Inheritance according to Qur?an
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OK Mazhar, it's all imaginative 1/8, 1/6, 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3...
Dear what you wish not to see is that a condition clause is exclusive to another conditional clause. If you were little aware of legal parlance, you cannot jumble up all the conditional clauses and their apodosis clause and start making them one for all clauses.
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@Noon
"to the male similitude apportion the two (females)"
Which means the distribution, when two females and one male, is equal for all of them?
Perhaps although there are problems when applying consistently with 4176
As to sister Samia, I miss her indeed and I learnt a lot reading her contributions. She was also very polite and ready to help. Not that I always agreed with her, but that was another of her good points, it did not annoy her int he least.
Salaam huruf, yes do miss sister Samia as well which comes to mind our conversations...
411 have to ask where are instructions for exactly 2 daughters?
4176 we have to ask where are the instructions for 3+ sisters?She did point out they were there exactly two 411 and 3+ in 4176 thus an alternative reading/view would be
411 instructs you the god in awldikum/offspring yours
1 daughter 1/2 fixed 1 son 1/2 - 411 and if be she one so for her the half
2 daughters 1/4 each 1 son 1/2 - 411 to the male similitude apportion the two females
3 daughters 2/3 fixed 1 son 1/3 - 411 so if be nisan over two (f) so for them (f) 2/31 daughter 1/2 fixed 2 sons 1/4 each
2 daughters 1/5 each 2 sons 2/5 each
3 daughters 2/3 fixed 2 sons 1/6 each (nisa case 3+ females)1 daughter 1/2 fixed 3 sons 1/6 each
2 daughters 1/8 each 3 sons 1/4 each
3 daughters 2/3 fixed 3 sons 1/9 each (nisa case 3+ females)4176 they seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in al-kalalati
1 sister 1/2 fixed 1 brother 1/2 - 4176 and for him sister so for her half
2 sisters 2/3 fixed 1 brother 1/3 - 4176 so if be dual two (f) so to them dual (f) the third each (2/3)
3 sisters 1/5 each 1 brother 2/5 - 4176 so to the male similitude apportion the two females1 sister 1/2 fixed 2 brothers 1/4 each
2 sisters 2/3 fixed 2 brothers 1/6 each
3 sisters 1/6 each 2 brothers 1/3 each (nisa case 3+ females)1 sister 1/2 fixed 3 brothers 1/6 each
2 sisters 2/3 fixed 3 brothers 1/9 each
3 sisters 1/9 each 3 brothers 2/9 each (nisa case 3+ females)Peace
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Peace Truthseeker.
I am still unclear. Look is "My "Ibaadi"( servants or whatever you translate the word as...) in the verse implying GOD s or Muhammed s?
Also you say this
Lastly, even God allegedly wants us to follow the best of what has been sent down from God
3955 And follow the best of what has been sent down to you from your Lord, before the retribution comes to you suddenly when you least expect it.
This implies that God does not want us to follow ALL that is sent down from God but only the best and which implies that some of what God has sent down is not the best and should not be followed! God is perhaps not confident about all of what God sent down?????? Is this God really the infinite Creator whose EVERY inspiration is perfection and the best??????
Wrong understanding of GOD wants you to follow all of it .
simply means Follow the best path that is pointed out for you by your Lord, before the retribution overtakes you suddenly when you least expect it.(Not follow some and leave some?)GOD bless you .
Peace. -
Peace Truthseeker.
I am still unclear. Look is "My "Ibaadi"( servants or whatever you translate the word as...) in the verse implying GOD s or Muhammed s?
Also you say this
Lastly, even God allegedly wants us to follow the best of what has been sent down from God
3955 And follow the best of what has been sent down to you from your Lord, before the retribution comes to you suddenly when you least expect it.
This implies that God does not want us to follow ALL that is sent down from God but only the best and which implies that some of what God has sent down is not the best and should not be followed! God is perhaps not confident about all of what God sent down?????? Is this God really the infinite Creator whose EVERY inspiration is perfection and the best??????
