Inheritance according to Qur?an
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Dear Mazhar -- can you please clearly answer yes or no?
2233 and the mothers breastfeed they offspring theirs
Does above exclude solitary son and dual children according to you?
6151 ? and not thou slay ye of offspring yours
Does above exclude solitary son and dual children according to you?
Dear Noon,
You are naively ignoring the point I am asking you to look into. If you wish to mention a son with reference to this plural noun you cannot do it. Pay a little attention which I previously highlighted with red colour ""for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?"
In the sentence the doers are plural and progenies is plural; individually a parent may have a single son, in the collective sentence it is included. But if you wish to link back a son to plural feminine noun, you cant do it.
When I say a singular son, or dual are not included in the broken plural, it means as referent, they as subject or object of a possessive phrase cannot link back to it. Only singular and plural feminine pronouns of subjects of a verb will link to it.
We cannot understand-perceive what is stated in Arabic text without knowing the linkages and relationship of words.
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Dear Mazhar,
Why contradict yourself avoid simple Yes/No questions? It's OK to say you erred and changed your mind.
You wrote this
A. First four sentences of Ayah 411 deal with inheritance in case of death of Parents to progenies
We agree address is obviously to parents concerning their children.
411 ykumu/instructs you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)
You also wrote this
It is possessive phrase. ...
There are other words to refer to children but the choice is this broken plural feminine noun. It cannot individually refer to a solitary son. It also cannot be referred when talking about dual progenies.http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=9829
Please use common sense answer Yes/No -- can a solitary son and dual children be excluded in verses below?
2233 .... and if aradttum/want you (2nd person masculine plural verb) that another breastfeed they of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)
6151... and with the parents dual kindness of and not thou slay ye of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) from pauperism
603 never tanfaakum/benefit you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) armukum/relatives yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) and not awldukum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) day the resurrection ...
6414 O you the ones believe ye of surely from azwjikum/spouses yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) wa-awldikum/and offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) enemy of for you
6415 only amwlukum/wealth yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) wa-awldukum/and offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) fit'natun/trial
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Dear Noon,
So you do not know and also wish not to know as to what is a broken plural in Arabic.
Please find a little time to read some English grammar book, if you wish not to read Arabic grammar to know that a plural noun has inclusions and exclusions when used with different collocates. When you question a person on first meeting and enquire
Q Have you children?
A. Yes, I have a son.Plural noun while refers simply to a collection of individuals in a positive, non-interrogative context, it can in interrogative refer to groups of individuals as well as to singular individuals.
Your quoting of other occurrences revealed that you have not at all perceived what I had said.
You read a word and focussed upon it ignoring what is said about it. You did not read "for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?"
The subject noun of this verb refers to Aulaad.
The signular feminine subject noun of this singular verb is hidden and it also refers to Aulaad.
But the hidden masculine verb in a singular verb will NOT refer to it.
Similarly masculine plural noun or pronoun will not be referent for Aulaad.
Noon,
You are understanding what is terribly wrong with your position. Simply tell about these sentences that who are the subjects of these verbs. Subject must be present either after the verb or before the verb.
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Good post, so many are misquoting and stuff here and disregarding grammar and everything.
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Noon,
You are understanding what is terribly wrong with your position. Simply tell about these sentences that who are the subjects of these verbs. Subject must be present either after the verb or before the verb.
Mazhar,
We'll keep it simple address is to parents concerning their children...
Dear Mazhar,
Why contradict yourself avoid simple Yes/No questions? It's OK to say you erred and changed your mind.
You wrote this
We agree address is obviously to parents concerning their children.411 ykumu/instructs you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)
You also wrote this
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=9829Please use common sense answer Yes/No -- can a solitary son and dual children be excluded in verses below?
2233 .... and if aradttum/want you (2nd person masculine plural verb) that another breastfeed they of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)
6151... and with the parents dual kindness of and not thou slay ye of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) from pauperism
603 never tanfaakum/benefit you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) armukum/relatives yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) and not awldukum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) day the resurrection ...
