The best way to discover the truth!
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Hello FreedomStands,
Thank you for sharing your understanding but I think you misunderstood the thread. This thread is not about the answers to those questions, but the best way to discover the true answers to those questions.
I think the best way to discover the truth is to experience it yourself, instead of trusting other sources or asking someone else. Find out for yourself! One way to experience the truth for yourself is discussed in the referenced videos.
Did you watch the videos I referenced?
What method did you use to discover the answers to those questions? In other words how do you know the answers to those questions?
Is it logic? If so, then human logic can be flawed.
In the 1930's, Austrian mathematician Godel proved a theorem which became the "Godel theorem" in cognition theory. It states that any formalized 'logical' system in principle cannot be complete in itself. It means that a statement can always be found that can be neither proved nor disproved using the means of that particular system. To discuss about such a statement, one must go beyond that very logic system; otherwise nothing but a vicious circle will result. Psychologists say that any experience is contingent - its opposite is logically possible and hence should not be treated as contradictory.
The existence of paradoxes in logic demonstrates that it is not perfect.
Logic is invented by fallilble human beings and as such, logic is not expected to be perfect.
Logic relies on language, numbers and symbols which by themselves are not complete and thus contribute to the emergence of paradoxes.
The most critical limitation in logic is not its paradoxes but the fact that logic only proves the truth-values of its propositions and not the truths of reality.
"That logic should have been thus successful is an advantage which it owes entirely to its limitations, whereby it is justified in abstracting -- indeed, it is under obligation to do so -- from all objects of knowledge and their differences, leaving the understanding nothing to deal with save itself and its form." -Kant.
Whilst logic has its flaws, it is still very useful as long as we know its limits.
In addition, those who by nature have high inclinations to use logic should not be too arrogant or 'dogmatic' on it.
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you.
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Hello FreedomStands,
I am going to write a speech, or a "rant" and many parts of it have nothing to do with you particularly, so please take no offense, nor should anyone take offense at it, because I am speaking in general and it isn't always even particular to this website, it is what I have seen all over the place with lots of people
Thank you for sharing your understanding but I think you misunderstood the thread. This thread is not about the answers to those questions, but the best way to discover the true answers to those questions.
I think the best way to discover the truth is to experience it yourself, instead of trusting other sources or asking someone else. Find out for yourself! One way to experience the truth for yourself is discussed in the referenced videos.
Did you watch the videos I referenced?
What method did you use to discover the answers to those questions? In other words how do you know the answers to those questions?
Is it logic? If so, then human logic can be flawed.
In the 1930's, Austrian mathematician Godel proved a theorem which became the "Godel theorem" in cognition theory. It states that any formalized 'logical' system in principle cannot be complete in itself. It means that a statement can always be found that can be neither proved nor disproved using the means of that particular system. To discuss about such a statement, one must go beyond that very logic system; otherwise nothing but a vicious circle will result. Psychologists say that any experience is contingent - its opposite is logically possible and hence should not be treated as contradictory.
The existence of paradoxes in logic demonstrates that it is not perfect.
Logic is invented by fallilble human beings and as such, logic is not expected to be perfect.
Logic relies on language, numbers and symbols which by themselves are not complete and thus contribute to the emergence of paradoxes.
The most critical limitation in logic is not its paradoxes but the fact that logic only proves the truth-values of its propositions and not the truths of reality.
"That logic should have been thus successful is an advantage which it owes entirely to its limitations, whereby it is justified in abstracting -- indeed, it is under obligation to do so -- from all objects of knowledge and their differences, leaving the understanding nothing to deal with save itself and its form." -Kant.
Whilst logic has its flaws, it is still very useful as long as we know its limits.
In addition, those who by nature have high inclinations to use logic should not be too arrogant or 'dogmatic' on it.
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you.
I know this thread isn't about the answers to those questions, I understood that and I read your original post as well. I took the opportunity to answer those questions. For the very thing you posted here, I explained it in what I wrote, under the terminology that "information can not create itself or be explained by itself". I guess you didn't read what I wrote or appreciate my contribution. Thank you for your reply.
Certainly the worst way to "know" something is to just assume whatever comes to your mind or is whispered to you from inside is certainly the truth, and what I wrote about were only "necessities" as I explained in what I wrote. Of course it appears very long and overwhelming, so people don't want to read it, and even if they read it partially or entirely, they often seem to misunderstand and think that I am just saying things that can't be known for certain, when I am speaking only of the necessities of reality, and I am very particular in my language and careful.
