Sura ArRheman
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Thanks again. Based upon review of 4th verse due this discussion, it should be translated as following.
554
Pass on to him this knowledge, which he has become separated and cut off.
Regards,
Please reflect on your assembly of words; they can't be considered a meaningful sentence. Also, you have converted a perfect third person singular verb into imperative verb.
The third person singular masculine pronoun, first object of verb refers to the Man. What is taught to him is the second object of verb -
Let us try it this way, so you do not feel that it is an imperative.
554
This knowledge needs to be passed on to him, since he became seperated and cut off.
Are you reluctant to share your undestanding of first two verses?
Regards,
You sentence is vague and incomplete by English grammar standards also.
It has no relevance to the Arabic sentence. -
You sentence is vague and incomplete by English grammar standards also.
It has no relevance to the Arabic sentence.Please be specific and open to point out. What is vague and how, why it is incomplete? I am just after truth and have no other agendas or pre concieved notions.
Regards,
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Please be specific and open to point out. What is vague and how, why it is incomplete? I am just after truth and have no other agendas or pre concieved notions.
Regards,
This knowledge needs to be passed on to him, since he became seperated and cut off.
A sentence is called vague and incomplete when questions can be raised. "He became seperated and cut off" from what and why. Why this knowledge needs to be passed on to him? Who is him? "This knowledge needs to be passed on to him", This is opinion, whose opinion is this?
If you restrict to Arabic text, such meaningless assertions could be avoided.
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A sentence is called vague and incomplete when questions can be raised. "He became seperated and cut off" from what and why.
Thanks for further clarification. The idea is to understand Quran based upon its language without the help of historic accounts to what it may mean. This understanding needs to be presented in current languages that people understand. One such language is English. However, using Arabic words as such in English cannot convey the meanings of words as would have been understood by its native speakers.
Let's just take example of ArRehman. It is a verbal noun which conveys the meanings contained in its verb without any reference to subject, object, time and place. Therefore, to treat it as proper noun is not only linguistically inappropriate but loses all concepts that it contains.
Furthermore, translating it as compassion although not inaccurate but still does not covey its meanings even in English to an ordinary reader. Compassion really means " concern or conscious awareness of misfortune and suffering of others coupled with wish to relieve it". Furthermore, Quran does not mean only the book under discussion but all knowledge that is compiled part by part over time.
Keeping above in mind and the subject mater discussed in the first two verses. The 3 rd verse is pointing out that this knowledge got lost due forgeries. Keeping same theme going, the forth verse is indicating that as result of true concern for others suffering pass on such knowledge. Since these others are cut off from such knowledge due forgeries which is the solution for suffering and misfortune.
If one pays close attention to these four verses. These have truly universal principles and wisdom.
What do you think?
Regards,
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Let's just take example of ArRehman. It is a verbal noun which conveys the meanings contained in its verb without any reference to subject, object, time and place. Therefore, to treat it as proper noun is not only linguistically inappropriate but loses all concepts that it contains.
Dear who told you that it is verbal noun? Try to make a verb from it.
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(In Quran above are considered two different verses and hence mistakenly considered two sentences. Linguistically, this cannot be correct. Firstly, we know that division of Quran into Sura and Ayas is a later phenomenon and an addition. Furthermore, the word in 551 is a definite noun. A noun only cannot form a full sentence, although a verb alone can, in the Arabic language.
Peace bro,
I have a problem with the red highlighted part above. I strongly believe that if human interference is allowed in the Book of Allah then it will not remain as the Book of Allah. Better to call it is a Book of Allah and His creation. I believe that this Book is as-is still with no change.
What are the sources of this claim of yours? Please share with us.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Dear Mazhar, really? Verbal nouns are made from verbs and not verbs from nouns.
So in your belief Rehman is not a verbal noun from verb root RA-HA-MIIM?
Regards,
Kindly start reading about morphology in Arabic. Your foundation is based on wrong understanding.
Third person masculine singular verb is derived from a Verbal Noun. Thereat, most of remaining tenses are made from this tense,
Similarly the third person acive voice singular masculine primary imperfect verb is derived from active voice past tense.
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Peace bro,
What are the sources of this claim of yours? Please share with us.
Please see link below for one of the oldest preserved Quran. You could search others as well including Sana's. What proof one wants when there is written text without Suras and verse numbers.
http//goldkoran.mse.jhu.edu/htdocs/mrsid/Koran/
Regards
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Kindly start reading about morphology in Arabic. Your foundation is based on wrong understanding.
Third person masculine singular verb is derived from a Verbal Noun. Thereat, most of remaining tenses are made from this tense,
Similarly the third person acive voice singular masculine primary imperfect verb is derived from active voice past tense.
Some Authentic references in the form of book or article please, not just a web site claim regarding above claims.
Regards
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Please see link below for one of the oldest preserved Quran. You could search others as well including Sana's. What proof one wants when there is written text without Suras and verse numbers.
http//goldkoran.mse.jhu.edu/htdocs/mrsid/Koran/
Regards
Peace bro,
Thanks for reply and the link.
But I cannot believe it to be true. These are the tricks used by those who wrote hadith to misguide people.
I strongly believe that the book was sent down as-is which is in current form.
Without aayat numbers and without any diacritics no one exist in the world who can understand it.
And when human interferes in the Book of Allah, then it will not remain but like a hadith with no importance.
This is how I understand it.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace bro,
I strongly believe that the book was sent down as-is which is in current form.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanBro people believe a lot of things. Belief only means an opinion. Your are entitled to your opinion. However, I thought you were after knowledge. The minimum definition of knowledge is "Justified true belief". I presented not with just a justification but fact, so you could have "verified true belief" the ultimate knowledge. It is up to you, reject knowledge, due held beliefs. However, this is not what our Rabb says, because in the beginning he has given only praise for himself as "the Rabb of all disciplines of knowledge",
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I strongly believe that the book was sent down as-is which is in current form.
Without aayat numbers and without any diacritics no one exist in the world who can understand it.Peace mmKhan,
This is reported to be the oldest Qur'an...
http//idb.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/diglit/MaVI165
The investigated Qur?an manuscript with the signature MA VI 165
http//www.commdiginews.com/world-news/middle-east/worlds-oldest-quran-discovered-and-may-be-linked-to-imam-ali-30011/WASHINGTON, November 19, 2014 ? Researchers from the Project Coranica at the University Library in T?bingen, Germany have discovered a copy of the Quran that may be the oldest in the world, dating to within 20-40 years of the death of Islam?s Prophet Muhammad. The copy of the Quran, dubbed Ma VI 165 by scientists, appears in the famous ?Kufic script?, popularized by Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib who moved the center of the Islamic government to Kufa in the after being elected as ?Caliph? in 656 AD. The manuscript ?with a 95.4% statistical probability can be dated to the period between Ad 649 -675,? according to Medieval Histories Magazine.
http//oi62.tinypic.com/rk23xz.jpg
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How people are sure that quran was dated about year 649, while I saw the book looks not old enoug. I saw older manuscript and its color was brown, that is animal skin paper would be when it was old enough, and if it was paper, it absolutely impossible to be preserved for 1400 years, it gonna be destroyed, esp. when met with water.
And also, what about the quran passed down time to time holded by the sunni? It could be from the original quran while the quran found above posibly quran which is not completed. Dont you know caligraphy was popular on the quran copy years ago? Why youre so sure if that quran is not a personal journal which was accidentaly preserved?
Anyone can convince me why that picture was called the oldest quran?
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How people are sure that quran was dated about year 649, while I saw the book looks not old enoug. I saw older manuscript and its color was brown, that is animal skin paper would be when it was old enough, and if it was paper, it absolutely impossible to be preserved for 1400 years, it gonna be destroyed, esp. when met with water.
And also, what about the quran passed down time to time holded by the sunni? It could be from the original quran while the quran found above posibly quran which is not completed. Dont you know caligraphy was popular on the quran copy years ago? Why youre so sure if that quran is not a personal journal which was accidentaly preserved?
Anyone can convince me why that picture was called the oldest quran?
Please do some search about presevation of Quran and its text developement. It took place over almost three centuries and earlier Muslims had no problem with it and discussed openly. I personally have no problem with it. Once I am able to discern that Allah does not mean "One and only deity for worship" rather the opposite "One who is not at all a deity for worship". This is how it should been preserved, when later is the true meanings of Allah.
However, preservation process still does not bar one from understanding Quran. Because the available archieves of its language are with all Haarkat and Saknaat as well Araabs. In fact it would be impossible to understand Quran based upon language using the old manuscripts.
Regards,