The Quran objectifies women
-
Sorry double posts.
-
I think you copied it twice.
-
It needed some investigation. The so-called initials of Quran helped me. They are meant to be as a help in interpretation and for someone observant to get their eyes up that they were implemented as a guide in understanding the Arabic in Quran.
Check chapter 38 and 68 and ponder upon why the initials there begin with a single letter and then continuing with a conjunction (wa). If you cannot comprehend then I cannot help you I am afraid.
The very word Allah was also a great help since it was easy to comprehend that the word means " to thereby be" in Moses manner as in the Biblical Old Testament when God tells Moses to go to the 'Children of Israel' and "say that I AM has sent you".
Jesus continued elaboration on it when he said "I am in the Creator/Father and the Creator/Father is in me". Obviously the sectarians could not accept this claim even if he said that anyone could be like this.
Salaam
-
It needed some investigation. The so-called initials of Quran helped me. They are meant to be as a help in interpretation and for someone observant to get their eyes up that they were implemented as a guide in understanding the Arabic in Quran.
Check chapter 38 and 68 and ponder upon why the initials there begin with a single letter and then continuing with a conjunction (wa). If you cannot comprehend then I cannot help you I am afraid.
The very word Allah was also a great help since it was easy to comprehend that the word means " to thereby be" in Moses manner as in the Biblical Old Testament when God tells Moses to go to the 'Children of Israel' and "say that I AM has sent you".
Jesus continued elaboration on it when he said "I am in the Creator/Father and the Creator/Father is in me". Obviously the sectarians could not accept this claim even if he said that anyone could be like this.
Salaam
479
He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.Don't worry about my comprehension, why can't you tell me what you found its meaning to be?
Where did you find that A means such and such, L means such and such, L means such and such, A means such and such, H means such and such or J means such and such, N means such and such, and N means such and such?
Allah is a very ancient word in the Semitic language family, and the root 'L or 'LH (the ' is called a glottal stop and is the "uh" sound for alif) is connected to words meaning Beyond, Powerful, Ultimate , Worship worthy, and things like that.
What informed you that "A certainly means this" and "L certainly means this" and "together they mean this" and things like that?
-
(E)Lah is indeed an old word. Several thousand years old.
Like I said; I had to study the Arabic words and the letters' occurrences in words carefully and to work a way towards individual understanding regarding each of them, and understand what difference a change in the sequence of the letters does to the meaning of a word. I am in still in a learning stage, but I can still say that the method could render a word with nearly 100% in accuracy in interpretation.
I have defined all Arabic letters so far and I use the innate letter meaning in my research on every Arabic word. It is not always easy even with "answer keys". Arabic words are very "painting" in what they like to say, describing into every morpheme.Salaam
-
Hello Samira,
Thank you for your enlightening posts. I learn from you a lot. It's great to see someone of a similar mindset here
You are most welcome. The feeling is mutual. I appreciate your stimulating posts and have learned a lot from you as well
Thank you for drawing my attention to 314 and some other verses. It is extremely rare to come across someone who is intellectually honest and seeks the truth in an objective manner using their inner compass (3030), mind/reason (1611, 3942), and real world evidence (4153).
Please check out my following thread and let me know what you think about the points I raised. Your comments and input will be appreciated. Maybe you can compile all the various points you have raised there as well.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606464.0
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you.
-
Peace be upon all of you,
As Quran states man and woman are equal. Any understanding of verses in Quran that seem to disturb the balance between those two genders is a product of a failed understanding and should encourage to reexamine those verses.
bravo handshake
In addition to a failed understanding or misinterpretation, one should also keep one's mind open to the possibility that the underlying Arabic text of those verses could have been corrupted or tampered with as well.
I am eagerly awaiting the archeological discovery of the original Arabic text of al-quran that was channeled to Muhammad, so that we can compare it with the current quraanic text.
Even the current quraanic text allows for the possibility of tampering in some of its parts by saying that "al-zikr" (a subset of al-quran) has been protected from falsehood rather than "al-quran"
159 Indeed it is we who have sent down the reminder (al-zikr), and indeed it is we who will preserve it.
4141 Those who have rejected the reminder (al-zikr) when it came to them; and it is an honorable book.
4142 No falsehood could enter it, presently or afterwards; a revelation from one most wise, praiseworthy.The infinite Creator does not run out of words and could easily have said "al-quran" in these signs, instead of "al-zikr".
Using our inner compass (3030), mind/reason (1611, 3942), and real world evidence (4153), and being intellectually honest with ourselves, we should be able to figure out the protected "al-zikr" portion of "al-quran". Since "al-zikr" is protected and cannot be corrupted, it is the core message which contains everything necessary and sufficient for our guidance and spiritual progress on our journey back to the infinite Creator.
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you all.
-
I do not find any evidence in the text as something tampered with, and the objection zikr is merely an opinion, but there is nothing wrong with it nor any contradiction.
I have not yet found in the Qur'an something that smacks of tampering. But in readers or puported reaaders of the Qur'an I have indeed have found something that feels like wishful thinking that the Qur'an should have been tampered with.
Salaam
-
Peace be upon you all,
Using our inner compass (3030), mind/reason (1611, 3942), and real world evidence (4153), and being intellectually honest with ourselves, we should be able to figure out the protected "al-zikr" portion of "al-quran". Since "al-zikr" is protected and cannot be corrupted, it is the core message which contains everything necessary and sufficient for our guidance and spiritual progress on our journey back to the infinite Creator.
Upon further reflection I think I have an oops moment!
I have committed one of the most basic logical fallacies The fallacy of circular reasoning!
http//www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/67-circular-reasoning
"al-zikr is protected and cannot be corrupted", because 159, 4141-42 says so.
This is circular reasoning, thereby not evidence of al-zikr being protected.
For al-zikr to be considered protected and uncorrupted, it should be consistent with our inner compass/conscience, mind/reason, and real world evidence.
Apologies for the slip up.
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you all.
-
(E)Lah is indeed an old word. Several thousand years old.
Like I said; I had to study the Arabic words and the letters' occurrences in words carefully and to work a way towards individual understanding regarding each of them, and understand what difference a change in the sequence of the letters does to the meaning of a word. I am in still in a learning stage, but I can still say that the method could render a word with nearly 100% in accuracy in interpretation.
I have defined all Arabic letters so far and I use the innate letter meaning in my research on every Arabic word. It is not always easy even with "answer keys". Arabic words are very "painting" in what they like to say, describing into every morpheme.Salaam
Some letters do have meanings attached to them, for example in Greek, Alpha and Omega had meanings associated with them, which were not necessarily "First and Last" exactly, since Alpha was the letter which meant total negation and Omega had its own different meaning
1 A ? alpha, the first letter of the Greek alphabet. 1/a (alpha) is used as a prefix (called its "privative use" and typically means "no" or "not" (= "un-," "without".
Its the same as "Subhan" really, meaning The Nothing, the Unlike Anything, Non-Information.
(Its the letter "a" in Greek by the way, so not "Alpha" if you were feeling any urge to start adding A+L+P+H+A and whatever meanings you have associated to each of those letters, it is just "a"
Omega, which is just "o" in Greek (not O+M+E+G+A which is just an English transliteration for word referring to the single letter) seems to mean "Unbounded" and "Limitless" and "Infinite" or "Ongoing" or "Endless" or "Continuing Forever" and so "The Not That Is Forever" or "The Nothing that is Everlasting".
"5598 (long , originally formed by pronouncing two short o's/omikrons together, cf. Zodhiates, Dictionary) ? the final letter of the Greek alphabet; (figuratively) God's infinity (endlessness), in contrast to alpha ? the first letter of the Greek alphabet which represents the Lord as the unoriginated originator of all life and all that is eternal.
In the NT, 5598 ("mega" is always used of the glorified Christ (Rev 18, 21;6, 2213), referring to His absolute limitlessness to meet all the needs of finite (limited) people."
-
Then it says "Arch" and "Telos" which is often translated as "beginning" and "end" after it says Alpha and Omega.
Arch means Ruler and Foremost among other things
"746 arx ? properly, from the beginning (temporal sense), i.e. "the initial (starting) point"; (figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief (foremost), i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest ("preeminent"."
Telos means "final goal" "destination"
"5056 t?los (a neuter noun) ? properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.
"
So these are terms used repeatedly in the Qur'an as well.
-
I hope you or anyone liked those posts about the Alpha Omega Arche Telos thing. I didn't make up those etymologies I quoted.
-
Well people were confused about Jesus' assimilation and thought he implied that they were two or three separate entities while he said clearly he was in the Creator and the Creator was in him. They are not supposed to be separated. That does not mean God is Jesus but that Jesus was assimilated with God. This is what is hard for people to understand.
And Jesus also said that ANYONE could be like that if they followed the words of God. It did never imply some kind of son relationship. It is supposed to imply a Creator - Creation symbiotic relationship.
He must be one of the most misunderstood humans in history. It was this kind of claims that made the sects want to kill him. They thought Jesus blasphemed about God. They could not comprehend.
Salaam
-
Well people were confused about Jesus' assimilation and thought he implied that they were two or three separate entities while he said clearly he was in the Creator and the Creator was in him. They are not supposed to be separated. That does not mean God is Jesus but that Jesus was assimilated with God. This is what is hard for people to understand.
And Jesus also said that ANYONE could be like that if they followed the words of God. It did never imply some kind of son relationship. It is supposed to imply a Creator - Creation symbiotic relationship.
He must be one of the most misunderstood humans in history. It was this kind of claims that made the sects want to kill him. They thought Jesus blasphemed about God. They could not comprehend.
Salaam
Haha funny, because it seems to be what you misunderstand about what I am saying too. I am saying everyone and everything is already in that state where the "creator is in me and I in the creator" or whatever else, because Allah creates all the information and you are entirely "assimilated" your own will is the will of Allah as I have shown, and Allah "encompasses everything" and "is closer to you than your jugular vein" and "is not encompassed by any vision but grasps all vision", and is literally experiencing the information of "being you" but you can never experience what it is to "be God", you are nothing but information created by God every moment you exist, and God can destroy you just as God can destroy Jesus, both were just information, and behind them was nothing but God, and God is like nothing, not made of information, so can not be encompassed by any image or form or experience and so "returning to God" is "non-experience" or "death" or "Annihilation" of the information that is "you" or "being you", and Allah is literally the Compassionate, in that Allah literally experiences and encompasses all information, which includes the suffering he may create for you and within you which is information too, which is an ability you don't have (to experience what another person experiences)
5722
No evil befalls on the earth nor in your own souls, but it is in a book before We bring it into existence; surely that is easy to Allah5343
and that it is He alone who cause to laugh and to weep;7630
But you cannot will it unless God wills for, behold, God is indeed all-seeing, wise.8129
But you cannot will it unless God, the Lord of the Universe, so wills it.5016
We verily created man and We know what is whispered in his mind, and We are nearer to him than his jugular vein.4154
Oh, verily, they are in doubt as to whether they will meet their Sustainer ! Oh, verily, He encompasses everything! -
Quran 4913 group
"O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware."
-
So are you ever going to start preaching about the behavioral part of the faith or just remain like a typical cleric?
Okay that you spoke of this about how God works. Fine. But you need to put into it some efforts yourself. What are they?
Salaam
-
So are you ever going to start preaching about the behavioral part of the faith or just remain like a typical cleric?
Okay that you spoke of this about how God works. Fine. But you need to put into it some efforts yourself. What are they?
Salaam
The usual ones you know. Regularity in Worship for your own sake (performing the meditative exercise throughout the day to stay well aligned and at peace and focused and empowered), Being kind and charitable and self restrained when it comes to causing anxiety or suffering on anything including all the animals you call "soulless" (they are animated by Allah, as are you, nothing else is there to animate anything), Fasting at the prescribed time, making the pilgrimage if you are able.
