The prophets, bearers of good news and warners..
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the Created Universe(Al kitaab). So the "talkers with the God" are the ones to understand LIFE (Al kitaab) through intuition of Life.
Peace Kyle,
I came across the root of Ka-Ta-Ba in many places, shame I am a little disorganised. However, this root had a lot to do with "decree". With what you are saying it makes a whole lot more sense. I call this "the order of things" which covers the laws of the universe as well as all the creation. I think with this definition is important as many have assumed this to be the reading, the tawrat and the injeel. Sorry I digress.
Nice insight. wink
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Try reading ayat 7519 in relation to the duty of the rusul and see if that changes your mind. Note, their primary action is to deliver the message, but their duty to the people to whom this message is sent does not end there.
Joe
Peace,
I have reviewed this and the "We" which to me implies that Allah and His messengers both human and malaika explains it. Otherwise, all people would have to be receptive to revelation which is not the case. I realise the "We" assumptions made upto now maybe false.
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Salam Joe,
Salaam Marie,
Being like other envoys should be taken into account into this particular situation since all envoys are never declared the last or regarded as such.
We should to forget our divergence about khatam because the goal of the thread is to define what is nabiy in the light of the reading.
Also it is clear that there may be multiple rusul at a single period in a given nation . This station is not so much peculiar, but seems to me to be rather normal.
Moses and Haroon are also two messengers prophets for pharaon.
Try reading ayat 7519 in relation to the duty of the rusul and see if that changes your mind. Note, their primary action is to deliver the message, but their duty to the people to whom this message is sent does not end there.
I agree; their mission is to deliver, to judge, to learn wisdom....through the divine message. If we consider that this reading is not sufficient, then we have to follow other sources besides the reading and to open the door for several innovations.
I have reviewed this and the "We" which to me implies that Allah and His messengers both human and malaika explains it.
I don't think that "We" implies the God and human, let us read this verse
506 Do they not look at the sky above them how WE have built it and beautified it, and there are no flaws therein!
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Peace all,
One clue to understand this issue is to take "the scripture or the book" (al-kitab) as "any logical and consistent suite of words or elements relating to a subject".
Thus, you have "a book of gravity", "a book of medecine", "a book of maths", "a book of electricity", "a book of guidance".... It's not necesseraly in the form of a physical paper book, but it's the group of ideas related to a subject.
Now "naby" is one who gets an understanding on a subject related to our wordly life, you can take him as an "inventor" or a "discoverer".
For example, Einstein discovered the great amount of energy contained in the atom and a way to extract it. When he became aware of the importance of such a discovery, and the power coming with it, he made his informations public and shared it (rassol) with everyone so as not that the info stays only in the hands of a minority.
"Rassol" is one who is truthful in transmiting the commands of the god, not trying to take advantage for what he has learned for himslef alone, but sharing it we others.
I think "an-naby" is an inventor or a discoverer who submits to the god despite his clear knowledge, knowing that the god is high above it. Other scientists who are not submitting would be considered as "sahir" (magician), trying to take personnal advantage of their limited knowledge to control others.
In human history, there was always some people bringing new paradigms that cause great changes in human's lives and their vision of the world.
Remember that science can be viewed by "illiterates" as magic.
Now, "tawrat" I think is reffering to the law of "causality", "injeel" on the other hand is the law of "procreation". Those are the two aspects for understanding the non-living and the living in this world.
Sorry for going off topic, but it's all related.
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Salaams marie,
you say "Moses and Haroon are also two messengers prophets for pharaon."
Just for my information;
Where does it say Haroon is a Rasool.?
Sorry but i can't locate it.
Thanks.Salaams.
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Salam Mohamed, all,
Thanks for your interesting view.
Personally, I distinguish between the science ("a book of gravity", "a book of medecine", "a book of maths", "a book of electricity") which is the fruit of the basic and experimental research and what is revealed by the god upon His messengers (book of guidance).
The principal mission of alanbiya is to bear good news and to warn. Einstein is a man of science (318 ).
Alnnubuwwata /prophethood (the news of the unseen, the science from the God...) and human science are not at the same level.
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Salaamun alaikum Someone,
Now, "tawrat" I think is reffering to the law of "causality", "injeel" on the other hand is the law of "procreation". Those are the two aspects for understanding the non-living and the living in this world.
Definitely more Quranic than the usual 'torah' and 'gospel'
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Peace be u pon you Ash Shura,
I came across the root of Ka-Ta-Ba in many places, shame I am a little disorganised. However, this root had a lot to do with "decree". With what you are saying it makes a whole lot more sense. I call this "the order of things" which covers the laws of the universe as well as all the creation. I think with this definition is important as many have assumed this to be the reading, the tawrat and the injeel. Sorry I digress.
Nice insight.
Yes, I am glad that you have come to the same position. I thank the God within us all for your kind words.