I'm quite sick of Muslims saying "they don't know" and by doing so they worship various idols in their imagination based on their ignorance, their ignorance itself is an indication of their flirtation with idolatry, and what I am writing is to make people certain and without a doubt as to what must be logically necessary, and the absolute worst thing to follow is your "intuition" or "heart" in matters, as such has led people to horrific assumptions and absurd ideas, and has led many to their utter destruction in this life and possibly any others.
So what you wrote about logic isn't wrong, but what I wrote is not dealing with "proving if the microphone exists or not" or any of that kind of silly stuff, I deal only with necessities, and even mention things which are in the same vein as what you wrote to me (which makes it appear you didn't actually read or understand anything I wrote).
Thank you for the blessing, but I find the repeated and practically empty words people are presenting on this website are in themselves quite jarring, like people saying rude things (you didn't say anything rude, I just mean other people) and starting and ending with their feigned "peace" or "God bless".
Seriously, I came here originally to just get in contact with some new people who were interested, but while I waited I ended up writing some really interesting stuff (interesting to me at least, since I may be the only one or one of the very few who actually reads and understands what I am writing apparently).
Sorry for any hostility you may perceive in my response.
Free-Minds.org is teaching me that the "Muslims", and even those who I expected to be good due to their having gone to the Qur'an, are the victims of the same (shall we call it retardation?) that the kaffirs deal with in their thinking day to day.
If I could take people by their necks and put shock collars on them, as I expect my Master to do someday, I would love to put the fools in harnesses and drive them before me as slaves.
Oh how terrible that must sound to all of you, but why should I hide it?
I really dislike what I've encountered on this website for the most part, the people are really abhorrent to me in many ways.
Oh no! Don't say that! Certainly I am being fanatical! Well this is "free-minds" isn't it? Here I set myself free to discuss with you candidly how I'm feeling.
I spit at these concepts that people are presenting, not out of arrogance so much as that they are entirely based on nothing worthwhile, and all the while they THINK that what I am saying is not actually based on absolute necessity and that I am just presenting "a system" with any similarity to theirs, and to justify their stupid interpretation of what I say, they entirely misrepresent it and end up reviling even God in the process.
Though it is good to revile God, since that word is now associated with every sort of idolatry and idiocy imaginable.
You Muslims, Yeah, You Muslims, Do not "know" your God? Or is it that you "know" what you do not even try to understand? You have "surrendered" to something without being able to properly understand and describe what it is you are "surrendering" to? Then let me tell you what you are surrendering to. You are surrendering to falsehood, and garbage, not Allah at all. Such was the same of the idolatrous people of the past, who did not use their minds to follow things to their necessities and stick to the necessities, and instead imagined things and possibilities and were full of conjectures which led them nowhere but hopefully to hell. "We do not know" they would say "We do not know for certain if God has a face or not", "We do not know if God is partnered with Love or not" etc. Do you know how infuriated that makes someone who DOES ACTUALLY KNOW because of thinking about only what is absolutely necessary? If this was a world without consequences, I would be the foremost in acting towards the destruction of such people, and I invite the True God to put an end to these horrible creatures just like God did in the past.
Oh what a wicked desire, eh? The desire of the Prophets, the Angels, and God and all those who KNOW.
Do any of you understand by chance that by saying "we don't know" your worship is entirely misdirected? Do any of you realize that by saying "we aren't sure" that you are flirting with all sorts of shirk and partnerships, and the shirk is the highest of sins that isn't forgiven if you die in it?
When you aren't sure, and when you don't know, you should not be speaking about any of these things (I don't mean you personally). Remember when the Qur'an says do not approach prayer in a drunken state or when you don't know what you are saying? Well this seems to be one of those cases, where people constantly are saying to me "we don't know" and they think I am the one guessing, when I am telling you that I am NOT guessing, nor am I just SAYING THINGS that I have invented, I am speaking about what is NECESSARY. Take out the word LOGIC if you find it a block to understanding. Take out the word GOD if it makes you think of idols in any form which is anything which can be partnered with (shirk means sharing, the sharing of powers in particular).
I really find it totally annoying how people on this website (quite stupidly actually) get really obsessed with particular words and then take offense to or pounce on their usage, like some people hate the word "religion" here and insist on other things (My response is "Who CARES!" it is entirely idiotic to get stuck on words and let them trip you up so much, and I don't mean you in particular), or get obsessed with other silly words, like "logic" and "truth" or whatever else.
I mainly see deep ignorance here, and not the good kind of ignorance, where people don't know something so they seek to learn, but the kind of ignorance that people literally shut their eyes and refuse to know, even when it is laid out for them endlessly. Those are indeed behaving like the "deaf, dumb, blind".