6414 O you the ones believe ye of surely from azwjikum/spouses yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) wa-awldikum/and offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) enemy of for you
6415 only amwlukum/wealth yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) wa-awldukum/and offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) fit'natun/trial
Now your turn for the Nth time -- does above exclude a solitary son and dual children, Yes/No?
Good post, so many are misquoting and stuff here and disregarding grammar and everything.
Peace, perhaps remind us when exactly were grammar rules written and are they always Qur'an?
Arabic-English Lexicon
by Edward William Lane
(London Willams & Norgate 1863) -
Please use common sense answer Yes/No -- can a solitary son and dual children be excluded in verses below?
2233 .... and if aradttum/want you (2nd person masculine plural verb) that another breastfeed they of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)
I have areadly told you that plural nouns include individual unit while referring to collective group. So is in English in certain contects.
In English you can say "If a son were your offspring-----" this is correct because offspring is also singular.
But the same thing you can not say by using ; "If a son was ". Neither can you use this word in a sentence like saying "If was a son". But in English you can say this "If your offspring was a son---". Here the offspring again stands both for a singular and plural.
You are purposly restricting yourself to the meanings of this word, but you are not trying to listen as to how languages work to communicate the intent by using a particular word.
Noon, why are you overlooking this again
You read a word and focussed upon it ignoring what is said about it. You did not read "for the purposes of making it a referent in subsequent verbs?" The subject noun of this verb refers to Aulaad.
The signular feminine subject noun of this singular verb is hidden and it also refers to Aulaad.
But the hidden masculine verb in a singular verb will NOT refer to it.
Similarly masculine plural noun or pronoun will not be referent for Aulaad.
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Dear Noon,
The point that you are not comprehending about use of broken plurals and plural nouns and pronouns as to when they can refer to a single unit of individuals denoted by those nouns/pronouns; let me try by using your calculations methodolgy.
A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind
- Father and mother;
- Son;
- Husband;
- Brother;
- Outstanding liability to a bank of $ 50,000/
Please distribute it by referring to specific provision given in Qur'aan.
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In kaanat wahidatan obviously is referring to the one that is wahidatan, it is not referring to anybody else, but it is still part of the instructions about auladikum. We are not being told that the subject about what the adressees are being instructed has changed.
Salaam
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In kaanat wahidatan obviously is referring to the one that is wahidatan, it is not referring to anybody else, but it is still part of the instructions about auladikum. We are not being told that the subject about what the adressees are being instructed has changed.
Salaam
It is said that a person who does not know about case endings he knows nothing about Arabic. The noun is in accusative case. It is the predicate of deficient verb NOT the subject noun. The feminine subject noun refers auladikum.
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Of course wahidatann is accusative, the verb itslef contains the in its form. No confusion and no complication. It is feminine singular. IIgt is exactly like in Spanish.
Os instruimos en cuanto a vuestros hijos, ...... Y si hay una... Biog problem.
Tell me Mazhar in 4.35 where are in the preceeding sentences the dual pronouns or persons that precede the dual conjugation and pronouns in that aya and the singular.
They are nowhere.
No, we do not fall for it.
Salaam
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Of course wahidatann is accusative, the verb itslef contains the in its form. No confusion and no complication. It is feminine singular. IIgt is exactly like in Spanish.
Os instruimos en cuanto a vuestros hijos, ...... Y si hay una... Biog problem.
Tell me Mazhar in 4.35 where are in the preceeding sentences the dual pronouns or persons that precede the dual conjugation and pronouns in that aya and the singular.
They are nowhere.
No, we do not fall for it.
Salaam
The dual pronoun refers back to the certain husband and wife in the preceding discourse who has done this
And you the husbands strike transit them wives out of the bedrooms open in house rendering the suspended matrimonial relation apparent to entire family.It is naive on your part that a pronoun can exist in a discourse whose referent noun is not mentioned earlier. The definition of pronoun, you need to read, see what it means and how is used in Spanish.
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Of course if you invent somethying that is hot said in 4.34, you can do anything out of grammar, but in that case not only you, anybody can, nun de plume and even Chrarlie.
Are ar eno husbands and wives in 4.34. None no subject of dual there. If you can find such a thing in 4.34. We can find anything anywhere in the Qur'an. And that Mazhar says it does not work as a proof.
Salaam
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I have areadly told you that plural nouns include individual unit while referring to collective group. So is in English in certain contects.
In English you can say "If a son were your offspring-----" this is correct because offspring is also singular.
But the same thing you can not say by using ; "If a son was ". Neither can you use this word in a sentence like saying "If was a son". But in English you can say this "If your offspring was a son---". Here the offspring again stands both for a singular and plural.
You are purposly restricting yourself to the meanings of this word, but you are not trying to listen as to how languages work to communicate the intent by using a particular word.
Noon, why are you overlooking this again
Mazhar, you are confusing yourself with English grammar ignoring simple logic refuse to answer simple question -- are solitary son and/or dual children excluded in the verses posted Yes/No?
Illogical to say
Another can suckle "your children" solitary son/dual children excluded!
Never benefit you "your children" solitary son/dual children excluded!411 yskumu/instructs you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)
2233 .... and if aradttum/want you (2nd person masculine plural verb) that another breastfeed they of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)
603 never tanfaakum/benefit you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) relatives yours and not awldukum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) day the resurrection ...
Dear Noon,
The point that you are not comprehending about use of broken plurals and plural nouns and pronouns as to when they can refer to a single unit of individuals denoted by those nouns/pronouns; let me try by using your calculations methodolgy.
A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind
- Father and mother;
- Son;
- Husband;
- Brother;
- Outstanding liability to a bank of $ 50,000/
Please distribute it by referring to specific provision given in Qur'aan.
That's easy one and you are behind; please distribute requested of you twice earlier...
Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 025131 AM
It is plural and is NOMINATIVE. It is the subject noun of deficient perfect verb "Kana", and is about its fronted predicate. It means "However, if brothers and sisters of the deceased also existed, thereby, the One Sixth shall be the share apportioned for his Mother."Dear Mazhar, since you posted above and understand legal parlance.
Allocate assets tell which verses you're applying; takes few minutes?
mother 1 sister
mother 2 sisters
mother 3 sistersmother 1 brother 1 sister
mother 1 brother 2 sisters
mother 1 brother 3 sistersIn kaanat wahidatan obviously is referring to the one that is wahidatan, it is not referring to anybody else, but it is still part of the instructions about auladikum. We are not being told that the subject about what the adressees are being instructed has changed.
Yes and where are instructions for exactly two females/daughters?
Likewise where exactly are the instructions for 3+ female/sisters?The answer to above questions is key to solving inheritance issue.
Of course if you invent somethying that is hot said in 4.34, you can do anything out of grammar, but in that case not only you, anybody can, nun de plume and even Chrarlie.
Are ar eno husbands and wives in 4.34. None no subject of dual there. If you can find such a thing in 4.34. We can find anything anywhere in the Qur'an. And that Mazhar says it does not work as a proof.
Salaam
Looking at 434 in context obviously about finances and considering "strikes ye them" from financial means/inheritance...
433 and to each made we heirs from what left the parents and the close relatives and the ones pledged right hands yours so give ye them share theirs surely the god be on each thing witness of
434 the menfolk maintaining over the womenfolk in what favor the god some them over others and in what spend they of from wealth theirs so the righteous (f/p) obedient (f/p) guardians (f/p) to the unseen in what safeguarded the god and the ones whom (f/p) thou fearing recalcitrant theirs (f/p) so admonish ye them (f/p) and leaves ye them (f/p) in the rest place wa-iaribuhunna/and strikes ye them (f/p) so if obey you so not seek ye of over them (f/p) way of surely the god be height of immense
Peace
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Dear Noon,
The point that you are not comprehending about use of broken plurals and plural nouns and pronouns as to when they can refer to a single unit of individuals denoted by those nouns/pronouns; let me try by using your calculations methodolgy.
A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind
- Father and mother;
- Son;
- Husband;
- Brother;
- Outstanding liability to a bank of $ 50,000/
Please distribute it by referring to specific provision given in Qur'aan.
Please allocate according to your logic.
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All womenfolk are not inheritors of all mensfolk, and the opposito is also true. 3.34 does not say anything about inheritance. The subject has changed and inheritance is not touched in the aya nor in the subsequent ones. And it is only partially about finances, it is about finances in so far as it makes incumbent on males to support and stand by women, inheritors or not or to be inherited or not. It is general rule. aTa3 is not necessarily obey, but its range of meanin is wider, it may mepan pay atention, take into acount, or pay heed. Since no order os given no obedience or lack of it can ensue, but rather pay heed.
Pay lso heed to 4.128 as to what nushuz means or does not mean.
Pay also heed to the addresee of 4.34. It is the believers sin general are they being instrcted, women included to disinherit their womenfolk. That way of putting it is very strange compared to other expressions used to speak about inheritance and legacies.
Salaam
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Please allocate according to your logic.
8,333.33 1/6 mother
8,333.33 1/6 father
12,500.00 1/4 husband
20,833.33 5/12 remainder to son50,000.00 total (brother = 0; not kalala case)
Now your turn which you avoided answering half dozen times...
are solitary son and/or dual children excluded in the verses posted Yes/No?
Illogical to say
Another can suckle "your children" solitary son/dual children excluded!
Never benefit you "your children" solitary son/dual children excluded!411 yskumu/instructs you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)
2233 .... and if aradttum/want you (2nd person masculine plural verb) that another breastfeed they of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)
603 never tanfaakum/benefit you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) relatives yours and not awldukum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) day the resurrection ...
That's easy one and you are behind; please distribute requested of you twice earlier...
Dear Mazhar, since you posted above and understand legal parlance.
Allocate assets tell which verses you're applying; takes few minutes?
mother 1 sister
mother 2 sisters
mother 3 sistersmother 1 brother 1 sister
mother 1 brother 2 sisters
mother 1 brother 3 sisters -
Dear Noon,
The point that you are not comprehending about use of broken plurals and plural nouns and pronouns as to when they can refer to a single unit of individuals denoted by those nouns/pronouns; let me try by using your calculations methodolgy.
A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind
- Father and mother;
- Son;
- Husband;
- Brother;
- Outstanding liability to a bank of $ 50,000/
Please distribute it by referring to specific provision given in Qur'aan.
Outstanding liability is of dead woman. It is not amount of wealth she left.
Please quote sentence of ayah while giving shares. -
Outstanding liability is of dead woman. It is not amount of wealth she left.
Please quote sentence of ayah while giving shares.OK now we understand you don't answer questions posted to you instead flood topic with perpetual questions including how to distribute liability NOT wealth in a thread on distributing inheritance?
?He captured ten of the Gymnosophists i.e. "naked philosophers" who had done most to get Sabbas to revolt, and had made the most trouble for the Macedonians. These philosophers were reputed to be clever and concise in answering questions, and Alexander therefore put difficult questions to them, declaring that he would put to death him who first made an incorrect answer.? There being ten gymnosophists, each was asked one question. Which, the fifth one was asked, is older, day or night. ?Day, by one day?, came back the answer; ?upon the king expressing amazement?, Plutarch writes, the sadhu added ?hard questions must have hard answers."
Likewise to quote my differential equations professor
?If one never asks dumb questions they?ll never get over being dumb!?
No more comments!
Peace and goodbye!
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Dear Noon.
I am feelingb now you have clearly realized the erroneousness of your thread. You know it is not from Qur'aan but from your own imagintion. You allocate whatever you want to allocate and make it one.
All cases are covered in just six combinations and I mentioned it in a post.
My last question you are avoiding.
