Human vs Jinn Powers
-
The 'Jinn' is a human and lacking that extra touch of Allah in him meaning he can only think as far as his eyes go, so to say.
What is the evidence of this your assertion?
From my ability to decipher the Arabic words the word 'Jinn' has nothing to do with something invisible per meaning.
Jinn, which is derived from the root J-N-N, has the connotation "to shield, to cover, to engulf, shield, enclosure, place of hiding; the world of jinn, the hidden people; night; grave; heart, inside, foetus; garden, verdant, madness; snake" (Arabic-English Dictionary of Qur'anic Usage, P. 175)
The same dictionary defines Jinn as "hidden beings generally including the jinn and angels" (p. 176)
Angels are referred to as Jinnatun in Sura 7158
The Qur'an refers to fetuses as aljinnatun/janin in Sura 5332
So this is quite established from the Arabic language that Jinn carries a connotation of something that is hidden from plain view.
And like I wrote above, linguistically 'Jinn' has no relation to something hidden.
The Arabic dictionary proves you wrong. Jaan also means snake, as proven from Sura 2710. The staff of Moses turned into a Snake, and the word used in the Qur'an is Jaan.
And you also contradict your statement about "concealed from plain sight" that you mentioned in your post. This are your mainstream 'Jews' as you said yourself here. Is "elite" an excuse for making an exception for these 'Jinns' from your invisible 'Jinns"? Your statement does not make sense. Even if they live in seclusion they are still visible people? And it is not like you have the Arabic with you either in terms of the meaning.
You've misunderstood me. By hidden or invisible I do not mean it in a literal sense. I gave you the example of the snake. Snakes are clearly physical, visible creatures that many of us have seen with our own eyes.
But snakes are a type of Jinn because they tend to be concealed by their nature. They hide in the grass and holes in the ground. It's difficult to perceive a snake. Likewise, fetuses are also referred to as Jinn, because they are concealed in the womb. Angels have also been referred to as a kind of Jinn because they are invisible.So first off, we have to establish and understand that there are several types of Jinn based on the Arabic language and even different examples of the Quran I already gave.
However, the common type of Jinn that most people think about when the word Jinn is mentioned are a type of people who remain aloof from the ordinary people. They are the elite. They are not literally invisible as if they were ghosts or spirits. I am not claiming that at all. I am saying they are referred to as Jinn because they remain aloof and hidden in their own world, but at times they emerge, as mentioned in Sura 4629 and Sura 721
Finally, there are the Jinn which are popularly known as demons, devils, Iblis, evil spirits etc. That is a difficult subject and presently I do not have enough knowledge to discuss about their reality, nor do I think it is necessary to do so.
As for men from among the Jinn, the Rijaal min al Jinn (726) it is about them that I have been discussing all along so don't be confused.
-
Have faith Israfeel,
What is the evidence of this your assertion?
The "evidence" is in the narrated stories in the Qur'an. You have the example of the Jinn in Suleiman's kingdom who came up with a "no-brainer". And the second "evidence" I have is from the innate meaning of the letters themselves that the word Jinn is composed from. I am not sure what else you want to hear? That your whole perception comes down like house of cards?
Jinn, which is derived from the root J-N-N, has the connotation "to shield, to cover, to engulf, shield, enclosure, place of hiding; the world of jinn
That may be true, but you apply the connotations erroneously. It is easy to see that these people are sealed from spiritual understanding just like Shaitaan. Very shallow ones who cannot understand anything just like the mainstream clerics and scholars.
Angels are referred to as Jinnatun in Sura 7158
You must have referred to the wrong verse since there is no such mention in the one you gave me.
The Qur'an refers to fetuses as aljinnatun/janin in Sura 5332
Even if it happens that the interpretation of the passage is entirely true, it does not prove anything.
The Arabic dictionary proves you wrong. Jaan also means snake, as proven from Sura 2710. The staff of Moses turned into a Snake, and the word used in the Qur'an is Jaan.
In fact it does not. It only makes it lame with your interpretation.
You've misunderstood me. By hidden or invisible I do not mean it in a literal sense.
Nor did I mean in a literal sense, because it is that they have sealed off spiritual awareness.
However, the common type of Jinn that most people think about when the word Jinn is mentioned are a type of people who remain aloof from the ordinary people. They are the elite. They are not literally invisible as if they were ghosts or spirits. I am not claiming that at all. I am saying they are referred to as Jinn because they remain aloof and hidden in their own world, but at times they emerge, as mentioned in Sura 4629 and Sura 721
Finally, there are the Jinn which are popularly known as demons, devils, Iblis, evil spirits etc. That is a difficult subject and presently I do not have enough knowledge to discuss about their reality, nor do I think it is necessary to do so.
