Quran and secularism - A future essay

Armanaziz

Obeying Allah is all about obeying our conscience. We must first recognize that our sense of right and wrong is not an illusion ? it is given to us by our Creator to navigate the journey of life; our ability to reason and judge ? is not a acquired skill that is meant to be sold at the labor market ? it is the most important skill that our Creator has given us to distinguish right and wrong.

When someone is asked to shut down his faculty of free thinking ? repress his conscience and ignore his personal sense of right and wrong to uphold the teaching of any man (even be it Jesus, Muhammad or Gandhi), or any book (even be it the Bible, The Qur?an or the Constitution of a country) ? one is being driven away from the path of God towards deviation. That is the teaching of Qur?an.

379 It is not to be for any (living) being that Allah would give him the book, the wisdom and the prophet-hood, (but) later he would say to mankind, ?Be slaves to me from beside Allah.? But rather (he would say), ?Be rabbis (i.e. devotees of the Master) because you would be teaching the book, and because you would be studying it.?

380 And he would not command you that you take the angels and the prophets as masters. Would he command you to repress (faith) after that you have been submissive?

(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)

When we are told to move away from man-made rules and come to the rules of Allah ? basically we have been told to uphold our sense of right and wrong and ability to reason and judge and discard all ?man-made? rules that do not stand the test of our conscience and intellect.

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The word ?secularism? can be used and interpreted in many different ways. Some may use the word to denote to a system which does not allow freedom of choice and right to follow-religion. Such secularism is itself a manmade ?doctrine? and is at odds with both human conscience and Qur?an. However, If we define secularism as rule of human conscience and intellect taking precedence over rule of any religion / book / sect ? then secularism is not at odds with God?s rule ? such a secularism is synonymous to God?s rule. for the rest of this post I?ll use the term ?secularism? to denote such a system which upholds human conscience and intellect over any doctrine / book / ruling.

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If we accept that following our conscience is following Allah's rule; where does it put Qur?an, then? Definitely Qur?an contains many rules (for example inheritance rules) which are not simple interpolation of human conscience and intellect. Aren?t we supposed to uphold such rules?

To answer that, we need to understand what Qur?an is and what Qur?an is not.

Per the very words of Qur?an, it is

A ?guide? for the conscious;
A warning for those who repress their faith
A tiding (good news) for those who uphold faith and act righteously.

However, it DOES not claim itself to be

A substitute for human conscience/intelligence;
An all-inclusive manual for everything that we do in life;
The only book that contains guidance.

To function as a society or community ? every society needs norms. Do you drive on the right side of the road, or the left? There is nothing fundamentally right or wrong about driving on the right or on the left ? but if we disregard these rules/norms the result would be chaos and accident. The same can be said about the choice of unit of measurement (metric system vs. decimal system), office timing or holidays, etc.

So, for these normative matters, the societies need to take a call and agree on it. The basis for such call can be historical precedence, any book or norms or a conventional practice. Accepting such norms does not violate the principle of secularism. Let?s call this the principle of norms.

Now, there are matters regarding human ethics that also need similar norms. Take for example the inheritance rule ? what do we do with the property of a deceased person? Or, for example how long a widow should wait before he/she should take another spouse, Or whether we should allow intoxicants to promote human freedom of choice, or regulate it to minimize its evil impact, etc. On matter?s like this we can debate and discuss till the end of time ? but we cannot agree on a set of principles unless we take a decision from an authority and move on.

For those who have faith in Qur?an ? the book, being a guide for the conscious, provides such sets of norms that can be practiced in a society or community and thus avoid much of the unnecessary debates / arguments. The collection of these norm?s comprise the ?Shir?a? or Qur?an. . However, the language of Qur?an often keeps some room of flexibility so that the community can exercise their ability to reason and judge and implement these norms in the manner most suitable for their time and context.

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When a group of people who have faith in the book named Qur?an form a society ? it would be natural for them to look up to Qur?an for those normative decisions ? and no doubt that is what Qur?an expects them to do. As we discussed under the title ?principle of norms?, accepting such norms does not go against the core principle of secularism as we defined it. However, the over-reaching principle should be the rule of justice (i.e. rule of God), not the rule of a book (even Qur'an).

However, the set of societal norms found in Qur?an should be prescribed as binding only upon the society which acknowledges to be faithful to Qur?an as a guide. Qur?an itself makes this point clear

548 And We sent down to you the book in truth - confirming what was up until it of the book and dominant over it. So, judge between them with what Allah has sent down and do not follow their fancies for what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have assigned a manifesto and an open path. And if Allah willed He would have assigned you (into) one community, but rather (He willed) to test you in what He has given you. So, race towards good deeds. To Allah is the return of you altogether. Then He will inform you of what you happened to be differing concerning it.