It is also stupid how people think they need to "put me in my place" out of their own arrogance and think that my contributions are just my own arrogance rather than something they could potentially use to their advantage tremendously. They think I am making it up, they think by my using the word "logic" (and Oh am I sorry for using a word that so many people yet again find difficulty to move past to actually focus on what the heck I am saying) I must then be presenting something similar to anyone else who uses the word "logic" and since all such people are "flawed" then certainly even this thing I am saying about necessary components must also be flawed so we shall ignore it (because indeed it was too long anyway).
How many times have people come back to me with a complete misrepresentation or misinterpretation of what I have written? It is almost every single time, and they really seem to adore their ignorance and their "unknown God" and his associates.
God is not "unknown" or "unknowable" for the reasons people think, it is not that there is some abhorrent CREATURE somewhere hiding from you which MAY BE GOD. Such a thing, even if it existed, should NEVER BE CONSIDERED GOD OR WORSHIPED. What I have written explains why.
Do you understand? When you see the Buddha, Kill the Buddha. Why? Because that is delusion! It is imaginary! There is no such thing!
So all these peoples Gods, their stupid Gods, I would kill them all, and I am here now to try to encourage you to kill them as well. THAT IS THE RELIGION OF ABRAHAM, THAT IS THE RELIGION OF MUSA, THAT IS THE RELIGION OF JESUS, THAT IS THE RELIGION OF MUHAMMED.
Abraham smashed the idols both physically and in his own mind. Musa destroyed the Man who claimed Power (Pharoah) and the Golden Calf and had the idols of his mind destroyed by Allah in the event of the "showing", and Jesus rejected people idolizing him, and Muhammed cleansed Mecca.
So even if all your idols exist, all of them, even if they are floating around in space, even if the Gods with "faces" and the Gods that look like suns, and the Gods that are like mist, all exist, THEY ARE NOT TO BE WORSHIPED, we do not "not know" and therefor invite every sort of idolatry into our imaginations. WE MUST KNOW, WE MUST KNOW.
There is no "maybe" about it, there is no "well you don't know if God has a face or not" NO! NO! YOU MUST UNDERSTAND WHY ANY "Face" is NEVER GOD. If you don't understand that and why that can NEVER BE THE CASE, then you (I don't mean you personally, I mean anyone who doesn't know that and why that can't be) is REALLY AN EASY VICTIM FOR SHAITAN AND SHIRK.
"What is wrong with believing in a God with a face?" BECAUSE THAT CAN NEVER BE GOD, THAT FACE IS NOT GOD, NOT EVER, because that FACE is made of information, and if you can not handle the word information, just replace it with "something".
Even Paul's letters in the Bible make it clear that he understood that what is seen is transitory, what is not made out of "something" alone is eternal.
I explain why that is NECESSARY, why that is SO.
I didn't misunderstand the intention of this thread, I used the opportunity to write and share something, and it doesn't seem you even cared to read it, assuming that "we can't know" or promoting perhaps that people should "know in their hearts". If their hearts are diseased? They will never follow the proper path and should never be told to follow their whims or the whispers of their mind or their intuitions, look at all the people that following their "heart" has led them to bigotry and "I just know Jesus is the Lord" and whatever other blasphemies they say "I know in my heart that God is just like us and has a wife". Yeah? Forgive my language but ____ the heart! The "heart" which has misled so many people in this world and kept them so ignorant "because it just feels right".
SMASH THE HEART TO BITS, STOMP ON IT UNTIL ITS COMPLETELY DEAD. SMASH YOUR BRAIN TOO WHILE YOU ARE AT IT! Since it seems completely broken for so many people. It is time to get a NEW HEART and a NEW BRAIN one that does not flirt with IDOLS and does not believe in a disgusting "God".
If you think "Allah" is not exactly what I am saying and only what I am saying, because I have only said what is absolutely logically necessary, and you think "He doesn't know, surely Allah might be something else" then you not only haven't read or paid attention to my writing, but you (and I don't mean you personally) are worshiping only imaginary things or leaving the option opened for imaginary things, and such things even if they exist are never ever what should be called or considered God.
If you see something in-front of you, and it says "Hello, I am Allah" slit its throat and throw it in the gutter where it belongs with the rest of us.
Gouge out its eyes, and tear it to shreds, and then you may know the True God and the Only God.
NOT THE ONLY GOD JUST BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE THINK SO AND IT MIGHT NOT BE TRUE BUT JUST BECAUSE IT HAPPENS TO BE THE CASE. NO! THE ONLY GOD BECAUSE THAT IS ACTUALLY NECESSARY ABSOLUTELY AND CAN NOT BE ANY OTHER WAY IF YOU ACTUALLY UNDERSTOOD AND LET YOURSELF COME TO KNOW WHY!
This is so important, but again what I've written here will be misunderstood probably, and people will call me crazy and say look how hostile and scary he is and pray earnestly that I leave this place and go away so they can live in peace with their baseless ideas that are not based on necessity at all but just conjecture.