As for men from among the Jinn, the Rijaal min al Jinn (726) it is about them that I have been discussing all along so don't be confused.
You are just relaying conjecture to me. Study it yourself instead of being fooled by the scholars and clerics. It has nothing to do with demons or supernatural entities, but it is talked about people who have no spiritual link to the Creator.
Have faith
-
My question is that in the verse 39, it is Jinn is mentioned but in the verse 40, it is not explicitly mentioned was it a jinn or a man? If it was a man who is mentioned as "one who had the knowledge from the Book", then does it mean that we humans have the hidden mysterious power to perform what is termed as miracles? And what is the Book that the person is talking about to Prophet Sulaiman? Was that a book like Quran available at the time or was it a book which contains all these miracles procedure etc?
Or the book mentioned here is a metaphor to the wisdom that God has given him?Salamun Alaikum.
Per my humble understanding - The secretive one (jinn) wanted to steal the "throne" of Queen Sheba - but the one who had the knowledge from the book - was able to describe the "throne" of Queen Sheba to King Solomon in the blink of an eye. This signifies that the power of knowledge is superior to the military power. The unnamed "book" clearly included knowledge about Queen Sheba's kingdom/culture/practices. Indirectly this verse encourages the study of a broad spectrum of topics including books of other people and culture.
In today's context if we need to debate with an Atheist or a Christian or a Hindu or a Sunni about his faith, we need to have knowledge from their book so that we can recreate their "throne" in front of them and show them where we differ and where we agree. I believe thus Qur'an encourages at least some of us to read their books (including their holy books.)
For me whether the jinn was human or supernatural, or what book was that guy reading - are rather unnecessary questions, with little bearing on the message of the verse.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Not a book at all! OMG
-
Jinn, which is derived from the root J-N-N, has the connotation "to shield, to cover, to engulf, shield, enclosure, place of hiding; the world of jinn, the hidden people; night; grave; heart, inside, foetus; garden, verdant, madness; snake" (Arabic-English Dictionary of Qur'anic Usage, P. 175)
The same dictionary defines Jinn as "hidden beings generally including the jinn and angels" (p. 176)
Agreed
Peace,
We must also include "the soul" as hidden (the fetus is indeed hidden in the womb).
The jinn are beings that live inside the human (hidden), they are crazy folk, insane, psychopaths,
sociopaths, warriors and other such aberrant personalities, some are very intelligent and driven to
serve their needs/ego. Many successful and powerful business people are jinns also some
politicians, and not let us forget religious leaders/scholars. These folk are not like us "souls." They were
asked to serve us souls but they refuse, they serve Satan knowingly or unknowingly. They can also
be Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, or a member of any other religion.Just my two cents
peace
-
Hawk99 is right except that the Jinn is not a separate being but the spirit a person attains.
Have faith
-
Hawk99 is right except that the Jinn is not a separate being but the spirit a person attains.
Have faith
Peace Man of Faith,
You misunderstand me, the jinn is not separate from us, but to a degree is in all of us, those satanic
urges are internal, the purpose of submission, fasting, salat, zakat, remembrance, wisdom, understanding
and knowledge, are God given tools of purification that bring us closer to God and further from Satan.
Please re-read post 10 second sentence.And the devil will say, after the judgment had been issued, "GOD has promised you the truthful
promise, and I promised you, but I broke my promise. I had no power over you; I simply invited you,
and you accepted my invitation. Therefore, do not blame me, and blame only yourselves. My complaining
cannot help you, nor can your complaining help me. I have disbelieved in your idolizing me. The transgressors
have incurred a painful retribution."God bless you
peace
-
My question is that in the verse 39, it is Jinn is mentioned but in the verse 40, it is not explicitly mentioned was it a jinn or a man? If it was a man who is mentioned as "one who had the knowledge from the Book", then does it mean that we humans have the hidden mysterious power to perform what is termed as miracles? And what is the Book that the person is talking about to Prophet Sulaiman? Was that a book like Quran available at the time or was it a book which contains all these miracles procedure etc?
Or the book mentioned here is a metaphor to the wisdom that God has given him?Peace Fusion,
Knowledge of the book
1 Corinthians 1551-53King James Version (KJV)
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Quran The person is quoting 1 Corinthians 1551-53 King James Version
2740 One who had the knowledge of the Book said I will bring it to you in the twinkling of an eye.
Then when he saw it settled beside him, he said This is of the grace of my Lord that He may try me
whether I am grateful or ungrateful; and whoever is grateful, he is grateful only for his own soul, and
whoever is ungrateful, then surely my Lord is Self-sufficient, Honored.then does it mean that we humans have the hidden mysterious power to perform what is termed as miracles?
