even with ourselves, the purpose of all those verses is one which is to accept God as the ONE creator alone and seek no partners. Now the verses in Quran which people take to support is actually implying that Allah wanted to mention that there will always be some people who after seeing all the signs etc will still NOT accept the existence of One True God so therefore no one, not even prophet can turn their hearts.
I believe the very basis of all revelations is to know the creator (which is anti secularism)
Unless of course if I understood the word Secular wrongly.
http//www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/secular
Not connected with religious or spiritual mattersIf the secular means not following any of the world religions but still believe in one God, then I am wrong and in which case we have example of prophet Ibrahim.
Cheers
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A belief in a Creator simply cannot be institutionalized.
All people won't believe in a Creator.
You cannot force people to believe in a Creator.
A belief in a Creator is personal.HOWEVER... the way we act and behave in society concerns us all.
What we need to do is to discuss and adopt the most beneficial habits and rules for society. This has to be agreed upon, otherwise it is useless. The problem with religion is that it tells people what to think, believe and do, for no other reason than that some book says something (or is interpreted as saying something). Religion says "do this and think this, because God has said so in this book".So, religion is imposing things on you, but in a secular society we can have laws according to God's natural system. But the reasons people will adopt such laws should be based on reasoning and beneficial value to the members of society. Faith is useless here, because everyone will not believe the same anyway. It is however easier to agree on social laws that are designed to keep people safe, free and empowered. Religious societies are doomed. Only societies based on goodness and reality will succeed.
Peace
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In order to understand what "secular soceity" is you need to study origin of that word/system.
Word "Secular" comes from Latin word "Seclorum" which means "to go apart, withdraw, separate"
This is explanation of Secular system One manifestation of secularism is asserting the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, or, in a state declared to be neutral on matters of belief, from the imposition by government of religion or religious practices upon its people.
Secular in 3. words means "No Creator Allowed" and since Quran is word of Creator, its more than obvious.
I wanna show you occult symbolism on american dollar
https//d1hekt5vpuuw9b.cloudfront.net/assets/cc0823705e1f5629946a1faf45895d16_slide-8-novus-ordo_gallery.jpg
Its says Novus Ordo Seclorum which means New "Secular" World Order and pyramid with an eye on the top is symbol of Egyptian sun god Horus.
Here is popular artist Eminem flashing Eye of Horus satanic symbol to his zombies http//i.ytimg.com/vi/hkS0VgLS2mM/hqdefault.jpg
Any form od Secular(Godless) system is forbidden in islam since muslims have been commanded to live according to Creator's "Law of the Nature" and not men made laws.
Thanks for bringing it up Sony. I have a strong feeling that Thomas Jefferson extracted lots of stuffs from Quran for US. Here is a piece from declaration of independence.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
According to his biography, he searched for most unbiased Quran when he was still studying in school. And he didn't call it a scripture, but book of law.
That said, he was a wolf in disguise of sheep like Benjamin Franklin and the rest. In public, he actually criticized Islam. And although that line says "all men are created equal" he didn't live by it. Neither did his pals. American citizenship back then was available to only rich white men who owned lands. The rest went to hell! Also his team didnt like the idea of allowing public to make choice.
The funny thing is that separation of church and state is an illusion. But I guess that's how satan works. Just behave innocent while going around destroying humanity. Yet I would say that its better when priests (of religions) are kept away from national politics!
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In order to understand what "secular soceity" is you need to study origin of that word/system.
Word "Secular" comes from Latin word "Seclorum" which means "to go apart, withdraw, separate"
This is explanation of Secular system One manifestation of secularism is asserting the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, or, in a state declared to be neutral on matters of belief, from the imposition by government of religion or religious practices upon its people.
Secular in 3. words means "No Creator Allowed" and since Quran is word of Creator, its more than obvious.
This is not what secular in the last line I've quoted means. I live in the UK, which is not a secular state, the official religion is the Church of England, which is a protestant division of Christianity. The head of state, the Monarch, is the representative of God for the Church of England. The Church of England receives more recognition, support, and representation on national matters. However secularism means even an infidel like me who is not an adherent to any Christian Church, let alone the Church of England or any other Protestant division, is allowed to practice my own religion pretty much if not entirely freely. Secularism guarentees this right, as it does any citizen to alternatively to believe in the official state church or even no religion at all. The UK is in no way "no creator allowed" as a monotheistic religion is the state religion.
You can have a non-secular state practice secularism, though a secular state is more likely to discriminate against theistic beliefs and practices (ie Turkey, though this is slowly unwinding with time).
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So you wanna say that system that is NOT based according to Quran is better than a system that is made according to Quran? In a secular system Quran is forbidden, you know. Things that you have posted has nothing to do with secularism.
