Inheritance according to Qur?an

Mazhar

Do you know the above two points; please share so that we proceed further.
411 instructs you the god in awldikum/offspring yours
2233 and the mothers breastfeed they awldahunna/offspring theirs

Not sure what's not clear or if you have translation other than offspring/children?

Now please answer questions without perpetual questions, did you not write this?

I had asked

Red pronoun denotes second person plural masculine and is the object of verb. I hope you know that plural nouns have inclusions and exclusions with reference to the text. Who are excluded from this otherwise plural noun? Who are restrictively included in this pronoun?

The object pronoun does not refer to bachelor adult people. It does not include all the people. It refers only to parents mohers and fathers, individually and collectively.

It is possessive phrase. Who are included in this plural noun and excluded from it for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?

You have not understood as to what this plural refers to and which situation it does not link to. There are other words to refer to children but the choice is this broken plural feminine noun. It cannot individually refer to a solitary son. It also cannot be referred when talking about dual progenies.

The superb choice of this broken paucity plural feminine noun reflects the beauty of succinctness in the Qur'aan. Feminine singular and plural pronouns of subsequent Verbs in the text could refer back to it, affording economy. The hidden subject of a singular masculine verb or a singular masculine third person pronoun of a possessive phrase cannot be referent to this plural feminine noun. Another aspect of its choice is that it has in its ambit the children, the semi-adults and progenies of strengthen maturity.

Other words for children do not include all these categories of progenies.

huruf

Peace good logic,

I have tried explaining the issue as clearly as possible, so I don't know how to explain it further. The issue is not whether it is God's or Muhammad's. The issue is consistency of person in the same sentence. The narration starts in first person and then jumps to third person in same sentence.

Thank you for your understanding which makes sense if the original Arabic actually says what you are interpreting. I am not a linguistic expert and I'm still not clear on this.

Does "ahsana ma unzila ilaykum" mean "the best OF what has been sent down to you"?
OR does it mean "the best THAT has been sent down to you" as you are implying?

It is about 50/50 for both translations from traditional translators.

Input from a classical Arabic linguistic and grammar expert will be appreciated.

What about 3918?

3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best OF it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.

Almost every translator translates it as "the best OF it" which leads to the same issues I pointed out in my previous post, i.e.

"This implies that God does not want us to follow ALL that is being said from God but only the best, which implies that some of what God said is not the best and should not be followed! God is perhaps not confident about all of what God said?????? Is this God really the infinite Creator whose EVERY inspiration is perfection and the best??????

Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you and reward you for all your good works.

What does one look for in a divine revelation?

Bd things or good things?

Obviously good things. If it is bad things obviously the person looking at it is not looking for enlightment but for other things.

So if we get in that revelation something that may be translated as those things said previously, what do you understand?

Obviously if it is all good, that we should follow everything, and if we are told to follow the best, what do we understand?

What I think would be logical and sensible and in agreement with normal human intelligency would be that in the situation we may be or for the circumstance we are dealing with, we should the best counsel of the many counsel that we are given. We should look for the most appropriate to the particular case.

Obviously we ar enot being told to pick four best things and discard the rest.

That idea can only come to people when they split hairs and want to win an argument. It does not cocur to anybody who is thinking straight in the same way that if we go to a lawyer, and honest lawyer he will pick the best resource within the law system or judicial system to further our interests. It does not mean that that lawyer will pick one law which he will aply and discard the rest.

Salaam

good_logic

Peace huruf.

Thank you for your post. You do make a lot of sense.

Do you feel , like I do, that sometimes we are talking to walls / whistling in the wind...? I hope not, I have hope for those that really want to better their lives.

Sometimes I come to this site to just browse and read some excellent posts from different members and enjoy the moment.

I congratulate all those sincere members who just want to make this world a better place and have given up their time and made a lot of effort to write such good and sensible posts. Thank you for helping.

Well done to you all. Keep up the good work.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Noon_waalqalami

I had asked
The object pronoun does not refer to bachelor adult people. It does not include all the people. It refers only to parents mohers and fathers, individually and collectively.

That's stating the obvious, of course address is to parents.

Quote
It is possessive phrase. Who are included in this plural noun and excluded from it for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?

You have not understood as to what this plural refers to and which situation it does not link to. There are other words to refer to children but the choice is this broken plural feminine noun. It cannot individually refer to a solitary son. It also cannot be referred when talking about dual progenies].

Perhaps cross-reference occurrences of same word see it cannot exclude solitary son and dual children.

2233 and the mothers breastfeed they awldahunna/offspring theirs (except solitary son and dual children according to Mazhar they are excluded)

6151 ? and with the parents dual kindness of and not thou slay ye of offspring yours (except solitary son and dual children according to Mazhar they are excluded) from pauperism

6415 only wealth yours and offspring yours (except if solitary son and dual children according to Mazhar they are excluded) fit'natun/trial

Mazhar

That's stating the obvious, of course address is to parents.

Perhaps cross-reference occurrences of same word see it cannot exclude solitary son and dual children.

2233 and the mothers breastfeed they awldahunna/offspring theirs (except solitary son and dual children according to Mazhar they are excluded)

6151 ? and with the parents dual kindness of and not thou slay ye of offspring yours (except solitary son and dual children according to Mazhar they are excluded) from pauperism

6415 only wealth yours and offspring yours (except if solitary son and dual children according to Mazhar they are excluded) fit'natun/trial

Dear Noon,

So you do not know and also wish not to know as to what is a broken plural in Arabic.

Please find a little time to read some English grammar book, if you wish not to read Arabic grammar to know that a plural noun has inclusions and exclusions when used with different collocates. When you question a person on first meeting and enquire

Q Have you children?
A. Yes, I have a son.

Plural noun while refers simply to a collection of individuals in a positive, non-interrogative context, it can in interrogative refer to groups of individuals as well as to singular individuals.

Your quoting of other occurrences revealed that you have not at all perceived what I had said.

You read a word and focussed upon it ignoring what is said about it. You did not read "for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?"

The subject noun of this verb refers to Aulaad.

The signular feminine subject noun of this singular verb is hidden and it also refers to Aulaad.

But the hidden masculine verb in a singular verb will NOT refer to it.

Similarly masculine plural noun or pronoun will not be referent for Aulaad.

Mazhar

Dear Noon,

It is Prepositional phrase clubbed with Possessive Phrase. Possessive Pronoun is third person, singular, masculine.

I need not tell you that a pronoun is used only when its referent has already been mentioned. Who is this fellow for whose parents something is being reserved?

Noon_waalqalami

Dear Mazhar -- can you please clearly answer yes or no?

2233 and the mothers breastfeed they offspring theirs

Does above exclude solitary son and dual children according to you?

6151 ? and not thou slay ye of offspring yours

Does above exclude solitary son and dual children according to you?

Mazhar

Dear Mazhar -- can you please clearly answer yes or no?

2233 and the mothers breastfeed they offspring theirs

Does above exclude solitary son and dual children according to you?

6151 ? and not thou slay ye of offspring yours

Does above exclude solitary son and dual children according to you?

Dear Noon,

You are naively ignoring the point I am asking you to look into. If you wish to mention a son with reference to this plural noun you cannot do it. Pay a little attention which I previously highlighted with red colour ""for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?"

In the sentence the doers are plural and progenies is plural; individually a parent may have a single son, in the collective sentence it is included. But if you wish to link back a son to plural feminine noun, you cant do it.

When I say a singular son, or dual are not included in the broken plural, it means as referent, they as subject or object of a possessive phrase cannot link back to it. Only singular and plural feminine pronouns of subjects of a verb will link to it.

We cannot understand-perceive what is stated in Arabic text without knowing the linkages and relationship of words.

Noon_waalqalami

Dear Mazhar,

Why contradict yourself avoid simple Yes/No questions? It's OK to say you erred and changed your mind.

You wrote this

A. First four sentences of Ayah 411 deal with inheritance in case of death of Parents to progenies

We agree address is obviously to parents concerning their children.

411 ykumu/instructs you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)

You also wrote this

It is possessive phrase. ...
There are other words to refer to children but the choice is this broken plural feminine noun. It cannot individually refer to a solitary son. It also cannot be referred when talking about dual progenies.

http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=9829

Please use common sense answer Yes/No -- can a solitary son and dual children be excluded in verses below?

2233 .... and if aradttum/want you (2nd person masculine plural verb) that another breastfeed they of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)

6151... and with the parents dual kindness of and not thou slay ye of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) from pauperism

603 never tanfaakum/benefit you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) armukum/relatives yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) and not awldukum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) day the resurrection ...

6414 O you the ones believe ye of surely from azwjikum/spouses yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) wa-awldikum/and offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) enemy of for you

6415 only amwlukum/wealth yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) wa-awldukum/and offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) fit'natun/trial

Mazhar

Dear Noon,

So you do not know and also wish not to know as to what is a broken plural in Arabic.

Please find a little time to read some English grammar book, if you wish not to read Arabic grammar to know that a plural noun has inclusions and exclusions when used with different collocates. When you question a person on first meeting and enquire

Q Have you children?
A. Yes, I have a son.

Plural noun while refers simply to a collection of individuals in a positive, non-interrogative context, it can in interrogative refer to groups of individuals as well as to singular individuals.

Your quoting of other occurrences revealed that you have not at all perceived what I had said.

You read a word and focussed upon it ignoring what is said about it. You did not read "for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?"

The subject noun of this verb refers to Aulaad.

The signular feminine subject noun of this singular verb is hidden and it also refers to Aulaad.

But the hidden masculine verb in a singular verb will NOT refer to it.

Similarly masculine plural noun or pronoun will not be referent for Aulaad.

Noon,

You are understanding what is terribly wrong with your position. Simply tell about these sentences that who are the subjects of these verbs. Subject must be present either after the verb or before the verb.

FreedomStands

Good post, so many are misquoting and stuff here and disregarding grammar and everything.

Noon_waalqalami

Noon,

You are understanding what is terribly wrong with your position. Simply tell about these sentences that who are the subjects of these verbs. Subject must be present either after the verb or before the verb.

Mazhar,

We'll keep it simple address is to parents concerning their children...

Dear Mazhar,

Why contradict yourself avoid simple Yes/No questions? It's OK to say you erred and changed your mind.

You wrote this
We agree address is obviously to parents concerning their children.

411 ykumu/instructs you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)

You also wrote this
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=9829

Please use common sense answer Yes/No -- can a solitary son and dual children be excluded in verses below?

2233 .... and if aradttum/want you (2nd person masculine plural verb) that another breastfeed they of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)

6151... and with the parents dual kindness of and not thou slay ye of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) from pauperism

603 never tanfaakum/benefit you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) armukum/relatives yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) and not awldukum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) day the resurrection ...

6414 O you the ones believe ye of surely from azwjikum/spouses yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) wa-awldikum/and offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) enemy of for you

6415 only amwlukum/wealth yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) wa-awldukum/and offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) fit'natun/trial

Now your turn for the Nth time -- does above exclude a solitary son and dual children, Yes/No?

Good post, so many are misquoting and stuff here and disregarding grammar and everything.

Peace, perhaps remind us when exactly were grammar rules written and are they always Qur'an?

Arabic-English Lexicon
by Edward William Lane
(London Willams & Norgate 1863)

Mazhar

Please use common sense answer Yes/No -- can a solitary son and dual children be excluded in verses below?

2233 .... and if aradttum/want you (2nd person masculine plural verb) that another breastfeed they of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)

I have areadly told you that plural nouns include individual unit while referring to collective group. So is in English in certain contects.

In English you can say "If a son were your offspring-----" this is correct because offspring is also singular.

But the same thing you can not say by using ; "If a son was ". Neither can you use this word in a sentence like saying "If was a son". But in English you can say this "If your offspring was a son---". Here the offspring again stands both for a singular and plural.

You are purposly restricting yourself to the meanings of this word, but you are not trying to listen as to how languages work to communicate the intent by using a particular word.

Noon, why are you overlooking this again

You read a word and focussed upon it ignoring what is said about it. You did not read "for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?" The subject noun of this verb refers to Aulaad.

The signular feminine subject noun of this singular verb is hidden and it also refers to Aulaad.

But the hidden masculine verb in a singular verb will NOT refer to it.

Similarly masculine plural noun or pronoun will not be referent for Aulaad.

Mazhar

Dear Noon,

The point that you are not comprehending about use of broken plurals and plural nouns and pronouns as to when they can refer to a single unit of individuals denoted by those nouns/pronouns; let me try by using your calculations methodolgy.

A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind

Father and mother;
Son;
Husband;
Brother;
Outstanding liability to a bank of $ 50,000/

Please distribute it by referring to specific provision given in Qur'aan.

huruf

In kaanat wahidatan obviously is referring to the one that is wahidatan, it is not referring to anybody else, but it is still part of the instructions about auladikum. We are not being told that the subject about what the adressees are being instructed has changed.

Salaam

Mazhar

In kaanat wahidatan obviously is referring to the one that is wahidatan, it is not referring to anybody else, but it is still part of the instructions about auladikum. We are not being told that the subject about what the adressees are being instructed has changed.

Salaam

It is said that a person who does not know about case endings he knows nothing about Arabic. The noun is in accusative case. It is the predicate of deficient verb NOT the subject noun. The feminine subject noun refers auladikum.

huruf

Of course wahidatann is accusative, the verb itslef contains the in its form. No confusion and no complication. It is feminine singular. IIgt is exactly like in Spanish.

Os instruimos en cuanto a vuestros hijos, ...... Y si hay una... Biog problem.

Tell me Mazhar in 4.35 where are in the preceeding sentences the dual pronouns or persons that precede the dual conjugation and pronouns in that aya and the singular.

They are nowhere.

No, we do not fall for it.