As for hidden mysteries, that is a discussion of a more esoteric tilt, of which the Sufi, Shi'a, Sunni and other
sects, who have attempted, or as far as they may be concerned, answered such mysteries.God bless
peace
-
Folks,
Its really difficult to understand the Quran if the actual meaning of the verses always hide something else and the literal meaning is a metaphor.
Does Allah really expected common people to attian high intellectual thoughts in order to understand the message? I mean isn't the message of God or most of it from the book should be simple enough for an ordinary some what wise and mature person to understand?
I have been reading posts on this forum and it appears that every verse which is discussed, turns out to have a meaning that i never though about it before.
What I understood from the last few posts is that jinn is not a separate physical being from people but is some thing logical within us , more like the bad thoughts or some thing which can be developed/triggered and then acted upon by our actions, then how we explain the verses that mentions Jinn or then perhaps these verses are also metaphors and a common person should not be able to understand their true meaning ever?
11119 Except whom your Lord has mercy upon; and for that He has created them. And the word of your Lord came true ?I will fill Hell with the Jinn and the people together!?1527 And the Jinn, We created him before that from the fire of the fierce hot winds
1788 Say ?If all mankind and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Qur?an like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another.?2717 And the soldiers of Solomon were gathered, comprising of mankind and Jinn and birds, for they were to be spread out.
4629 And We directed to you a company of Jinn, in order to let them listen to the Qur?an. So when they arrived there, they said ?Pay attention.? Then, when it was finished, they returned to their people, to warn them
I wonder if we complicate things which could be simple message or instructions from God?
CheersPS I was not able to locate this site through a proxy as it was blocked and i tried hard to find another proxy,, not sure how long will i be able to view the free minds webite... its really depressing.
-
Folks,
Its really difficult to understand the Quran if the actual meaning of the verses always hide something else and the literal meaning is a metaphor.
Does Allah really expected common people to attian high intellectual thoughts in order to understand the message? I mean isn't the message of God or most of it from the book should be simple enough for an ordinary some what wise and mature person to understand?Peace Fusion,
) The deen is actually very simple, but if you are seeking to understand metaphors and allegories
which are more complicated, you will need to invest time and effort to arrive at conclusions that suit you.The Quran spans from simple instructions to the things that only those who are firmly rooted in knowledge understand
If you prefer guidance
2177
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in
Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out
of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the
ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have
made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic.
Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.For me I prefer the guidance and take the allegories with a grain of salt!
My advice, maintain patience, enjoy your journey
peace
-
Iblis is part of jinn kind. If jinn was a human that are hidden, so did ibliss who are exiled from janna also a human? I think jinn was somekind of a supranatural beeing. And he is co-exist with us.
Peace Farabi,
I accept your point of view on the subject, mine is not the only explanation, but let me ask you,
- Are the jinn Invisible?
God bless you
peace
-
My question is that in the verse 39, it is Jinn is mentioned but in the verse 40, it is not explicitly mentioned was it a jinn or a man? If it was a man who is mentioned as "one who had the knowledge from the Book", then does it mean that we humans have the hidden mysterious power to perform what is termed as miracles? And what is the Book that the person is talking about to Prophet Sulaiman? Was that a book like Quran available at the time or was it a book which contains all these miracles procedure etc?
Or the book mentioned here is a metaphor to the wisdom that God has given him?Kitab supposed to mean a "Record"... and not "Holy Book".
During Solomon times, the Tanakh, Gospel and Quran is nowhere available, all of them are non existent...
Even the paper and pen technology might not be invented yet..Knowledge from "The Record" there could be many possibilities.
Whether it's a "Jin", "Human" or even "Alien" or "Alien Jin" who possess such "Knowledge from the Record", nobody knows for sure..Moving object in a blink of an eye might involves some kind of "Matter Teleportation".
Theoretically possible, but the technology not yet widely available as per today on earth, but perhaps could already be common for those who came from another stars / galaxy and managed to get their sorry arse here on earth.
As some kind of "Matter Teleportation" must be performed to traverse many light years of distances... -
Peace Jafar.
Moving object in a blink of an eye might involves some kind of "Matter Teleportation".
We are doing this now. Beaming "live" from anywhere on earth or in the sky!
Yes indeed ,you can have a live conversation with someone in Australia or anywhere without going there. In the blink of an eye?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Hawk99, I wish I knew your name and I thank you for reminding such a wonderful verse from Quran. Yes you are right , it is simple enough for some one
to follow Allah's religion and not get involved in complexities
I am trying to do that same.Would you be kind enough to please point me to the following references or links. I know there are so many threads on here but am expecting you
to simplify the contact prayer .- How many times do we pray (2 or 3) and in each prayer, what is the grace period like from and to..
