Sura ArRheman
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(551) (552)
The greatest concern for the suffering and misfortunes of others is to impart knowledge which was compiled together part by part.(In Quran above are considered two different verses and hence mistakenly considered two sentences. Linguistically, this cannot be correct. Firstly, we know that division of Quran into Sura and Ayas is a later phenomenon and an addition. Furthermore, the word in 551 is a definite noun. A noun only cannot form a full sentence, although a verb alone can, in the Arabic language. However, if combined with 552 it becomes a full sentence with Subject-verb-Object).
These three words constitute a simple nominal stentence. First Proper Noun is the subject of sentence. Verbal sentence is the Predicate.
"to impart knowledge" is the translation of a verbal noun NOT of a perfect verb. Verb is Form-II; it has a subject, third person, singular, masuline which refers to First Noun. This Verb needs two objects. Second is mentioned - the Qur'aan, first one -to whom it was taught is elided. -
These three words constitute a simple nominal stentence.
Dear Mazhar, thanks for the comments. I would hope that we can keep this discussion in the spirit of learning, unlike in past. So above implies you agree that these two verses are actually one sentence.
"First Proper Noun is the subject of sentence. Verbal sentence is the Predicate."
To best of my knowledge, in classic Arabic there are only two major division of sentences. "A nominal sentence" and "A verbal sentence". The difference being that a nominal sentence starts with "a noun" and verbal sentence start with a verb. I am not aware that a verbal sentence can be a predicate in nominal sentence and yet be consider a verbal sentence. Do you mind sharing an authentic referance?
"to impart knowledge" is the translation of a verbal noun NOT of a perfect verb. Verb is Form-II;".
, II form of verb is translated as "to teach" (Ref Wright Vol 1 page 41 rem 41). Furthermore, in English language "teach" also means "to pass on knowledge". Please see link below.
http//en.wiktionary.org/wiki/teach
Hope you do not mind sharing the rationale of your this critique as well?
"This Verb needs two objects. Second is mentioned - the Qur'aan, first one -to whom it was taught is elided. "
Only those verbs that are transitive in first form become doubly transitive in second form. The elided one is conjecture on your part. From the syntax it becomes clear that it is "one suffering and misfortunate.
However, based upon your objections and my understanding of these objections. The meanings of first two verses need to be changed as following.
"The greatest concern for the suffering and misfortunes of others is to pass knowledge which was compiled together part by part."
Also please share your translation based upon your understanding after our discussion as well based on your own understanding of grammar and syntax of these verese. So I can review your undestanding based upon language.
Regards,
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I am not aware that a verbal sentence can be a predicate in nominal sentence and yet be consider a verbal sentence. Do you mind sharing an authentic referance?
'The Comment
The comment of a sentence may be a single word, a phrase, or an entire sentence. When it is an entire sentence, that sentence will have its own structure and all the rules currently under discussion will apply to it as well. "http//www.learnarabiconline.com/nominal-sentences.shtml
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"This Verb needs two objects. Second is mentioned - the Qur'aan, first one -to whom it was taught is elided. "
Only those verbs that are transitive in first form become doubly transitive in second form. The elided one is conjecture on your part. From the syntax it becomes clear that it is "one suffering and misfortunate.
Form II conveys to make someone learn the book. "to teach" means to impart knowledge to somebody. For this you need a student whom one teaches the book.
Please see the next ayah to find that the same verb has two objects.
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Thanks again. Based upon review of 4th verse due this discussion, it should be translated as following.
554
Pass on to him this knowledge, which he has become separated and cut off.
Regards,
Please reflect on your assembly of words; they can't be considered a meaningful sentence. Also, you have converted a perfect third person singular verb into imperative verb.
The third person singular masculine pronoun, first object of verb refers to the Man. What is taught to him is the second object of verb -
Let us try it this way, so you do not feel that it is an imperative.
554
This knowledge needs to be passed on to him, since he became seperated and cut off.
Are you reluctant to share your undestanding of first two verses?
Regards,
You sentence is vague and incomplete by English grammar standards also.
It has no relevance to the Arabic sentence. -
You sentence is vague and incomplete by English grammar standards also.
It has no relevance to the Arabic sentence.Please be specific and open to point out. What is vague and how, why it is incomplete? I am just after truth and have no other agendas or pre concieved notions.
Regards,
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Please be specific and open to point out. What is vague and how, why it is incomplete? I am just after truth and have no other agendas or pre concieved notions.
