The prophets, bearers of good news and warners..
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Peace Joe,
I think Marie means all ayat with the word nabi and/or nabiyeen or any and all ayaat containing derivatives of the root naba'a.
So no rasool verses about their duties and to be an example? I will study this further. Thank you.
Nadia
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Salaam Marie,
Here are some of the ayaat I've found with the derivatives of Nun Ba' Alif. If you or anyone else could find the rest that'd be cool. There are about 200 occurances of all the forms throughout the quran.
alnnabiyyeen - The prophets/informers
alnnabiyy - The prophet/informer
alnnabiyyoon - The prophets/informers
nabiyyin - A prophet/informer
nabiyy - Informer/Prophet
waalnnubuwwat - And the prophethood, lofty position, status, the office of function of an informer/prophet
al-anbiyaa - The informers
yunabbi - Informs/declares
nabbi - Inform, declare
nabbaa - Declared, informed
naba - Information, news
For those of you interested in the root meaning here is what I've come up with.
Naba'a - To be high, lofty. To aquaint, inform, utter in a low voice, cry, bark. To come/go forth, to assault. Information; a piece of information; intellegence; an announcement; news; tidings; a piece of news; an account; a narrative, or narration; a story; or what is related from another or others. An announcement of great utility, from which results either knowledge or a predominance of opinion, and true. An eminence or pretuberance.
Joe
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Salaam Joe, all
Good work Joe, thank you very much
I will study them progressively GW
Salaam Nadia,
I think Marie means all ayat with the word nabi and/or nabiyeen or any and all ayaat containing derivatives of the root naba'a.
Joe
Only nabiy (singular form), nabiyeen (plural form) or the messenger+prophet.
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peace be upon you all,
From Lane's Lexicon
= Nun-Ba-Alif (root of nabi) = utter a low voice/sound, become exalted/elevated, assault/come upon, went forth, brought/produce, to acquaint/inform, gift of prophecy, prophet.
Information/intelligence/news/announcement/narration/narrative/story (something that is related from one to another).
Eminence/protuberence in the ground/earth.
An evident/clear way.
Bull, a torrent that comes forth from another land, a man coming forth unexpectedly from an unknown quarter.From Concordance of The Quran
naba n.m. (pl. of anba) - news/tiding/story/tale
344, 527, 65, 634, 667, 7101, 7175, 970, 1071, 1149, 11100, 11120, 12102, 149, 1813, 2099, 266, 2669, 2722, 283, 2866, 3320, 3821, 3867, 3888, 496, 544, 645, 782nabiy n.m. (pl. nabiyun and anbiya) - prophet, the prophet (al-nabiy)
261, 291, 2136, 2177, 2213, 2246, 2247, 2248, 321, 339, 368, 380, 381, 384, 3112, 3146, 3161, 3181, 469, 4155, 4163, 520, 544, 581, 6112, 794, 7157, 7158, 864, 865, 867, 870, 961, 973, 9113, 9117, 1755, 1930, 1941, 1949, 1951, 1953, 1954, 1956, 1958, 2252, 2531, 331, 336, 337, 3313, 3328, 3330, 3332, 3338, 3340, 3345, 3350, 3353, 3356, 3359, 37112, 3969, 436, 437, 492, 6012, 651, 661, 663, 668, 669nubuwah n.f. - prophecy/prophethood
379, 689, 2927, 4516, 5726nabba'a vb. (II) - to tell
perf. act. 994, 1237, 663
impf. act. 315, 349, 514, 548, 560, 5105, 660, 6108, 6159, 6164, 964, 994, 9105, 1018, 1023, 1215, 1245, 1333, 1878, 18103, 2272, 2464, 26221, 298, 3115, 3123, 347, 3514, 397, 4150, 586, 587, 628
impv. 6143, 1236, 1549, 1551, 5428
impf. pass. 5336, 647, 7513anba'a vb. (IV) - to tell
perf. act. 233, 663
impv. 231, 233istanba'a vb. (X) - to ask or be told
impf. act. 1053Wakas
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Peace be upon you all,
Yes, the nabi are those who INTUIT (talk to the God).
With everything, there was always a first. A first one to "discover" something based on thier INTUITION about the Created Universe(Al kitaab). So the "talkers with the God" are the ones to understand LIFE (Al kitaab) through intuition of Life.
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Peace all,
Thank you very much wakas for your compilation
Does 2129, 2151 and 2143 imply that a messenger is not nabiy and bring a divine message? I?m not sure.
To obey the God and His messeger = to obey His message
The God speaks about His ?anbiya? as messengers because their principal mission is to deliver the divine message
- And when Jesus, son of Mary, said ?O children of Israel, I am God's messenger to you, authenticating what is present with me of the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be acclaimed.? But when he showed them the clear proofs, they said ?This is clearly magic.?
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Mohammed (3340) like the Messiah son of Mary (367), is no more than a messenger; like whom messengers have passed away.
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We are also told in the same way ?Then, in succession, We followed them up with (other of) Our Messengers. We caused them to be followed by Jesus son of Mary?.
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Other anbiya speak about themselves as messengers.
We are told to become men of God by spreading the knowledge of the Scripture and the teachings you learn there from. This is the mission of all of us.
- It is not for a human that God would give him the Scripture and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people ?Be servants to me rather than God!?, rather ?Be devotees for what you have been taught of the Scripture, and for what you studied.?
It would be interesting to find the quranic verses which states clearly that there will be other messengers and their mission is to explain us the previous scriptures such this reading (the quran).
How should we understand 7519?
Thanks
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Salaam Marie,
Being like other envoys should be taken into account into this particular situation since all envoys are never declared the last or regarded as such. Also it is clear that there may be multiple rusul at a single period in a given nation . This station is not so much peculiar, but seems to me to be rather normal.
Try reading ayat 7519 in relation to the duty of the rusul and see if that changes your mind. Note, their primary action is to deliver the message, but their duty to the people to whom this message is sent does not end there.
Joe
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the Created Universe(Al kitaab). So the "talkers with the God" are the ones to understand LIFE (Al kitaab) through intuition of Life.
Peace Kyle,
I came across the root of Ka-Ta-Ba in many places, shame I am a little disorganised. However, this root had a lot to do with "decree". With what you are saying it makes a whole lot more sense. I call this "the order of things" which covers the laws of the universe as well as all the creation. I think with this definition is important as many have assumed this to be the reading, the tawrat and the injeel. Sorry I digress.
Nice insight. wink
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Try reading ayat 7519 in relation to the duty of the rusul and see if that changes your mind. Note, their primary action is to deliver the message, but their duty to the people to whom this message is sent does not end there.
Joe
Peace,
I have reviewed this and the "We" which to me implies that Allah and His messengers both human and malaika explains it. Otherwise, all people would have to be receptive to revelation which is not the case. I realise the "We" assumptions made upto now maybe false.
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Salam Joe,
Salaam Marie,
Being like other envoys should be taken into account into this particular situation since all envoys are never declared the last or regarded as such.
We should to forget our divergence about khatam because the goal of the thread is to define what is nabiy in the light of the reading.
Also it is clear that there may be multiple rusul at a single period in a given nation . This station is not so much peculiar, but seems to me to be rather normal.
Moses and Haroon are also two messengers prophets for pharaon.
Try reading ayat 7519 in relation to the duty of the rusul and see if that changes your mind. Note, their primary action is to deliver the message, but their duty to the people to whom this message is sent does not end there.
I agree; their mission is to deliver, to judge, to learn wisdom....through the divine message. If we consider that this reading is not sufficient, then we have to follow other sources besides the reading and to open the door for several innovations.
I have reviewed this and the "We" which to me implies that Allah and His messengers both human and malaika explains it.