Wrong understanding of GOD wants you to follow all of it .
simply means Follow the best path that is pointed out for you by your Lord, before the retribution overtakes you suddenly when you least expect it.(Not follow some and leave some?)GOD bless you .
Peace.This further clarifies your view point
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/6.55a.gif
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/6.55b.gif
Like this simple and vivid communication, We render the miscellany of Unitary verbal passages individuated; distinguishing and exposing information in crystallized manner.
The objective is that the Path-conduct of criminals may become self demarcated-manifested-highlighted.Grand Qur'aan talks about every person. The best course of conduct is given while worst course adopted by people is also given. Instruction is to diligently pursue the best course.
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Dear what you wish not to see is that a condition clause is exclusive to another conditional clause. If you were little aware of legal parlance, you cannot jumble up all the conditional clauses and their apodosis clause and start making them one for all clauses.
Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 025131 AM
It is plural and is NOMINATIVE. It is the subject noun of deficient perfect verb "Kana", and is about its fronted predicate. It means "However, if brothers and sisters of the deceased also existed, thereby, the One Sixth shall be the share apportioned for his Mother."Dear Mazhar, since you posted above and understand legal parlance.
Allocate assets tell which verses you're applying; takes few minutes?
mother 1 sister
mother 2 sisters
mother 3 sistersmother 1 brother 1 sister
mother 1 brother 2 sisters
mother 1 brother 3 sistersPeace
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Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 025131 AM
It is plural and is NOMINATIVE. It is the subject noun of deficient perfect verb "Kana", and is about its fronted predicate. It means "However, if brothers and sisters of the deceased also existed, thereby, the One Sixth shall be the share apportioned for his Mother."Dear Mazhar, since you posted above and understand legal parlance.
Allocate assets tell which verses you're applying; takes few minutes?
mother 1 sister
mother 2 sisters
mother 3 sistersmother 1 brother 1 sister
mother 1 brother 2 sisters
mother 1 brother 3 sistersPeace
Whatever might be the ground reality about the deceased and the bereaved survivors who will inherit the wealth left by deceased are inalienably allocated by Allah the Exalted to the maximum of two thirds of inheritance, and has left 1/3rd according to the will of deceased provided it has no tilt and patent injustice whereat it can be modified by the survivors/court.
A. First four sentences of Ayah 411 deal with inheritance in case of death of Parents to progenies
- One female/daughter 1/2 of wealth.
- Two females/daughters 2/3rd
- Two daughters + women/daughters = 2/3rd
- Two sisters + son = 2/3rd
- Progenies exceeding one daughter = 2/3rd
Progenies exceeding one dauther if comprise mixed genders the fortune accruing to two females will be allocated on to one male]
Please carefully notice that if a parent is he/she who died leaving only one son or no son is NOT mentioned in these conditional sentences.B. Sentences 5 to 7 of Ayah 411 deal situation where a married son of living parents has died.
From Married Son to parents, wife and one surviving son, or without son.- If bereaved by one son; surviving father and mother get 1/6th each
- If did not have a son; is survived by both parents; 1/3rd is allocated for the mother of deceased;
- If alongwith surviving parent, the deceased has brothers, the share of the modher is reduced to 1/6th.
Continues with 412
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If the Man is bereaved by son, the share for bereaved wife is 1/8th;
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If not bereaved by a son; the share allocated for bereaved wife is 1/4th.
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If the deceased is woman, the husband will get 1/2 if she is not bereaved by one son; and 1/4th if she is bereaved by one sone.
C Sentences 7 and eight decsribed about the deceased man or woman was in state of Kalala spouse less; with single parent surviving; and one son surviving.
- In the bereaved is either brother or sister; he or she will get 1/6th;
- If the brothers and sisters are more than one they will get 1/3rd of inheritance.
D 4176
The above allocations by Allah the Exalted did not mention about only one situation that might be a ground reality. People hastened asking the Messenger to give verdict about that. The situation is about a person dying as Kalala bachelor or spouseless without bereaved by a son. Verdict was given by Allah as under- If deceased bachelor or spous less without leaving a son is a person who is bereaved by a sister; her share will be one half of wealth left;
- If a sister died in such state leaving a bereaved brother who is her heir he will get 1/2 of her wealth.
- If the deceased Kalala without a son has two sisters to bereave him, two third of wealth will accrue to these two sisters.
- If sibblings were a composition of brothers and sisters, they will get the same two third to be distributed amiongst them on the principle of two shares accruing to two sisters will be given to one male.
These are shares apportioned by Allah the Exalted superseding the will of the deceased. Will for remaining wealth will prevail. If will is not left, it will be decided by the near relatives or by the court adhering to principle of preference for nearness discarding the relatively distant rellationships.
Noon,
Please critically peruse the article and I will welcome and appreciate if you negate by argument based on the words and sentences of Qur'aan.Inheritance according to injunctions in Grand Qur'aan
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A. First four sentences of Ayah 411 deal with inheritance in case of death of Parents to progenies
- One female/daughter 1/2 of wealth.
OK 411 ? and if knat/be she widatan/one so for her the half
- Two females/daughters 2/3rd
Where you get exactly two daughters get 2/3?
411 ? fawqa/above two (f) so for them (f/p) third dual (2/3)
fawqa/above/greater than > two cannot be equal and above => two!
above > it!
above > you!
above > them!618 ... fawqa/above servants his NOT equal and above => servants his!
- Two daughters + women/daughters = 2/3rd
Why two daughters + women/daughters -- what are you saying?
- Two sisters + son = 2/3rd
What verses?
411 ? falahunna/so for them (feminine plural) 2/3
4176 ? falahum/so to them dual (feminine) the third each- Progenies exceeding one daughter = 2/3rd
Please post verse 2+ daughters and/or sons get 2/3?
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=9839
falahunna (feminine plural) includes males?Noon,
Please critically peruse the article and I will welcome and appreciate if you negate by argument based on the words and sentences of Qur'aan.Mazhar, lets stay focused on above according to words and sentences of Qur'an then we can proceed.
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OK 411 ? and if knat/be she widatan/one so for her the half
Where you get exactly two daughters get 2/3?
411 ? fawqa/above two (f) so for them (f/p) third dual (2/3)
fawqa/above/greater than > two cannot be equal and above => two!
above > it!
above > you!
above > them!618 ... fawqa/above servants his NOT equal and above => servants his!
Why two daughters + women/daughters -- what are you saying?
What verses?
411 ? falahunna/so for them (feminine plural) 2/3
4176 ? falahum/so to them dual (feminine) the third eachPlease post verse 2+ daughters and/or sons get 2/3?
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=9839
falahunna (feminine plural) includes males?Mazhar, lets stay focused on above according to words and sentences of Qur'an then we can proceed.
This is what I am trying to pursuade you. First step is to know the propositions inherent in each word before studying phrases and sentences to arrive at correct understanding of the embedded information.
Red pronoun denotes second person plural masculine and is the object of verb. I hope you know that plural nouns have inclusions and exclusions with reference to the text. Who are excluded from this otherwise plural noun? Who are restrictively included in this pronoun?
It is possessive phrase. Who are included in this plural noun and excluded from it for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?
Do you know the above two points; please share so that we proceed further.
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Do you know the above two points; please share so that we proceed further.
411 instructs you the god in awldikum/offspring yours
2233 and the mothers breastfeed they awldahunna/offspring theirsNot sure what's not clear or if you have translation other than offspring/children?
Now please answer questions without perpetual questions, did you not write this?
Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 025131 AM
It is plural and is NOMINATIVE. It is the subject noun of deficient perfect verb "Kana", and is about its fronted predicate. It means "However, if brothers and sisters of the deceased also existed, thereby, the One Sixth shall be the share apportioned for his Mother."Which I asked you to allocate assets tell which verses you are applying?
mother 1 sister
mother 2 sisters
mother 3 sistersmother 1 brother 1 sister
mother 1 brother 2 sisters
mother 1 brother 3 sistersLikewise where does it say that exactly two daughters get 2/3?
411 ? fawqa/above two (f) so for them (f/p) third dual (2/3)
fawqa/above/greater than > two CANNOT be equal and above => two!
618 ... fawqa/above servants his NOT equal and above => servants his!
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Peace good logic,
I am still unclear. Look is "My "Ibaadi"( servants or whatever you translate the word as...) in the verse implying GOD s or Muhammed s?
I have tried explaining the issue as clearly as possible, so I don't know how to explain it further. The issue is not whether it is God's or Muhammad's. The issue is consistency of person in the same sentence. The narration starts in first person and then jumps to third person in same sentence.
Wrong understanding of GOD wants you to follow all of it .
simply means Follow the best path that is pointed out for you by your Lord, before the retribution overtakes you suddenly when you least expect it.(Not follow some and leave some?)Thank you for your understanding which makes sense if the original Arabic actually says what you are interpreting. I am not a linguistic expert and I'm still not clear on this.
Does "ahsana ma unzila ilaykum" mean "the best OF what has been sent down to you"?
OR does it mean "the best THAT has been sent down to you" as you are implying?It is about 50/50 for both translations from traditional translators.
Input from a classical Arabic linguistic and grammar expert will be appreciated.
What about 3918?
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best OF it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
Almost every translator translates it as "the best OF it" which leads to the same issues I pointed out in my previous post, i.e.
"This implies that God does not want us to follow ALL that is being said from God but only the best, which implies that some of what God said is not the best and should not be followed! God is perhaps not confident about all of what God said?????? Is this God really the infinite Creator whose EVERY inspiration is perfection and the best??????
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you and reward you for all your good works.
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Do you know the above two points; please share so that we proceed further.
411 instructs you the god in awldikum/offspring yours
2233 and the mothers breastfeed they awldahunna/offspring theirsNot sure what's not clear or if you have translation other than offspring/children?
Now please answer questions without perpetual questions, did you not write this?
I had asked
Red pronoun denotes second person plural masculine and is the object of verb. I hope you know that plural nouns have inclusions and exclusions with reference to the text. Who are excluded from this otherwise plural noun? Who are restrictively included in this pronoun?
The object pronoun does not refer to bachelor adult people. It does not include all the people. It refers only to parents mohers and fathers, individually and collectively.
It is possessive phrase. Who are included in this plural noun and excluded from it for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?
You have not understood as to what this plural refers to and which situation it does not link to. There are other words to refer to children but the choice is this broken plural feminine noun. It cannot individually refer to a solitary son. It also cannot be referred when talking about dual progenies.
The superb choice of this broken paucity plural feminine noun reflects the beauty of succinctness in the Qur'aan. Feminine singular and plural pronouns of subsequent Verbs in the text could refer back to it, affording economy. The hidden subject of a singular masculine verb or a singular masculine third person pronoun of a possessive phrase cannot be referent to this plural feminine noun. Another aspect of its choice is that it has in its ambit the children, the semi-adults and progenies of strengthen maturity.
Other words for children do not include all these categories of progenies.
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Peace good logic,
I have tried explaining the issue as clearly as possible, so I don't know how to explain it further. The issue is not whether it is God's or Muhammad's. The issue is consistency of person in the same sentence. The narration starts in first person and then jumps to third person in same sentence.
Thank you for your understanding which makes sense if the original Arabic actually says what you are interpreting. I am not a linguistic expert and I'm still not clear on this.
Does "ahsana ma unzila ilaykum" mean "the best OF what has been sent down to you"?
OR does it mean "the best THAT has been sent down to you" as you are implying?It is about 50/50 for both translations from traditional translators.