Regards,
This knowledge needs to be passed on to him, since he became seperated and cut off.
A sentence is called vague and incomplete when questions can be raised. "He became seperated and cut off" from what and why. Why this knowledge needs to be passed on to him? Who is him? "This knowledge needs to be passed on to him", This is opinion, whose opinion is this?
If you restrict to Arabic text, such meaningless assertions could be avoided.
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A sentence is called vague and incomplete when questions can be raised. "He became seperated and cut off" from what and why.
Thanks for further clarification. The idea is to understand Quran based upon its language without the help of historic accounts to what it may mean. This understanding needs to be presented in current languages that people understand. One such language is English. However, using Arabic words as such in English cannot convey the meanings of words as would have been understood by its native speakers.
Let's just take example of ArRehman. It is a verbal noun which conveys the meanings contained in its verb without any reference to subject, object, time and place. Therefore, to treat it as proper noun is not only linguistically inappropriate but loses all concepts that it contains.
Furthermore, translating it as compassion although not inaccurate but still does not covey its meanings even in English to an ordinary reader. Compassion really means " concern or conscious awareness of misfortune and suffering of others coupled with wish to relieve it". Furthermore, Quran does not mean only the book under discussion but all knowledge that is compiled part by part over time.
Keeping above in mind and the subject mater discussed in the first two verses. The 3 rd verse is pointing out that this knowledge got lost due forgeries. Keeping same theme going, the forth verse is indicating that as result of true concern for others suffering pass on such knowledge. Since these others are cut off from such knowledge due forgeries which is the solution for suffering and misfortune.
If one pays close attention to these four verses. These have truly universal principles and wisdom.
What do you think?
Regards,
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Let's just take example of ArRehman. It is a verbal noun which conveys the meanings contained in its verb without any reference to subject, object, time and place. Therefore, to treat it as proper noun is not only linguistically inappropriate but loses all concepts that it contains.
Dear who told you that it is verbal noun? Try to make a verb from it.
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(In Quran above are considered two different verses and hence mistakenly considered two sentences. Linguistically, this cannot be correct. Firstly, we know that division of Quran into Sura and Ayas is a later phenomenon and an addition. Furthermore, the word in 551 is a definite noun. A noun only cannot form a full sentence, although a verb alone can, in the Arabic language.
Peace bro,
I have a problem with the red highlighted part above. I strongly believe that if human interference is allowed in the Book of Allah then it will not remain as the Book of Allah. Better to call it is a Book of Allah and His creation. I believe that this Book is as-is still with no change.
What are the sources of this claim of yours? Please share with us.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Dear Mazhar, really? Verbal nouns are made from verbs and not verbs from nouns.
So in your belief Rehman is not a verbal noun from verb root RA-HA-MIIM?
Regards,
Kindly start reading about morphology in Arabic. Your foundation is based on wrong understanding.
Third person masculine singular verb is derived from a Verbal Noun. Thereat, most of remaining tenses are made from this tense,
Similarly the third person acive voice singular masculine primary imperfect verb is derived from active voice past tense.
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Peace bro,
What are the sources of this claim of yours? Please share with us.
Please see link below for one of the oldest preserved Quran. You could search others as well including Sana's. What proof one wants when there is written text without Suras and verse numbers.
http//goldkoran.mse.jhu.edu/htdocs/mrsid/Koran/
Regards
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Kindly start reading about morphology in Arabic. Your foundation is based on wrong understanding.
Third person masculine singular verb is derived from a Verbal Noun. Thereat, most of remaining tenses are made from this tense,
Similarly the third person acive voice singular masculine primary imperfect verb is derived from active voice past tense.
Some Authentic references in the form of book or article please, not just a web site claim regarding above claims.
Regards
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Please see link below for one of the oldest preserved Quran. You could search others as well including Sana's. What proof one wants when there is written text without Suras and verse numbers.
http//goldkoran.mse.jhu.edu/htdocs/mrsid/Koran/
Regards
Peace bro,
Thanks for reply and the link.
But I cannot believe it to be true. These are the tricks used by those who wrote hadith to misguide people.
I strongly believe that the book was sent down as-is which is in current form.
Without aayat numbers and without any diacritics no one exist in the world who can understand it.
And when human interferes in the Book of Allah, then it will not remain but like a hadith with no importance.
This is how I understand it.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan