The Quran objectifies women
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"Disdain" is not exactly my view of it and I know the world is created and sustained by God, and you are right that one should appreciate highly what they are bestowed upon by God, but that is it. We should also avoid indulgence in the "flesh" and it is better to abstain from the world as much as possible. It is also a test and an illusion all the which God sustains. There is a better world without physical means as in this world.
If you do not think that way you have missed part of the message. Even Quran in traditional interpretations imply that you should avoid being worldly. You should be aware of what is material and mostly appreciate he non-material prosperity such as soul depth and that you are not void of understanding.
You seem awfully fleshly in that regard and think that you should love the material part of this world as per God's command, but this is not right. If you are close to God you are basically appreciative about you being that and do not rely so much on materialism.
Even the passage that Samira highlighted in this tread implies that vanity in indulging in this world.
Salaam
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"Disdain" is not exactly my view of it and I know the world is created and sustained by God, and you are right that one should appreciate highly what they are bestowed upon by God, but that is it. We should also avoid indulgence in the "flesh" and it is better to abstain from the world as much as possible. It is also a test and an illusion all the which God sustains. There is a better world without physical means as in this world.
If you do not think that way you have missed part of the message. Even Quran in traditional interpretations imply that you should avoid being worldly. You should be aware of what is material and mostly appreciate he non-material prosperity such as soul depth and that you are not void of understanding.
You seem awfully fleshly in that regard and think that you should love the material part of this world as per God's command, but this is not right. If you are close to God you are basically appreciative about you being that and do not rely so much on materialism.
Even the passage that Samira highlighted in this tread implies that vanity in indulging in this world.
Salaam
I think you should be appreciative of what God created, and God did not create a trap for mice and then expect the mice of their own power to deny the trap and somehow magically escape it of their own power. Allah created absolutely everything the way it is and did not slip up or make a mistake. Even the "spiritual realm" does not "co-exist" with God, but would be information created by God, just different information created by God than this information created by God but all of it is information created by God and God did not make some error and no event can ever occur which God did not bring into existence, that "oops, they are in the fleshy world, oops they weren't supposed to be, oops I slipped up, oops" such is a poor estimate of God and a sorry depiction of the Perfect Master.
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Quran 8320....pre destination
No offense, but I wonder sometimes if you're a bot, since bots are similar in their behavior sometimes online.
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This world does not exist at all Mr FreedomStands. It is an illusion.
Salaan
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This world does not exist at all Mr FreedomStands. It is an illusion.
Salaan
Who else has been saying that? Me! Thank you! Check out my latest long yarn of a post if you find the time, I'd really appreciate it!
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Everything that exists outside of God is an illusion, but a DIVINE illusion.
We owe thanks and respect for that illusion, because though it may be an illussion, it is not a lie, it is a truthful "projection" if Gods names.
Salaam
That is right, Allah creates the "illusion" and though it is not the "Eternal Truth" but just the "truth" at any moment, we are alive in it, and part of it, and Allah is the one who has given us life and experience thereby and there is no experience save what Allah creates.
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And I said that long before you begun coming to this forum, FreedomStands. It is just that I do not attribute lousy decisions on my Sustainer. Those are from people themselves.
That is also why I am not so fussy about material stuff. I appreciate it if course, but I do not really indulge myself in it and avoid when I can.
I suppose you do not really understand my view of Allah.
Salaam
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And I said that long before you begun coming to this forum, FreedomStands. It is just that I do not attribute lousy decisions on my Sustainer. Those are from people themselves.
SalaamThat's pretty much my view as well. Will is not controlled completely by Allah, otherwise there would have been no free will to begin with in the first place.
Peace.
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And I said that long before you begun coming to this forum, FreedomStands. It is just that I do not attribute lousy decisions on my Sustainer. Those are from people themselves.
That is also why I am not so fussy about material stuff. I appreciate it if course, but I do not really indulge myself in it and avoid when I can.
I suppose you do not really understand my view of Allah.
Salaam
You just said your view of Allah, I think its more that you might not understand my view, which is explained with strict logic in this post
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607144.msg362131#msg362131
I am not saying that what you do wrong is not you doing it, just like the lion eats the gazelle, or the fly lands on the garbage, it is the fly landing on the garbage, it is the lion eating the gazelle and the gazelle trying to get away.
If you read that post and try not to find flaws (and therefor imbuing it with imaginary flaws, phantom flaws) you may see that I am not saying anything particularly different from you or Samira, it is actually you and others who seem to be misunderstanding what I have been presenting which is based strictly on very solid logic as I explain in what I wrote.
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Peace huruf,
Everything that exists outside of God is an illusion, but a DIVINE illusion.
We owe thanks and respect for that illusion, because though it may be an illussion, it is not a lie, it is a truthful "projection" if Gods names.
Thank you for clarifying that your God is a finite God.
My God is an infinite God and NOTHING exists OUTSIDE of that infinite God. The infinite God does not have an outside due to it being infinite.
Peace and may the love and light of the infinite Creator be with you.
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Peace huruf,
Thank you for clarifying that your God is a finite God.
My God is an infinite God and NOTHING exists OUTSIDE of that infinite God. The infinite God does not have an outside due to it being infinite.
Peace and may the love and light of the infinite Creator be with you.
Yeah, I think he may have meant "other than God" but its good of you to notice!
Have you had the time at all to read what I wrote in your thread? I'm glad you made it!
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Peace huruf,
Thank you for clarifying that your God is a finite God.
My God is an infinite God and NOTHING exists OUTSIDE of that infinite God. The infinite God does not have an outside due to it being infinite.
Peace and may the love and light of the infinite Creator be with you.
Don't be silly, you know perfectly what I mean. If you mean to clarify that then it is ok by me, but a do not think anybody else misaunderstood and you do not need to parade "Your God and may God" stuff. It is not your God, you do not own Him, astaghfirullah. And, of course, I do not need to say that God is the only one who owns anything, and nobody can own Him. So I do not have my God, I am God's, the only One that is, though He brings into existence whatever He pleases, and takes away from existence also whatever He pleases and makes us conceive of things as separate or not of Him.
Other than that, existence and being are two different things.
Salaam
Salaam -
Peace huruf,
Don't be silly, you know perfectly what I mean.
No I don't know perfectly what you mean when our only method of communication is words. I don't have the power of knowing someone else's thoughts and intentions telepathically yet I haven't reached that advanced stage yet and have to go only by words
My sincere suggestion is to be more careful in choosing words to express your thoughts, because otherwise it can cause misunderstandings such as this.
If you mean to clarify that then it is ok by me, but a do not think anybody else misaunderstood
I had no idea that all others here are advanced beings, who have telepathic capabilities! I am not there yet, so I had to clarify
The only way to correctly transmit information to a non telepathic entity is to be careful in what words are chosen.
and you do not need to parade "Your God and may God" stuff. It is not your God, you do not own Him, astaghfirullah. And, of course, I do not need to say that God is the only one who owns anything, and nobody can own Him. So I do not have my God, I am God's, the only One that is, though He brings into existence whatever He pleases, and takes away from existence also whatever He pleases and makes us conceive of things as separate or not of Him.
Thank you for the clarification. Your earlier post made it sound like we had 2 contradictory concepts. I am glad to know that we are on the same page. handshake
There would have been no misunderstanding if instead of saying
Everything that exists outside of God is an illusion, but a DIVINE illusion.
You would have said
"Every physical manifestation of the infinite God is an illusion, which makes us conceive of things as separate from the infinite God".
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you.
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Even very careful communication can have great difficulty reaching people, it seems like the Tower of Babel situation going on.
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Peace FreedomStands.
Now I can read every word you are writing. I even have time to have a cup of tea!
And you have time to make me a cup of tea. Remember it is your turn.
I made you a cup of tea in that other thread, did you enjoy it?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace FreedomStands.
Now I can read every word you are writing. I even have time to have a cup of tea!
And you have time to make me a cup of tea. Remember it is your turn.
I made you a cup of tea in that other thread, did you enjoy it?
GOD bless you.
Peace.haha I did laugh at this post and I have been enjoying this new approach you're taking with me, its very fun and it makes me happy and I deeply appreciate the relief of laughing. Thank you! Seriously, its super kind of you!
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Hello everyone,
I know that is a controversial sounding name for this topic. I have come across this particular verse and I am finding difficulty in shaking it off. I am curious how you guys would see this verse, which appear misogynous
314 Beautified for people is the love of that which they desire - of women and sons, heaped-up sums of gold and silver, fine branded horses, and cattle and tilled land. That is the enjoyment of worldly life, but Allah has with Him the best return.
The word 'Nas' is translated normally as 'mankind' or 'people'. And here it says that in PEOPLE itself they have been given the desire of WOMEN. I thought women were supposed to be people as well? Hence we women are being regarded as not even people in this case, but like cattle, or as property, for men who are apparently the real people. That's a serious objectification regarding women, or is a blatant error, either in the Quran's interpretation or the Arabic text itself.
People sometimes say it is other people's fault for misinterpreting the Quran and creating problems in the world. Looks like the Quran in several places actually approves of their actions as well to an extent. It even looks like many people's messed-up attitude is a direct result from reading the scripture, and coming across such verses. Some embarrassed translators translated 'Nas' as 'men', which is wrong.
I wonder how you guys would translate this verse. In this case both 'Nas' and 'Nisaa', or either one of them, would require a dramatic re-interpretation. Otherwise, the Quran very clearly stated something which objectifies women, since the wording in this verse is as though they are not being part of "real" people. I know it may look simple to casual viewers, and I had never properly glimpsed at it before, but now that I did, it has stuck in my head and disrupted my peace.
Salaam to all.
There is no such such thing "objectifying" woman in Arabic text. For analysis, retrieval of information and understanding a text, first thing to do is segmentation of text into sentences. Please do that and then translate.
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Peace FreedomStands.
Now I can read every word you are writing. I even have time to have a cup of tea!
And you have time to make me a cup of tea. Remember it is your turn.
I made you a cup of tea in that other thread, did you enjoy it?
GOD bless you.
Peace.Haha, I apologize but I won't be able to make a thread of your 2000 posts like I had wished to. I just worked on a version for myself and it was a super painstaking process because of the text limiter for each post! I had originally thought I could just put it all in one post! I wanted to post the full Qur'an with all translations for each verse but that won't likely be possible either! So I'm really sorry about that, but thank you so much for the good humor, I've seriously enjoyed it and it really helped out and bless you for that it is one of the best deeds in my opinion to make people laugh and have a good time!
I will hopefully continue to read all your posts though! I've enjoyed them so far!