Input from a classical Arabic linguistic and grammar expert will be appreciated.
What about 3918?
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best OF it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
Almost every translator translates it as "the best OF it" which leads to the same issues I pointed out in my previous post, i.e.
"This implies that God does not want us to follow ALL that is being said from God but only the best, which implies that some of what God said is not the best and should not be followed! God is perhaps not confident about all of what God said?????? Is this God really the infinite Creator whose EVERY inspiration is perfection and the best??????
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you and reward you for all your good works.
What does one look for in a divine revelation?
Bd things or good things?
Obviously good things. If it is bad things obviously the person looking at it is not looking for enlightment but for other things.
So if we get in that revelation something that may be translated as those things said previously, what do you understand?
Obviously if it is all good, that we should follow everything, and if we are told to follow the best, what do we understand?
What I think would be logical and sensible and in agreement with normal human intelligency would be that in the situation we may be or for the circumstance we are dealing with, we should the best counsel of the many counsel that we are given. We should look for the most appropriate to the particular case.
Obviously we ar enot being told to pick four best things and discard the rest.
That idea can only come to people when they split hairs and want to win an argument. It does not cocur to anybody who is thinking straight in the same way that if we go to a lawyer, and honest lawyer he will pick the best resource within the law system or judicial system to further our interests. It does not mean that that lawyer will pick one law which he will aply and discard the rest.
Salaam
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Peace huruf.
Thank you for your post. You do make a lot of sense.
Do you feel , like I do, that sometimes we are talking to walls / whistling in the wind...? I hope not, I have hope for those that really want to better their lives.
Sometimes I come to this site to just browse and read some excellent posts from different members and enjoy the moment.
I congratulate all those sincere members who just want to make this world a better place and have given up their time and made a lot of effort to write such good and sensible posts. Thank you for helping.
Well done to you all. Keep up the good work.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I had asked
The object pronoun does not refer to bachelor adult people. It does not include all the people. It refers only to parents mohers and fathers, individually and collectively.That's stating the obvious, of course address is to parents.
Quote
It is possessive phrase. Who are included in this plural noun and excluded from it for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?You have not understood as to what this plural refers to and which situation it does not link to. There are other words to refer to children but the choice is this broken plural feminine noun. It cannot individually refer to a solitary son. It also cannot be referred when talking about dual progenies].
Perhaps cross-reference occurrences of same word see it cannot exclude solitary son and dual children.
2233 and the mothers breastfeed they awldahunna/offspring theirs (except solitary son and dual children according to Mazhar they are excluded)
6151 ? and with the parents dual kindness of and not thou slay ye of offspring yours (except solitary son and dual children according to Mazhar they are excluded) from pauperism
6415 only wealth yours and offspring yours (except if solitary son and dual children according to Mazhar they are excluded) fit'natun/trial
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That's stating the obvious, of course address is to parents.
Perhaps cross-reference occurrences of same word see it cannot exclude solitary son and dual children.
2233 and the mothers breastfeed they awldahunna/offspring theirs (except solitary son and dual children according to Mazhar they are excluded)
6151 ? and with the parents dual kindness of and not thou slay ye of offspring yours (except solitary son and dual children according to Mazhar they are excluded) from pauperism
6415 only wealth yours and offspring yours (except if solitary son and dual children according to Mazhar they are excluded) fit'natun/trial
Dear Noon,
So you do not know and also wish not to know as to what is a broken plural in Arabic.
Please find a little time to read some English grammar book, if you wish not to read Arabic grammar to know that a plural noun has inclusions and exclusions when used with different collocates. When you question a person on first meeting and enquire
Q Have you children?
A. Yes, I have a son.Plural noun while refers simply to a collection of individuals in a positive, non-interrogative context, it can in interrogative refer to groups of individuals as well as to singular individuals.
Your quoting of other occurrences revealed that you have not at all perceived what I had said.