(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)

When we are prescribing the rules for a country where multiple communities (different religion) co-exist ? allowing each community to be governed by their own ?Shir?a (manifesto)? is not at odds with Qur?an ? rather it is the very teaching of the Qur?an. But we have to remember, the matter of choice must be limited to the ?normative? issues ? the core principle should be the rule of justice ? the rule of God.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

Jafar

I just realized an odd fact.

The most anti-religion book is the most popular religious book.

It's none other than THE GOSPEL.
Within one can read about the struggle of a man, his cousin, his family and his friends / student against the tyranny of religion within their own society.

@Taro you might expand your future essay more towards "Holy Book and Religion".

reel

I don't see anything wrong with true secularism. It mainly is about separation between church and state, but then it was expanded to include what fully is compatible with Quran
Took each point from http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism

Refuses to commit itself as a whole to any one view of the nature of the universe and the role of man in it.
This is in tune with
6116. And if you pay heed to the majority of those on the earth, they will lead you astray from God's way. They follow only conjecture (not knowledge), and they themselves do nothing but make guesses (they pronounce and act according to their fancies, selfish interests, and personal value judgments).

Blindly accepting to be part of community is dangerous. I think 99% of the members here got a taste of it and know how it goes.

Is not homogeneous, but is pluralistic.
I gave the verse that supports it, but once again I am pasting it here
4913 O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.

Is tolerant. It widens the sphere of private decision-making.
499 And act justly. Truly, God loves those who are just.
58 And let not the hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just that is nearer to piet

While every society must have some common aims, which implies there must be agreed on methods of problem-solving, and a common framework of law; in a secular society these are as limited as possible

608 God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers.

2190 Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors

1829 Say, ?The truth is from your Lord? Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it)

Some religious people from every religeon think that it is okay to force others to convert to their religons.

Problem solving is approached rationally, through examination of the facts. While the secular society does not set any overall aim, it helps its members realize their aims.

1736 And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart - about all those will be questioned.

4238 And those who have responded to their lord and established prayer and whose affair is consultation among themselves, and from what We have provided them, they spend

4912 O you who have believed, avoid much assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful.
Quran many times recommend people to reason, consult and accept only true "witnesses". In fact, we are told to drop anyone who gives false evidence. Allah also says that if we cant find a solution we should live it up to Allah.

Is a society without any official images. Nor is there a common ideal type of behavior with universal application.
The verses given above showed us that Allah says he gave tribes and races for a reason and he certainly doesnt believe that every person will behave in universal way.

But weakness of secularism is that it has to vow to wishes of a wide variety of groups. Everyone thinks their likes and dislikes must not be a problem for the government. And of course, there are those who are in illuminati. They take advantage of it. But again, those who make stupid sharia laws and attribute them to Allah are no different. They are all partners in crime. So we neither have true secular nor Islamic countries.

We should actually be thankful that church is separate from state (priests barred from making decisions). Christian priests are not different from mullahs. Their reign in Europe came to a full stop because of their violence and stupid rules. Here is an example

"Anyone who attempts to construe a personal view of God which conflicts with Church dogma must be burned without pity."

Pope Innocent III

The Inquisition was an ecclesiastical court and process of the Roman Catholic Church setup for the purpose towards the discovery and punishment of heresy which wielded immense power and brutality in medieval and early modern times. The Inquisitions function was principally assembled to repress all heretics of rights, depriving them of their estate and assets which became subject to the ownership of the Catholic treasury, with each relentlessly sought to destroy anyone who spoke, or even thought differently to the Catholic Church. This system for close to over six centuries became the legal framework throughout most of Europe that orchestrated one of the most confound religious orders in the course of mankind.
http//www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican29.htm

Yosemite

the obsession from being "secular" only comes from the fact that the westerners love this being "secular" as they defined it, and it looks good in their eyes to be "secular"

in the west being secular means irreligious, which leads to atheism
being irreligious is a good thing but by the west's definition, there would be no possibilities to implement a system with the quran as a guideline, it wouldn't be "secular"
while being secular leads to being irreligious, that doesn't mean i have to be "secular" to be irreligious

communists are very secular

Jafar

the obsession from being "secular" only comes from the fact that the westerners love this being "secular" as they defined it, and it looks good in their eyes to be "secular"

Religion originated from the west.
And the idea of "State Official Cult/Religion" originated also from the west.