I am not conjecturing, nor do I flirt with Shirk, and I know what I am talking about, not the way a fanatic knows from "blind faith" and is really just passionate about his own imaginary delusions, but I know because of REALITY and what is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY AND NOTHING MORE THAN THAT. The more than that would be the conjecturing, but when I have written these clear explanations it is so that people KNOW, it isn't GUESSING, it is only talking very carefully about necessity.
Thank you for reading this, I hope you all can also read carefully what I wrote above this.
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Peace FreedomStands.
Now," Pilate" would be looking for you . All his soldiers( the members here who are misunderstanding you/rude to you) will be arresting you. Then you will be made to carry your cross ( across all the threads!), humiliated and debased because how dare you "smash up" their gods?
You will soon be in court in front of Pilate and his soldiers accused of being crazy...etc.
I am the man from the other sideof the world warning you to make a run for it...
On a serious note. Relax and enjoy yourself here . This forum is not that bad .
Sit down, I bring you a cup of tea. Good, now you are refreshed. Back to work.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace FreedomStands.
Now," Pilate" would be looking for you . All his soldiers( the members here who are misunderstanding you/rude to you) will be arresting you. Then you will be made to carry your cross ( across all the threads!), humiliated and debased because how dare you "smash up" their gods?
You will soon be in court in front of Pilate and his soldiers accused of being crazy...etc.
I am the man from the other sideof the world warning you to make a run for it...
On a serious note. Relax and enjoy yourself here . This forum is not that bad .
Sit down, I bring you a cup of tea. Good, now you are refreshed. Back to work.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Haha, I'm sorry if my post disturbed you, I was exactly making the speech to give that tone which you picked up on, but humorously. I really enjoyed your post, but just so you don't feel too bothered, my speech above and my cross carrying drama is part of a "passion play" re-enactment of the Qur'an/Bible and not meant to be taken too seriously, it is just playful, and of course it couldn't really be made possible or as wonderful as it has been without the assistance of all these other characters and people playing along (even though they seem to often take it seriously possibly but should understand I am not bothered and I have encouraged it multiple times explicitly and try to let people know this just to allow them to let loose their wild side if they wish, in a safe environment like this website, and also it helps me because it exposes potential ways people argue and what arguments they make which I can adapt to then in the real world where I'd never try to get in trouble or be noticed or ganged up on or encourage it haha, only because of my soft body, if I had an awesome metallic and immune body that no one else did and no one could hurt you, it might be fun then to go out preaching and encouraging stoning).
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Peace FreedomStands.
Now," Pilate" would be looking for you . All his soldiers( the members here who are misunderstanding you/rude to you) will be arresting you. Then you will be made to carry your cross ( across all the threads!), humiliated and debased because how dare you "smash up" their gods?
You will soon be in court in front of Pilate and his soldiers accused of being crazy...etc.
I am the man from the other sideof the world warning you to make a run for it...
On a serious note. Relax and enjoy yourself here . This forum is not that bad .
Sit down, I bring you a cup of tea. Good, now you are refreshed. Back to work.
GOD bless you.
Peace.I concur with good logic. Which I would also call "good heart", even if that smacks a bit of "intuition" to freedomstands, hehe.
Because I do trust intuition, my intuition, and that of others when it is in agreement with mine..... rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
Salaam, even if I am one of the "unpleasant" ones.
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I concur with good logic. Which I would also call "good heart", even if that smacks a bit of "intuition" to freedomstands, hehe.
Because I do trust intuition, my intuition, and that of others when it is in agreement with mine..... rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
Salaam, even if I am one of the "unpleasant" ones.
No way, you're not! I also use my intuitive abilities and guess at things, but when it comes to my writing things that I am saying are necessary for anything to exist, those are not guesses, but speaking about things that are absolutely necessary.
I often use my intuition and listen to the whispers, but what I was trying to say is that those things are absolutely not tools to "know" or "be certain" of essential and necessary things. I am also saying I do not "trust in the intuition" of "others" because I have seen how many people use their intuition in a bad way and say "my intuition tells me not to listen to sense" or "Jesus is God" or whatever other things. It isn't a matter of "maybe Jesus is God, who knows" but it is actually quite clear to anyone who can comprehend what I am writing why Jesus CAN NOT BE GOD because of what is NECESSARY as I've explained but no one seems to read.
Also, I am glad you are laughing and having fun, when I am making a big fuss and a drama it is also for the sake of humor and comedy.
Look at my latest humorous speech that may seem like I'm angry but I'm actually trying to also make people amused
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607144.msg362297#msg362297
I hope he finds the humor in what I've wrote, I also poke fun at myself in this way, and my speeches are meant to be funny or make me appear like a funny or amusing character (which I am, hopefully, even to you all).
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Peace FreedomStands,
I know this thread isn't about the answers to those questions, I understood that and I read your original post as well. I took the opportunity to answer those questions.
I know that your intentions were good, but isn't that inconsiderate and even disrespectful by going OFF TOPIC in someone else's thread? fftopic
I guess you didn't read what I wrote or appreciate my contribution.
A sincere advice would be not to assume or guess about anything. Conjecture will seriously hinder you in your quest for the truth.
Did you watch the videos I posted? Your lack of any comments about them seem to imply that you didn't, but I don't want to assume or guess, so I am asking you directly.
Contrary to what you conjectured, I did read your post and I agree with some things you wrote and I disagree with some things, but I didn't comment on it because that would be off topic fftopic
If you wanted to answer questions that I didn't ask, you could have created a new thread. If you were considerate to others, you would have the courtesy to limit your comments to the topic of this thread, and would not have gone off topic.
Certainly the worst way to "know" something is to just assume whatever comes to your mind or is whispered to you from inside is certainly the truth,
Agreed.
Finally, on topic for the first time in this thread. yay
and what I wrote about were only "necessities" as I explained in what I wrote. Of course it appears very long and overwhelming, so people don't want to read it, and even if they read it partially or entirely, they often seem to misunderstand and think that I am just saying things that can't be known for certain, when I am speaking only of the necessities of reality, and I am very particular in my language and careful.
What you think the "necessities" of reality are, may not be the actual "necessities" of reality.
How do you know what you claim to be the "necessities" of reality, are in fact "necessities" of reality? What is the source of your information about what "necessities" of reality are?
I'm quite sick of Muslims saying "they don't know" and by doing so they worship various idols in their imagination based on their ignorance, their ignorance itself is an indication of their flirtation with idolatry
Agreed.
and what I am writing is to make people certain and without a doubt as to what must be logically necessary,
Logic has its own flaws as I outlined in my previous post.
I repeat How do you know what you claim to be "logically necessary", is in fact "logically necessary"? What is the source of your information about "what must be logically necessary"?
and the absolute worst thing to follow is your "intuition" or "heart" in matters, as such has led people to horrific assumptions and absurd ideas, and has led many to their utter destruction in this life and possibly any others.
3030 and 1736 seem to claim otherwise.
3030 So establish yourself to the system of monotheism. It is the inclination that God has nurtured the people on. There is no changing in the creation of God. Such is the pure system, but most of the people do not know.
1737 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of; for the hearing, eyesight, and heart - all these you are responsible for.
"Intuition" or "heart" can be right also but by closing yourself off to that possibility and being dogmatic about it being "the absolute worst thing to follow", you might miss out on the truth. At least be open to the possibility of "intuition" or "heart" being right.
So what you wrote about logic isn't wrong,
I am glad we have logic out of the way as being the best way to discover the truth.
Thank you for the blessing, but I find the repeated and practically empty words people are presenting on this website are in themselves quite jarring, like people saying rude things (you didn't say anything rude, I just mean other people) and starting and ending with their feigned "peace" or "God bless".
I will continue to send blessings to you and everyone else because I have an idea who you and everyone else here are in reality Not the earthly reality but the real reality
Seriously, I came here originally to just get in contact with some new people who were interested, but while I waited I ended up writing some really interesting stuff (interesting to me at least, since I may be the only one or one of the very few who actually reads and understands what I am writing apparently).
I know you have good intentions, but my sincere advice to you is to be considerate to others and don't go off topic in someone else's thread.
Before you again start assuming and guessing what I have read or haven't read, rest of your reply was off topic, so I am not going to comment on it even though I read it! fftopic
Please open a new thread if you wish to bring those issues to the attention of others.
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you all.
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Peace FreedomStands,
I know that your intentions were good, but isn't that inconsiderate and even disrespectful by going OFF TOPIC in someone else's thread? offtopic
A sincere advice would be not to assume or guess about anything. Conjecture will seriously hinder you in your quest for the truth.
Did you watch the videos I posted? Your lack of any comments about them seem to imply that you didn't, but I don't want to assume or guess, so I am asking you directly.
Contrary to what you conjectured, I did read your post and I agree with some things you wrote and I disagree with some things, but I didn't comment on it because that would be off topic offtopic
If you wanted to answer questions that I didn't ask, you could have created a new thread. If you were considerate to others, you would have the courtesy to limit your comments to the topic of this thread, and would not have gone off topic.
Agreed.
Finally, on topic for the first time in this thread. yay
What you think the "necessities" of reality are, may not be the actual "necessities" of reality.
How do you know what you claim to be the "necessities" of reality, are in fact "necessities" of reality? What is the source of your information about what "necessities" of reality are?
Agreed.
Logic has its own flaws as I outlined in my previous post.
I repeat How do you know what you claim to be "logically necessary", is in fact "logically necessary"? What is the source of your information about "what must be logically necessary"?
3030 and 1736 seem to claim otherwise.
3030 So establish yourself to the system of monotheism. It is the inclination that God has nurtured the people on. There is no changing in the creation of God. Such is the pure system, but most of the people do not know.
1737 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of; for the hearing, eyesight, and heart - all these you are responsible for.
"Intuition" or "heart" can be right also but by closing yourself off to that possibility and being dogmatic about it being "the absolute worst thing to follow", you might miss out on the truth. At least be open to the possibility of "intuition" or "heart" being right.
I am glad we have logic out of the way as being the best way to discover the truth.
I will continue to send blessings to you and everyone else because I have an idea who you and everyone else here are in reality ) Not the earthly reality but the real reality )
I know you have good intentions, but my sincere advice to you is to be considerate to others and don't go off topic in someone else's thread.
Before you again start assuming and guessing what I have read or haven't read, rest of your reply was off topic, so I am not going to comment on it even though I read it! offtopic
Please open a new thread if you wish to bring those issues to the attention of others.
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you all.
I didn't go off topic at all. Just because you don't like the response (and tell me what is wrong with anything I said), doesn't mean it is "off topic". I stayed entirely on topic. The topic is called "The best way to discover the truth!" and you asked those questions in it (even if you despised the answers, you still wrote it and I was responding to those things you wrote, it wasn't off topic, as I was also talking about the best way to discover the truth, which is thinking in the manner that I showed clearly). So nothing about what I wrote was off topic, and even now it is not off topic. Just because you didn't want to read it or that it was so lengthy doesn't mean it was off topic at all, it was completely related to what was written here and even to the things you wrote in your post, so what in the world are you talking about? Might it not be considered inconsiderate of you to not appreciate such a lengthy reply completely based on the questions you wrote and as a reply to the topic of this thread "The best way to discover the truth!". Huh?
Now "How do you know what you claim to be "logically necessary", is in fact "logically necessary"? What is the source of your information about "what must be logically necessary"?"
It shows me that you did not process what I wrote, because if you did, you would know I did not conjecture or make guesses at all and based everything I wrote on actual necessity, it isn't a matter of "how do you know it is logical necessity or necessity at all?"
This is how I know To say "something exists" and not specify, or to say "there is information" is not a GUESS, nor is it a CONJECTURE, it is speaking of something in a vague way THAT IS KNOWN AND WELL ESTABLISHED based on how it is being defined carefully. If you can not process that, and you think that "maybe there isn't information" you are being an argumentative person with no sensible basis for any such claim because "information" is being defined as "this all" and if you are saying "this all" does not exist and is not being experienced, then you are an obvious liar in that case. Do you understand that these things are OBVIOUS? They are not "guesses" when I say "information is experienced" because I am experiencing it, and if you aren't experiencing it, I wouldn't know either way, and I was very clear in my language if you took the time to notice. I call this "How do you know what you claim to be "logically necessary", is in fact "logically necessary"? What is the source of your information about "what must be logically necessary"?" kind of stuff promotion of a broken brain mentality, literally its like someone has to be to put it in modern slang "retarded" to think they can justify the statement that "there is no information".
So there are some things that can be "known" and I explained them clearly.
The whole POST was explaining why the things I am saying are only the necessary things to explain reality and why God is necessary to lead to the conclusion of this information which exists.
Not only that, but promoting following the heart is wrong and dangerous, and has had bad results. You say the Qur'an doesn't say so, the word "heart" in Qur'an is used to refer to the "mind" often and the "understanding, consciousness" and says the hearts of many people are diseased, that is basically saying they are "retards" they can not understand "hearts with which they do not understand". To ask people to just rely on that and not give them the answers is asking for big trouble.
Nothing I am saying is wrong, and I never went off topic.
So if you're a "truth seeker" then you will focus on what is necessary and known and observable and obvious and can be determined by using your mind, and you will not be able to understand any of it if your mind is "broken" or "diseased".
It is the "diseased" mind that says things like "How do we know there is anything at all?" lol how ridiculous and absurd, and they think they are being wise by saying such things? No, they are just being dumb and contentious.
or "How do we know it is necessary". I EXPLAINED THAT THE WHOLE POST WAS EXPLAINING THAT DID THAT JUST FLY OVER YOUR HEAD ENTIRELY?