You read a word and focussed upon it ignoring what is said about it. You did not read "for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?"
The subject noun of this verb refers to Aulaad.
The signular feminine subject noun of this singular verb is hidden and it also refers to Aulaad.
But the hidden masculine verb in a singular verb will NOT refer to it.
Similarly masculine plural noun or pronoun will not be referent for Aulaad.
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Dear Noon,
It is Prepositional phrase clubbed with Possessive Phrase. Possessive Pronoun is third person, singular, masculine.
I need not tell you that a pronoun is used only when its referent has already been mentioned. Who is this fellow for whose parents something is being reserved?
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Dear Mazhar -- can you please clearly answer yes or no?
2233 and the mothers breastfeed they offspring theirs
Does above exclude solitary son and dual children according to you?
6151 ? and not thou slay ye of offspring yours
Does above exclude solitary son and dual children according to you?
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Dear Mazhar -- can you please clearly answer yes or no?
2233 and the mothers breastfeed they offspring theirs
Does above exclude solitary son and dual children according to you?
6151 ? and not thou slay ye of offspring yours
Does above exclude solitary son and dual children according to you?
Dear Noon,
You are naively ignoring the point I am asking you to look into. If you wish to mention a son with reference to this plural noun you cannot do it. Pay a little attention which I previously highlighted with red colour ""for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?"
In the sentence the doers are plural and progenies is plural; individually a parent may have a single son, in the collective sentence it is included. But if you wish to link back a son to plural feminine noun, you cant do it.
When I say a singular son, or dual are not included in the broken plural, it means as referent, they as subject or object of a possessive phrase cannot link back to it. Only singular and plural feminine pronouns of subjects of a verb will link to it.
We cannot understand-perceive what is stated in Arabic text without knowing the linkages and relationship of words.
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Dear Mazhar,
Why contradict yourself avoid simple Yes/No questions? It's OK to say you erred and changed your mind.
You wrote this
A. First four sentences of Ayah 411 deal with inheritance in case of death of Parents to progenies
We agree address is obviously to parents concerning their children.
411 ykumu/instructs you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)
You also wrote this
It is possessive phrase. ...
There are other words to refer to children but the choice is this broken plural feminine noun. It cannot individually refer to a solitary son. It also cannot be referred when talking about dual progenies.http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=9829
Please use common sense answer Yes/No -- can a solitary son and dual children be excluded in verses below?
2233 .... and if aradttum/want you (2nd person masculine plural verb) that another breastfeed they of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)
6151... and with the parents dual kindness of and not thou slay ye of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) from pauperism
603 never tanfaakum/benefit you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) armukum/relatives yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) and not awldukum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) day the resurrection ...
6414 O you the ones believe ye of surely from azwjikum/spouses yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) wa-awldikum/and offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) enemy of for you
6415 only amwlukum/wealth yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) wa-awldukum/and offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) fit'natun/trial
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Dear Noon,
So you do not know and also wish not to know as to what is a broken plural in Arabic.
Please find a little time to read some English grammar book, if you wish not to read Arabic grammar to know that a plural noun has inclusions and exclusions when used with different collocates. When you question a person on first meeting and enquire
Q Have you children?
A. Yes, I have a son.Plural noun while refers simply to a collection of individuals in a positive, non-interrogative context, it can in interrogative refer to groups of individuals as well as to singular individuals.
Your quoting of other occurrences revealed that you have not at all perceived what I had said.
You read a word and focussed upon it ignoring what is said about it. You did not read "for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?"
The subject noun of this verb refers to Aulaad.
The signular feminine subject noun of this singular verb is hidden and it also refers to Aulaad.
But the hidden masculine verb in a singular verb will NOT refer to it.
Similarly masculine plural noun or pronoun will not be referent for Aulaad.
Noon,
You are understanding what is terribly wrong with your position. Simply tell about these sentences that who are the subjects of these verbs. Subject must be present either after the verb or before the verb.