In daily life, what you will find the most opportunity for, even on this website, is to be kind, make people laugh, be generous with your time and effort, be generous in general (do you see that I don't just say "shut up you're wrong" but actually go through and try to show you, even if I am wrong, even if I am stupid as a deformed donkey, I am still taking all this time and effort out of a hope to help you, I was trying to help you even when I was talking about proper etymology, I wrote such long things and found so much, this is a form of being generous and loving, even if you hate the stuff I am saying that you perceive as being dumb and wrong, and you may be right that I am indeed the great fool for thinking Allah alone is the only power who has power over everything, and wrong that Allah does not "share"(Shirk) in power with others, and that wrong that Allah doesn't have numerous other powers creating their thoughts and deeds and commanding Allah around, but then whatever follows after you and does your bidding as you create and demand and will what you want, is not what I'm referring to when I use the word Allah, but instead I worship only whatever is t he Absolute Ultimate, so the Absolute Ultimate, by definition would not even have those qualities, but would be as I describe, so even if the Qur'an said other than what I am saying, and the Bible and all the books of the past, I wouldn't follow them then or use them so extensively, because I believe only in the Ultimate, only in the God I am proposing, the one that has Absolute Power and Does what it wills and its will is whatever happens always and it would be over everything and is whatever is over everything in power encompassing all of it, so if you designate the term Allah to mean that which supports you as a foundation but follows after you as you freely will things and shares power with you, then that is not at all what I am referring to, nor do I believe you should worship any such thing (and apparently you don't even, so that is good).
So day to day, remain conscious of the Ultimate, particularly the one I speak of, the Absolute Power who is in control of every aspect of information, and strive as you can strive to be spared from the hell-fire, and do not disdain the good gifts of this "fleshy" world as you call it, but rather appreciate your food and your drink which are all experiences created for you by Allah, and they are specific to you, as no one else shares any of the information you experience except Allah who encompasses all of it. Eat and drink and wear your nice clothing and worship Allah and be in peace and be kind and loving to yourself and others and the animals down to the smallest insects, and do not give anxiety or discomfort to any for as much as you can help it. Make yourself like paradise and goodness, and do unto others as you would have God do unto you, so if you want mercy and goodness and humor and happiness from God, be so kind to the people and help them to laugh and help them enjoy, and do not forget to worship, even I get late, and the loss I experience is only to me and all the opportunities to focus back are good opportunities, one has no benefit necessarily in reductions but additions can be made if one does not harm their living.
Thank you for asking me. The reason I keep typing about the whole will issue, is that people keep mocking it and mocking me for it, so then I try to show the Qur'an if they care to see. If you ask me about other things then it is no problem. You'll see in the other thread on the forum I wrote a little about the Qur'an and stuff, I got on this free will subject because people seemed to be foolishly attached to this concept which is only made important in the Western culture, and its ultimately a silly idea. Determinism, Fatalism, Occasionalism, these are the things that the ancient religions taught, and now even modern scientists are seeing how things appear conditioned and at the immediate level they are being manifested "out of nothing".
What benefit does it give? It gives those who believe a sense of great peace and surrender and submission, that whatever good and whatever bad comes to you, it is from Allah alone, to whom you are surrendered willingly or unwillingly (meaning whatever the information you are fed, you have no choice but to always eat it and experience it). So you pray then sincerely in the immediate level that Allah spares you from all harm and the experience of harm and blesses you with pleasure and good things and the experience of pleasure and good things, and makes you one of those who are grateful, and makes you one of those who are best and most kind and most excellent and beautiful in every way including your conduct.
So thank you for asking me something else besides this free will issue. If someone can not handle the news that Allah is the sole power and controls all information, then they should not worry about it yet, but focus instead on the immediate level they perceive, where they must strive and work diligently in goodness.