I explained only what is NECESSARY for information to exist and specifically WHY and WHY it can not be any other way, such as "information creating itself" ALL OF IT WAS EXPLAINED CLEARLY.
Now tell me what you disagree with so I can adapt accordingly, but if it is something you can't possibly grasp, then don't worry about it, though you seemed somewhat intelligent before (though you also went into some ideas of "systems" which I DO NOT EVEN MENTION IN MY WRITING, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT SOME PROPOSED SYSTEM, like "the Earth revolves around the sun" or ANYTHING LIKE THAT. It is only to those things that one can reply "How do we know for certain the Earth is revolving around the sun and not some other way" I don't even GO INTO THAT, I go into only what HAS TO BE TRUE and I explain it in detail).
So "How do we know it is necessary" is insulting to ask me, because the WHOLE LONG THING I WROTE EXPLAINS WHY.
To claim "nothing can be know for certain" may seem pious to you, but it is absolutely foolish when it comes to SOME FEW THINGS, such as "there is information/stuff/something" because that is OBVIOUS AND OBSERVABLE, we are not DISTINGUISHING, if you DENY IT then you are a LIAR, it is not something which can be honestly denied, I am not saying "The sun is made out of cheese" I am saying the MOST BASIC THERE "there is stuff" "there is something" "there is information" only a completely contentious and idiotic person who is lying would deny the existence of "stuff" in the vaguest way and say "how do you know there is stuff" when they are using "stuff" even to communicate their stupid question (sorry, I don't mean you in particular, but you really must put it in your mind that some things are indeed entirely stupid to be contentious about).
Can you understand the frustration one might feel when the MOST BASIC HONEST STATEMENTS ARE MADE and they are rejected? How the most basic and vague thing like "there is stuff" can be denied? It CAN NOT BE DENIED, IT IS ONE THING WE KNOW FOR CERTAIN BECAUSE I AM SAYING "whatever at all this is, I am calling it "stuff" or "information". Are you not experiencing anything? Are you just a contentious person who would argue about something that can indeed be known without a doubt? Do you think you're some philosopher because you can say "how do we know there is anything" when you are experiencing "something" because whatever you are experiencing is being defined in the most vague way possible as "something" and no specifics about it are being made? Are you not aware how frustrating that might be to hear someone deny the existence of anything at all while they are even in it and seeing it? Certain such would be DEAF, DUMB, BLIND and a LIAR to boot.
NEXT
I did not SAY anything which can not be clearly KNOWN and is OBVIOUS if anyone uses their mind for two seconds. You would understand why God CAN NOT BE INFORMATION because I EXPLAIN IT CLEARLY WHY GOD CAN NOT BE INFORMATION, and if you think "maybe God is information of some kind" then you are IGNORING THE CLEAR DEFINITION I HAVE GIVEN FOR THE TERM AND THE EXPLANATION OF WHY IT CAN NOT BE SO.
The capitalization is for emphasis, please understand.
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Also, please take no offense, my furious speeches crack me up, I find them very funny and I hope you can too (as they are not intended to insult you personally).
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Peace FreedomStands,
I never take any offense, so the following is not meant to imply that. It is just an observation of mine.
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You are making false hypotheses (putting words in my mouth that I never said or implied), and then addressing the false hypotheses. This is called strawman fallacy.
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You are initiating ad hominem attacks on me which is another fallacy.
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You still haven't answered my direct questions to you, other than saying things are "obvious", and "known" and "necessary".
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You still haven't had the courtesy to do something that I requested you to do and to comment on it.
Therefore, I think it will not benefit either of us to continue this discussion, and there will be no further comments from me.
handshake
I leave you in the love and light of the infinite Creator.
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Peace FreedomStands,
I never take any offense, so the following is not meant to imply that. It is just an observation of mine.
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You are making false hypotheses (putting words in my mouth that I never said or implied), and then addressing the false hypotheses. This is called strawman fallacy.
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You are initiating ad hominem attacks on me which is another fallacy.
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You still haven't answered my direct questions to you, other than saying things are "obvious", and "known" and "necessary".
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You still haven't had the courtesy to do something that I requested you to do and to comment on it.
Therefore, I think it will not benefit either of us to continue this discussion, and there will be no further comments from me.
handshake
I leave you in the love and light of the infinite Creator.
As I explained, my comments were not directed at you specifically, they were general. I actually quoted your words though directly.
No, I think you misunderstood yet again, and I'm glad you're done commenting as it is pretty disgusting to see such misunderstanding repeatedly.
I did answer your questions with the example of how information is something that can't be denied, and explained how and why. If your brain is broken and can not comprehend that in particular, then there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it (of course I may seem to you the one with the broken brain).