Salaam

Mazhar

Of course wahidatann is accusative, the verb itslef contains the in its form. No confusion and no complication. It is feminine singular. IIgt is exactly like in Spanish.

Os instruimos en cuanto a vuestros hijos, ...... Y si hay una... Biog problem.

Tell me Mazhar in 4.35 where are in the preceeding sentences the dual pronouns or persons that precede the dual conjugation and pronouns in that aya and the singular.

They are nowhere.

No, we do not fall for it.

Salaam

The dual pronoun refers back to the certain husband and wife in the preceding discourse who has done this
And you the husbands strike transit them wives out of the bedrooms open in house rendering the suspended matrimonial relation apparent to entire family.

It is naive on your part that a pronoun can exist in a discourse whose referent noun is not mentioned earlier. The definition of pronoun, you need to read, see what it means and how is used in Spanish.

huruf

Of course if you invent somethying that is hot said in 4.34, you can do anything out of grammar, but in that case not only you, anybody can, nun de plume and even Chrarlie.

Are ar eno husbands and wives in 4.34. None no subject of dual there. If you can find such a thing in 4.34. We can find anything anywhere in the Qur'an. And that Mazhar says it does not work as a proof.

Salaam

Noon_waalqalami

I have areadly told you that plural nouns include individual unit while referring to collective group. So is in English in certain contects.

In English you can say "If a son were your offspring-----" this is correct because offspring is also singular.

But the same thing you can not say by using ; "If a son was ". Neither can you use this word in a sentence like saying "If was a son". But in English you can say this "If your offspring was a son---". Here the offspring again stands both for a singular and plural.

You are purposly restricting yourself to the meanings of this word, but you are not trying to listen as to how languages work to communicate the intent by using a particular word.

Noon, why are you overlooking this again

Mazhar, you are confusing yourself with English grammar ignoring simple logic refuse to answer simple question -- are solitary son and/or dual children excluded in the verses posted Yes/No?

Illogical to say

Another can suckle "your children" solitary son/dual children excluded!
Never benefit you "your children" solitary son/dual children excluded!

411 yskumu/instructs you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)

2233 .... and if aradttum/want you (2nd person masculine plural verb) that another breastfeed they of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)

603 never tanfaakum/benefit you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) relatives yours and not awldukum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) day the resurrection ...

Dear Noon,

The point that you are not comprehending about use of broken plurals and plural nouns and pronouns as to when they can refer to a single unit of individuals denoted by those nouns/pronouns; let me try by using your calculations methodolgy.

A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind

Father and mother;
Son;
Husband;
Brother;
Outstanding liability to a bank of $ 50,000/

Please distribute it by referring to specific provision given in Qur'aan.

That's easy one and you are behind; please distribute requested of you twice earlier...

Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 025131 AM
It is plural and is NOMINATIVE. It is the subject noun of deficient perfect verb "Kana", and is about its fronted predicate. It means "However, if brothers and sisters of the deceased also existed, thereby, the One Sixth shall be the share apportioned for his Mother."

Dear Mazhar, since you posted above and understand legal parlance.

Allocate assets tell which verses you're applying; takes few minutes?

mother 1 sister
mother 2 sisters
mother 3 sisters

mother 1 brother 1 sister
mother 1 brother 2 sisters
mother 1 brother 3 sisters

In kaanat wahidatan obviously is referring to the one that is wahidatan, it is not referring to anybody else, but it is still part of the instructions about auladikum. We are not being told that the subject about what the adressees are being instructed has changed.

Yes and where are instructions for exactly two females/daughters?
Likewise where exactly are the instructions for 3+ female/sisters?

The answer to above questions is key to solving inheritance issue.

Of course if you invent somethying that is hot said in 4.34, you can do anything out of grammar, but in that case not only you, anybody can, nun de plume and even Chrarlie.

Are ar eno husbands and wives in 4.34. None no subject of dual there. If you can find such a thing in 4.34. We can find anything anywhere in the Qur'an. And that Mazhar says it does not work as a proof.

Salaam

Looking at 434 in context obviously about finances and considering "strikes ye them" from financial means/inheritance...

433 and to each made we heirs from what left the parents and the close relatives and the ones pledged right hands yours so give ye them share theirs surely the god be on each thing witness of

434 the menfolk maintaining over the womenfolk in what favor the god some them over others and in what spend they of from wealth theirs so the righteous (f/p) obedient (f/p) guardians (f/p) to the unseen in what safeguarded the god and the ones whom (f/p) thou fearing recalcitrant theirs (f/p) so admonish ye them (f/p) and leaves ye them (f/p) in the rest place wa-iaribuhunna/and strikes ye them (f/p) so if obey you so not seek ye of over them (f/p) way of surely the god be height of immense

Peace