Where "The West" here means
People around Mediterranean sea; Europe, North Africa, Middle East with addition of Persia.

As thus it's natural that anti-religion movement (secularism) originated from the west too..
They caused the problem in the first place and now they came up with a solution for it.

Secularism is a 'cure' for the disease of religion.
For those who never got infected with religion-ythis they don't need 'secularism'.

Now I replace "secular" in your statement with "religion/religious" and see how everything also fits perfectly..

The obsession from being "religious" only comes from the fact that the westerners love this being "religious" as they defined it, and it looks good in their eyes to be "religious".

Being religious is a good thing but by the west's definition, there would be no possibilities to implement a system with the quran as a guideline, it wouldn't be "religious"
Medieval Eastern Rome, Medieval Western Rome, Ottoman Caliphate, Holy Roman Empire, Today's Vatican, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (to name a few example) are very religious

Man_of_Faith

These people have the wrong perception of what is "God" and they has fabricated rites and rituals to please that god which is no less an image of worship which breaks the ancient commandment sent to Moses. And the law never changes.

Have faith

Farabi

These people have the wrong perception of what is "God" and they has fabricated rites and rituals to please that god which is no less an image of worship which breaks the ancient commandment sent to Moses. And the law never changes.

Have faith

Who are those people?

Man_of_Faith

Harmony,

The fabricators, and the sectarians which follow them.

Have faith

drfazl

Good and bad are not equals; Truth and lies are not equals; right and wrongs are not equals; humility and arrogance are not equals; heavens and the earth are not equals; God and man - are they equals? Are God's creations and man's inventions are equals?

God's Path and human's 'isms' - are they equals? Is God ordained individually being righteous for the fear for Him; and man's wretched Secularism equal? The whole thread comparing Quran with men invented life modes is futility.

Jafar

God's Path and human's 'isms' - are they equals? Is God ordained individually being righteous for the fear for Him; and man's wretched Secularism or Religion equal? The whole thread comparing Quran with men invented life modes is futility.

Besides the addition above, please be mindful that the book called Quran was also written by men... thus also man's invention..

The difference between "God's decree/law" and human false hypothesis is very simple..
God's decree / law is true and automatically binding.. it doesn't need any human effort to enforce it.
All human is automatically forced to follow it, willingly or unwillingly..

Among the example is Survival of the fittest, where fit in human case will be "nice"..
Those who are not nice shall become extinct.. although the process is happening gradually..

Salam / Peace

Armanaziz

The difference between "God's decree/law" and human false hypothesis is very simple..
God's decree / law is true and automatically binding.. it doesn't need any human effort to enforce it.
All human is automatically forced to follow it, willingly or unwillingly..

Among the example is Survival of the fittest, where fit in human case will be "nice"..
Those who are not nice shall become extinct.. although the process is happening gradually..

Salamun Alakikum.

Are all of God's laws automatically binding.. and do not need any human effort to enforce it?

How about respect your parents, never decieve others, never consume wealth of other wrongfully?

Arman

Farabi

Salamun Alakikum.

Are all of God's laws automatically binding.. and do not need any human effort to enforce it?

How about respect your parents, never decieve others, never consume wealth of other wrongfully?

Arman

Those who break that laws will face lots of difficulty on their life. Its true, God law is binded to us naturally. Try to break that law and you will suffer.

runninglikezebras

Look at any law in any country of your choice and you will find similarities between it's civil law code and Gods system handed over to his prophets. Even those societies who strictly seperate religion from government have many elements in them that are a perfect match with eg the 10 commandments.

On a microscopic level man strives towards perfection but never entirely achieves it. On a macroscopic level societies do the same. They aren't perfect. They can only strive to be. Imho this is best achieved with respecting human rights. An idea that originated in faith not in atheism, polytheism or idolatry.

By nature any society that respects the God given system to some degree has a longer projected lifespan than one that rejects Gods system entirely. The latter option is by nature self-destructive and has led many cultures of the past to ruins.

Jafar

Are all of God's laws automatically binding.. and do not need any human effort to enforce it?

Correct

How about respect your parents, never decieve others, never consume wealth of other wrongfully?

It's a recommendation IF you want certain things happened to you..
Based on the law which God has set out and enforced..

Deceive others and thou shall be deceived..
Hurt others and thou shall be hurt.
Etc..

Everyone shall get what they deserves..