Quran is the Prime Guidance if one wants to lead a life full of freedom from all oppressive population around him and the guidance for him who believes in Only God for anything and everything; and the guidance to who wants to be on top of all walks of life in the skies and in the earth 68/52 by the leave of Allah; on the other hand the man invented secular system is for the have-nots of Quran and who rejects the Guidance from the Almighty, who can believe only in collectively gathered living, one seeking the help of another, thus one burdening the other. Secularism cannot bring harmony between two individuals until each one becomes a free individual, living by the grace of One God. It is impossible to become a free individual in secularism for they have to neglect, reject and throw away the Quran.
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If Im not mistaken secularism is about separating religions with government. For this particular case, western country, the reason they did it is acceptable, because they get sick of the kingdom government who stand not on justice. This kind of religion and government relationship in islam is not known. The quran, remember, the quran, never had any clash with the style of government nor the citizen.
If we see from the basic principle of secularism which is separating religion with government, we will had a clash with the quran, not because the government must be a muslims, but because we need to remember God on everything we did. But the law of the secularism, which is, protection for anyone to choose their religions is supported by the quran. Not just that, if we saw most of the law written on the secularism country, you will not find clash between the quran and the secularism. But saying secularism is the quran way of governing is not true.
I think, there is some point secularism fit the quran and there is some point secularism not fit the quran. But basically, the quran doesnot force people to follow the quran. And if anyone asked, what should we do if we live in the place where the government is a tyrant? The quran said, obey ulil-amri, which is your government among you, but, if they hurt you, dont just stand by, if you cannot defend your self, just run, the earth is big enough for us all.
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Quran is the Prime Guidance if one wants to lead a life full of freedom from all oppressive population around him and the guidance for him who believes in Only God for anything and everything; and the guidance to who wants to be on top of all walks of life in the skies and in the earth 68/52 by the leave of Allah; on the other hand the man invented secular system is for the have-nots of Quran and who rejects the Guidance from the Almighty, who can believe only in collectively gathered living, one seeking the help of another, thus one burdening the other. Secularism cannot bring harmony between two individuals until each one becomes a free individual, living by the grace of One God. It is impossible to become a free individual in secularism for they have to neglect, reject and throw away the Quran.
I do agree with you that my goverment have no right to tell me what to believe but this does not mean that I can do whatever I want. Take west as an example, since church lost its power moral values of the people have been completly destroyed. I do not support church in any way but at least they were able to keep people, more or less on the right path. In the US, church even manage to ban alcohol in 1920's - 1933 which was great win for christianity in US in my opinion. But, since ww2 everything went down when Scofield Bible was introduced to americans.
As Quran says, we should keep everything in balance, not to go too far in religion like saudis do or to far in secularism as West does.
State laws that works without moral values of religion are doomed to fail. -
Thanks for bringing it up Sony. I have a strong feeling that Thomas Jefferson extracted lots of stuffs from Quran for US. Here is a piece from declaration of independence.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
According to his biography, he searched for most unbiased Quran when he was still studying in school. And he didn't call it a scripture, but book of law.
That said, he was a wolf in disguise of sheep like Benjamin Franklin and the rest. In public, he actually criticized Islam. And although that line says "all men are created equal" he didn't live by it. Neither did his pals. American citizenship back then was available to only rich white men who owned lands. The rest went to hell! Also his team didnt like the idea of allowing public to make choice.
The funny thing is that separation of church and state is an illusion. But I guess that's how satan works. Just behave innocent while going around destroying humanity. Yet I would say that its better when priests (of religions) are kept away from national politics!
Well, I heard that Thomas Jefferson was holding Bible in one and Quran in other hand and as him, I also believe that Quran is not "scripture" but "Book of Laws" or, "Law of the Nature". I still do not know much about Thomas Jefferson and his life since I'm not an american and I have no special opinion about him, not yet.
As I said in my last post, I think state laws that works without moral values of religion are doomed to fail. In your country, US, christianity was destroyed by Scofield Bible which later created foundations for terrorist state of Israel. This version of Christianity should be banned, same as wahhabism should be banned in islamic countries. Without balance you have domino effect, combination of secularism and religion is best option, than you have both sides happy. The biggest problems with us humans is that we go to far with everything, including religion and atheism.
I will finish with ayat form the Quran and Hopi chief Dan Evehemma quote
Quran 5725
We have already sent Our messengers with clear evidences and sent down with them the Scripture and the balance that the people may maintain in justice. And We sent down iron, wherein is great military might and benefits for the people, and so that Allah may make evident those who support Him and His messengers unseen. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might.Dan Evehema, Hopi chief
We are now faced with great problems, not only here but throughout the land. Ancient cultures are being annihilated. Our people's lands are being taken from them, leaving them no place to call their own. Why is this happening? It is happening because many have given up or manipulated their original spiritual teachings. The Way of Life which the Great Spirit has given to all its people of the world; whatever your original instructions; is not being honoured. It is because of this great sickness - called greed, which infects every land and country that simple people are losing what they have kept for thousands of years. -
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A society should have a law system that is based on the decree of "God", but if it has laws that are unfounded and invented then it is a conjectural law system which is a big fail. Most developed secular countries even if saying they are faithless actually have a jurisdiction which is aligned with the law of "God", and usually more so than the so-called "Islamic countries" who have a system called "sharia".