I don't think that "We" implies the God and human, let us read this verse
506 Do they not look at the sky above them how WE have built it and beautified it, and there are no flaws therein!
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Peace all,
One clue to understand this issue is to take "the scripture or the book" (al-kitab) as "any logical and consistent suite of words or elements relating to a subject".
Thus, you have "a book of gravity", "a book of medecine", "a book of maths", "a book of electricity", "a book of guidance".... It's not necesseraly in the form of a physical paper book, but it's the group of ideas related to a subject.
Now "naby" is one who gets an understanding on a subject related to our wordly life, you can take him as an "inventor" or a "discoverer".
For example, Einstein discovered the great amount of energy contained in the atom and a way to extract it. When he became aware of the importance of such a discovery, and the power coming with it, he made his informations public and shared it (rassol) with everyone so as not that the info stays only in the hands of a minority.
"Rassol" is one who is truthful in transmiting the commands of the god, not trying to take advantage for what he has learned for himslef alone, but sharing it we others.
I think "an-naby" is an inventor or a discoverer who submits to the god despite his clear knowledge, knowing that the god is high above it. Other scientists who are not submitting would be considered as "sahir" (magician), trying to take personnal advantage of their limited knowledge to control others.
In human history, there was always some people bringing new paradigms that cause great changes in human's lives and their vision of the world.
Remember that science can be viewed by "illiterates" as magic.
Now, "tawrat" I think is reffering to the law of "causality", "injeel" on the other hand is the law of "procreation". Those are the two aspects for understanding the non-living and the living in this world.
Sorry for going off topic, but it's all related.
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Salaams marie,
you say "Moses and Haroon are also two messengers prophets for pharaon."
Just for my information;
Where does it say Haroon is a Rasool.?
Sorry but i can't locate it.
Thanks.Salaams.
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Salam Mohamed, all,
Thanks for your interesting view.
Personally, I distinguish between the science ("a book of gravity", "a book of medecine", "a book of maths", "a book of electricity") which is the fruit of the basic and experimental research and what is revealed by the god upon His messengers (book of guidance).
The principal mission of alanbiya is to bear good news and to warn. Einstein is a man of science (318 ).
Alnnubuwwata /prophethood (the news of the unseen, the science from the God...) and human science are not at the same level.
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Salaamun alaikum Someone,
Now, "tawrat" I think is reffering to the law of "causality", "injeel" on the other hand is the law of "procreation". Those are the two aspects for understanding the non-living and the living in this world.
Definitely more Quranic than the usual 'torah' and 'gospel'
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Peace be u pon you Ash Shura,
I came across the root of Ka-Ta-Ba in many places, shame I am a little disorganised. However, this root had a lot to do with "decree". With what you are saying it makes a whole lot more sense. I call this "the order of things" which covers the laws of the universe as well as all the creation. I think with this definition is important as many have assumed this to be the reading, the tawrat and the injeel. Sorry I digress.
Nice insight.
Yes, I am glad that you have come to the same position. I thank the God within us all for your kind words.
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Peace be upon you Someone,
Fantastic explanation, can you elaborate on your understanding of "torah" and "injeel". I have taken a guess to start of my position as "torah" being Law and "injeel" being the proper understanding. Please elaborate on your position so I can start to formulate a better understanding.
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Peace idolfree1, all
My understanding concerning "tawrat" and "injeel" relies on their respective roots.
"tawrat" comes from the root "ta'ra" , which denotes a recurring process, something that is repeated sevral times with the same result.
"injeel" comes from the root "najala" which denotes "causing a new creation" or something to that effect (descendence??).
I am not able for now to find the exact english words for the verbs "najala" and "ta'ra". I'll post them if I find any, or you can propose some since english is your native language.
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Peace be upon you Someone,
"tawrat" comes from the root "ta'ra" , which denotes a recurring process, something that is repeated sevral times with the same result.
"injeel" comes from the root "najala" which denotes "causing a new creation" or something to that effect (descendence??).
Fantastic, thats what I needed!!
I will give you my updated thoughts shortly! D