Answer that as you have been answering by writing the sentence of the Ayah.
A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind
- Father and mother;
- Son;
- Husband;
- Brother;
- Outstanding liability to a bank of $ 50,000/
Please distribute it by referring to specific provision given in Qur'aan.
Outstanding liability is of dead woman. It is not amount of wealth she left.
Please quote sentence of ayah while giving shares. -
Dear Noon.
I am feelingb now you have clearly realized the erroneousness of your thread. You know it is not from Qur'aan but from your own imagintion. You allocate whatever you want to allocate and make it one.
All cases are covered in just six combinations and I mentioned it in a post.
My last question you are avoiding.
Answer that as you have been answering by writing the sentence of the Ayah.
A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind
- Father and mother;
- Son;
- Husband;
- Brother;
- Outstanding liability to a bank of $ 50,000/
Please distribute it by referring to specific provision given in Qur'aan.
Outstanding liability is of dead woman. It is not amount of wealth she left.
Please quote sentence of ayah while giving shares.Dear Mazhar, you're wired different "missing" basic logic functions evident by above absurd question missing basic information.
Wealth = Assets - Liabilities
If you have information want to contribute since people all over the world may read this forum/thread then be honest answer questions posted to you with verse numbers and likewise answer your own examples to support your opinion not act like a pompous intellectual who diverts, avoids, posting perpetual questions as numerologists, missionary trolls, and hearsay followers that frequent this forum.
Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 025131 AM
It is plural and is NOMINATIVE. It is the subject noun of deficient perfect verb "Kana", and is about its fronted predicate. It means "However, if brothers and sisters of the deceased also existed, thereby, the One Sixth shall be the share apportioned for his Mother."Dear Mazhar, since you posted above and understand legal parlance.
Allocate assets tell which verses you're applying; takes few minutes?
mother 1 sister
mother 2 sisters
mother 3 sistersmother 1 brother 1 sister
mother 1 brother 2 sisters
mother 1 brother 3 sistersNo answer from Mazhar!
Where you get exactly two daughters get 2/3?
411 ? fawqa/above two (f) so for them (f/p) third dual (2/3)
fawqa/above/greater than > two cannot be equal and above => two!
618 ... fawqa/above servants his NOT equal and above => servants his!
No answer from Mazhar!
Now please answer questions without perpetual questions, did you not write this?
Which I asked you to allocate assets tell which verses you are applying?
No answer from Mazhar!
Dear Mazhar -- can you please clearly answer yes or no?
Does above exclude solitary son and dual children according to you?No answer from Mazhar!
Dear Mazhar,
Why contradict yourself avoid simple Yes/No questions? It's OK to say you erred and changed your mind.
...
You also wrote this
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=9829Please use common sense answer Yes/No -- can a solitary son and dual children be excluded in verses below?
No answer from Mazhar!
Mazhar,
We'll keep it simple address is to parents concerning their children...
Now your turn for the Nth time -- does above exclude a solitary son and dual children, Yes/No?
No answer from Mazhar!
Mazhar, you are confusing yourself with English grammar ignoring simple logic refuse to answer simple question -- are solitary son and/or dual children excluded in the verses posted Yes/No?
Illogical to say
Another can suckle "your children" solitary son/dual children excluded!
Never benefit you "your children" solitary son/dual children excluded!411 yskumu/instructs you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)
2233 .... and if aradttum/want you (2nd person masculine plural verb) that another breastfeed they of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)
603 never tanfaakum/benefit you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) relatives yours and not awldukum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) day the resurrection ...
That's easy one and you are behind; please distribute requested of you twice earlier...
Dear Mazhar, since you posted above and understand legal parlance.
Allocate assets tell which verses you're applying; takes few minutes?
mother 1 sister
mother 2 sisters
mother 3 sistersmother 1 brother 1 sister
mother 1 brother 2 sisters
mother 1 brother 3 sistersNo answer from Mazhar!
Now your turn which you avoided answering half dozen times...
No answer from Mazhar!
Peace!