That is a foundation which includes everyone, but apart from those fleshly and superfiscal laws there are spiritual ways and one should abstain from the flesh, which comment would make Dr. Fazlur Rahman happy.
Only people who cannot think beyond the world are obsessed with "Quranic" laws and how to uphold them while the person who has attained the perception of 'mumin' thinks on how to get rid of the world in themselves, so to say; to "delete" their ego and get one with the Creator instead to enter that narrow gate of the realm (which exists even now and you can join it by being assimilated with Allah and exist in Allah, but you must be light enough to be able to enter the gate), and then you cannot exist as person/ego and must get rid of personal desires and merely live in Allah and you will have the benefits of Allah of not needing or wanting anything but have access to it anyway.
Beneath all lies about the prophets, this is what they taught, and in their distorted condition I say the Biblical Gospel best teaches it, although Quran is just as good when "refining" that nonsense derived from it such as fleshly rituals that only reinforce the fleshly perception.
Be faithful to the Rabb
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There must be a distinction between religion and enforcement of jurisdiction in a country to avoid the hypocritical sectarians and blasphemers in each sect from having control over the community. Thus it is best if you separate state and religion, and most secular countries have a law system that follows "God's" few real laws anyway.
Solomon had both faithless and faithful people in his kingdom, and he oppressed no one, and he ruled by the Spirit of Allah rather than by Shaitaan and those hypocritical ways of displaying the ego. The success of Dawood and Suleiman was because they kept a harmonious and open minded empire, and their kingdom was huge, but they did conquer but little by force.
The Queen of Sheba is an example in the narration as she joined Suleiman's empire only through shrewdness from a spiritual person of the court while a faithless (Jinn) bragged about their military might. Surely Suleiman was wise to listen to the spiritual person rather than the fleshly man who could not think beyond the world. They thus sent a diplomatic decree to the queen about faithfulness to the Rabb instead which made the queen reflect while her advisors said they had military might and she instead formed a kingdom under the supervision of Suleiman. Suleiman did not seek territorial dominance but that Allah's concept was kept applied. Suleiman had deleted his ego, had no desire and greed and did not accept the bribe that the queen first tried with which would likely made him richer but would have been a huge minus to his soul. Such is the perfect state.
Someone should send a decree to the contemporary "Islamic countries" of the middle-east...
Be faithful to the Rabb
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There must be a distinction between religion and enforcement of jurisdiction in a country to avoid the hypocritical sectarians and blasphemers in each sect from having control over the community.
Are you serious? Hypocritical and sectarian? If you are talking about Muslim leaders you must know that we should be proud of them because they give a very tough competition to the world's most loved cartoon shows, South Park and the Simpsons muscle
http//i0.wp.com/listverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/0-2.jpg
http//i.ytimg.com/vi/UT7ZQug9vbU/0.jpg
https//scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10636044_466588516803373_2236558324550384214_n.jpg?oh=93fc2e934af350380b92be7b893e78de&oe=54ED2C1D
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Well, I wonder who is worst of them? Lady Gaga or the clerics/scholars? hypno
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As Quran says, we should keep everything in balance, not to go too far in religion like saudis do or to far in secularism as West does.
State laws that works without moral values of religion are doomed to fail.Balance yes, but balance between what? Balance yes, but not if it is a compromise between two extremes. The real balance is actually an all together different path from the extremes, and not an average of the two.
This comparison of Saudi vs West is however not a comparison between God and not-God. The religion of Saudi has no more to do with God than the secularism of West, perhaps even less. Saudi style is not "too much God". West may seem "too less God", but mere lip service with the name of God is useless. It is our practical behavior that matters. In such a case... a moral secular society is better than an oppressive religious society, because the moral secular one is closer to following God's commands than an oppressive religious one may be.
When the God's name is institutionalized, it is only real for the people who actually live and believe in the name of God. The rest would be hypocrites or similar. A label of God on a society doesn't make it Godly. However, a society that practices what God teaches, even without connecting it to God, is more Godly than one which only claims to "be with God" but fails in practice.
Peace y'all
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I am not defending the flat earth statement but it is not confirmed .
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Aziz_ibn_BazHowever I did read articles from them for making the moon landing as false. In actual fact, there are some conspiracy theories from the west as well about did us land on moon at that point in time?
Cheers