- The three elements of prayer (standing, ruku and sojod) is mentioned all over quran for muslims and for people before.
It is also mentioned to prophet to pray extra as Qayam lail.
730 In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
731 O you who are covered with your garments.
732 Stand the night except for a little.
733 Half of it, or a little less than that.
734 Or a little more, and arrange the Qur?an in its arrangement.Same time it is also mentioned
918 Rather, the temples of God are maintained by he who believes in God and the Last Day, and he upholds the contact prayer, and he contributes towards purification, and is only concerned by God. It is these that will be of the guided ones.In my view it is best to pray the contact prayer at the mosque because in quran it is mentioned many times to perform prayer with those who do ruku and also
during the time of war, the concept of praying as a group is enforced, all of this makes me think that Islam wants people to socialize as oppose to keeping oneself in the corner. What is more important is to serve the people in acts of kindness.Keeping above into context, if one attends todays mosques three times and he performs all the 3 basic acts (position) of pray, would you think that is a good deed?
keeping the fact that the intention of the person is not to shirk but utter only words from quran during pray.Cheers
2177
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in
Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out
of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the
ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have
made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic.
Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing. -
Folks,
Its really difficult to understand the Quran if the actual meaning of the verses always hide something else and the literal meaning is a metaphor.
...
11119 Except whom your Lord has mercy upon; and for that He has created them. And the word of your Lord came true ?I will fill Hell with the Jinn and the people together!?1527 And the Jinn, We created him before that from the fire of the fierce hot winds
1788 Say ?If all mankind and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Qur?an like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another.?2717 And the soldiers of Solomon were gathered, comprising of mankind and Jinn and birds, for they were to be spread out.
...Cheers
This for me and together where Allah says he created Man from clay, clearly show that Jinns and Men are different entities. Again quoting Quran, they see us from whence we see them not.
-
Hawk99, I wish I knew your name and I thank you for reminding such a wonderful verse from Quran. Yes you are right , it is simple enough for some one
to follow Allah's religion and not get involved in complexities
I am trying to do that same.Would you be kind enough to please point me to the following references or links. I know there are so many threads on here but am expecting you
to simplify the contact prayer .- How many times do we pray (2 or 3) and in each prayer, what is the grace period like from and to..
- The three elements of prayer (standing, ruku and sojod) is mentioned all over quran for muslims and for people before.
It is also mentioned to prophet to pray extra as Qayam lail.
730 In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
731 O you who are covered with your garments.
732 Stand the night except for a little.
733 Half of it, or a little less than that.
734 Or a little more, and arrange the Qur?an in its arrangement.Same time it is also mentioned
918 Rather, the temples of God are maintained by he who believes in God and the Last Day, and he upholds the contact prayer, and he contributes towards purification, and is only concerned by God. It is these that will be of the guided ones.In my view it is best to pray the contact prayer at the mosque because in quran it is mentioned many times to perform prayer with those who do ruku and also
during the time of war, the concept of praying as a group is enforced, all of this makes me think that Islam wants people to socialize as oppose to keeping oneself in the corner. What is more important is to serve the people in acts of kindness.Keeping above into context, if one attends todays mosques three times and he performs all the 3 basic acts (position) of pray, would you think that is a good deed?
keeping the fact that the intention of the person is not to shirk but utter only words from quran during pray.Cheers
Peace Fusion,
Thank you for your kind words, We Muslim folk disagree on the number of contact prayers, are there two,
three or five. When viewed as opportunities to glorify and remember our lord, five chances are better than
two or three. Therefore I subscribe to the five chances to contact our lord. These five opportunities should
be done according to your convenience or with little effort or difficulty. If you are able to make only one sincere
salat a day that one is better than five to be seen. Reflecting on Allah, his creation, his wisdom and what he
is teaching us when we have quiet time be it day or night is beneficial to our spiritual growth.Here is a link of a prayer schedule http//www.islamicfinder.org/
Praying at the mosque with other Muslims I find exhilarating and enjoyable even though I have
moved on from Sunni Islam and the words of my Salat are different from the Sunni's. We have normal
discussions and many are on the path to non-sectarian Islam praise God.I view Salat as a good deed to one's own soul which in turn should create the impulse to do good deeds.
God bless you
peace
-
Ok thanks for the clarification hawk99. You have basically understood what a Jinn is. Congratulations. It is also similar to the 'Gentiles' word Jews use from Latin 'Gens' which is likely further from semitic languages Jinn.
I would say a Jinn is a faithless person, one without a spiritual link to the Creator.
Be faithful to the Rabb