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Peace be upon you Someone,
Fantastic explanation, can you elaborate on your understanding of "torah" and "injeel". I have taken a guess to start of my position as "torah" being Law and "injeel" being the proper understanding. Please elaborate on your position so I can start to formulate a better understanding.
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Peace idolfree1, all
My understanding concerning "tawrat" and "injeel" relies on their respective roots.
"tawrat" comes from the root "ta'ra" , which denotes a recurring process, something that is repeated sevral times with the same result.
"injeel" comes from the root "najala" which denotes "causing a new creation" or something to that effect (descendence??).
I am not able for now to find the exact english words for the verbs "najala" and "ta'ra". I'll post them if I find any, or you can propose some since english is your native language.
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Peace be upon you Someone,
"tawrat" comes from the root "ta'ra" , which denotes a recurring process, something that is repeated sevral times with the same result.
"injeel" comes from the root "najala" which denotes "causing a new creation" or something to that effect (descendence??).
Fantastic, thats what I needed!!
I will give you my updated thoughts shortly! D
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Personally, I distinguish between the science ("a book of gravity", "a book of medecine", "a book of maths", "a book of electricity") which is the fruit of the basic and experimental research and what is revealed by the god upon His messengers (book of guidance).
The principal mission of alanbiya is to bear good news and to warn. Einstein is a man of science (318 ).
Alnnubuwwata /prophethood (the news of the unseen, the science from the God...) and human science are not at the same level.
Peace marie, all
A man of science is "3alim", someone who has acquired knowledge with time and within.
"naby" is a degree above. "naby" brings "new news", I mean new discoveries inspired by the god, inspired by all that is around.
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A man of science is "3alim", someone who has acquired knowledge with time and within.
"naby" is a degree above. "naby" brings "new news", I mean new discoveries inspired by the god, inspired by all that is around.Peace mohamed, all
Anbiya receive the science from the God through the inspiration without making experiments at the laboratory, archaeological explorations...
For ex, the famous formula of Einstein (E=mc2) is the fruit of several years of research. Of course, the God guides every one who seeks to improve his knowledge about the creation.
Does the prophet Muhamad do the same thing to know all what is inspired to him through the reading?
The response is No.
For me, Amen or women of knowledge are not especially anbiya or the warners but a person of knowledge/science/searchers of the universe secrets.
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A man of science is "3alim", someone who has acquired knowledge with time and within.
"naby" is a degree above. "naby" brings "new news", I mean new discoveries inspired by the god, inspired by all that is around.
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Peace marie, all
My post above should read as follow
A man of science is "3alim", someone who has acquired knowledge with time from other men of science. (remember Moussa with the man with knowledge)"naby" is a degree above. "naby" brings "new news", I mean new discoveries inspired by the god, inspired by all that is around and within.
And I don't think that a "naby" is deprived of knowledge. According to the scripture, they were thaught knowledge and wisdom, and were able to bring new knowledge with the will of the god. Einstein is not any different from that, and his discoveries are proved by the book (= the creation).
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Salam mohamed, all
"naby" is a degree above. "naby" brings "new news", I mean new discoveries inspired by the god, inspired by all that is around and within.
Agree.
Several scientific discoveries dated from the 20th century are announced since several centuries in the quran )
Those who are well founded in knowledge say ?We believe in it, all is from our Lord.?
Anbiya and the person of knwoledge are supplementary but not interchangeable.
- Say ?If all the humans and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Quran like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another.?
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Peace be upon you Someone,
Very well stated, just like the example of Ibrhim who looked at the creations (star , moon and sun) and realized that the GOVERNING INTELLIGENCE(God) is greater than all of that. Some are able to "talk" to this GOVERNING INTELLIGENCE and "discover" what others have not.
So Ibrahim tells his father(representative of the old active ways)
(1943) "O my father! to me has come knowledge which has not reached you so follow me I will guide you to a path that is even and straight.
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Peace Idolfree
I have taken a guess to start of my position as "torah" being Law and "injeel" being the proper understanding. Please elaborate on your position so I can start to formulate a better understanding.
This is how I presently understand the 'torah' and 'injeel' based on 4829. I believe it fits inline with Someone's posted roots.
I understand the 'Torah' as being the follow through of the law (preparation). I liken it to tilled soil, that is ready to foster the seed.
I see the 'Injeel' as the outcome of following the law, it is the growth one experiences from the expression of the law.
I view the 'Torah' as feminine and 'Injeel' as masculine. I believe they can be contrasted with Mary and Isa.
pz
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Peace be upon you Khalil,
This is how I presently understand the 'torah' and 'injeel' based on 4829. I believe it fits inline with Someone's posted roots.
I understand the 'Torah' as being the follow through of the law (preparation). I liken it to tilled soil, that is ready to foster the seed.
I see the 'Injeel' as the outcome of following the law, it is the growth one experiences from the expression of the law.
I view the 'Torah' as feminine and 'Injeel' as masculine. I believe they can be contrasted with Mary and Isa.
Yes, I agree with that line of thought, though I do not have a firm understanding yet.