I do not have the same glad tidings for you as you do for me. May you come to know that I wasn't wrong at all though, and in fact that what I said was true and that you were the one being contentious about it. Allah will decide the matter between us. Also feel free to communicate with me normally in other threads, this battle need not be extended outside of this particular thread.
Even though you can't seem to derive any answers from what I've written due to what might be some form of disability, I will answer again these numbered points you want me to, and you need to have patience, though if you can no longer communicate (cat got your tongue?) in this thread to me directly, that is fine. I look forward to my further responses, and I do not look forward to your further misunderstandings.
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Wow, promoting "channeling" eh? Yeah, no wonder you reject what I've written. Have patience, I'm going through your new age videos as you requested. They are long too and take time that I don't have too much of when I'm writing all these long things you hate to read of course!
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I think the best way to discover the truth, and to get all the answers is to experience it yourself! After all it is a personal journey. Question everything, assume nothing. Find out for yourself!
You took the words right out of my mouth. Very well, very wisely said!
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Do you believe you are a human being?
Do you believe you are a male or a female?
Do you believe you are your mind?
Do you believe you are a form-based being?
Do you believe reality must be 3 dimensional?
Do you believe your existence is linear?Answering these questions also is "off-topic"? What was the topic? Opening a gateway for Satan through channeling and out of body experiences? Gnosis through hallucination? Not reading replies? Yeah, great stuff you're promoting here. Everyone who shows up as rejecting what I've written seems to have some vile Gnostic agenda in their hand ironically.
I never mentioned any of those questions because those are the sorts of things which are conjecture, or rather they are arbitrary as you can say yes or no to them based on the definitions and none of them are necessary or eternal truths.
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Peace fellow truth seeker Martha,
You took the words right out of my mouth. Very well, very wisely said!
Thank you for your kind comment!
Please ponder and reflect on the following signs from al-quran
3942 God seizes the souls at the time of their death; and for those that have not died, during their sleep. He then keeps those that have been overtaken by death, and He sends the others back until a predetermined time. In that are signs for a people who will think.
Do you agree the above sign refers to having an "out of body experience" by our soul, or "astral projection" during sleep? In my opinion, dreams are what the soul perceives during such an OBE while sleeping, and is one way of experiencing the reality and the truth for ourselves, especially by lucid dreams or even a fully conscious OBE.
4251 And it is not for any human being that God would speak to him, except through inspiration, or from behind a barrier, or by sending a messenger to inspire whom He wills with His permission. He is Most High, Wise.
Al-Quran was channeled to Muhammad by Gabriel with the permission of God.
297 Say "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel, then know that he has sent it down into your heart with the permission of God, authenticating what is with him, and a guide and good news for the believers."
16102 Say "The Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord with the truth, so that those who believe will be strengthened, and as a guidance and good news for those who have submitted."
Do you agree that 4251, 297, 16102 refer to "channeling" from God directly or from a messenger sent by God?
In my opinion, channeling is another way we can experience the reality and the truth for ourselves. I believe that the infinite Creator channels anyone who is open and receptive to it, directly or through positive spiritual entities. Meditation and salaat are some ways of opening such a channel, hence the emphasis on salaat in al-quran. How else would salaat "command you" if not through such channeling?
1187 They said "O Shu'ayb, does your salaat order you that we leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please? It seems only you are the compassionate, the wise!"
Channeling is a communication between God or a spiritual being and a human, by telepathic inspiration. Channeling itself is a neutral term. There can be positive channeling from God or positive entities as above, or negative channeling from negative entities, so one should be very careful and attempt to channel only God or positive entities and reject the negative channeling.
Peace and may the love and light of the infinite Creator be with you.
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How do you know it isn't a sophisticated deception if something claims to be God and seems to say things you like? How do you know it isn't God if it says things you absolutely hate and are horrible seeming? I don't recommend these extremely foolish practices at all, because people are really inviting self deception thereby.
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Salaam,
Al-Quran itself gives an answer to that by using your inner compass/conscience (3030), mind/reasoning (1611, 1644), and real world evidence (4153). Using these 3 methods, you can always avoid deception and verify the truth.
I agree that 99% of the channeled messages will be from higher density negative entities and only 1% will be the truth from higher density positive entities or even the infinite Creator itself, but by using those 3 methods you will always be able to figure out which is which.
As far as fully conscious OBE is concerned, you don't have your physical body in that state. Instead you temporarily go into a higher density state of existence when you have an OBE, and only have your astral, mental, and spiritual bodies (just like after death) in that state, so it becomes impossible to deceive you.
You are instantly exposed to the ultimate truth as soon as you die but then it is too late to be implemented in the life that just expired. On the other hand, once you master fully conscious OBE, you get to learn the same ultimate truths which you learn after death, but this time you get a chance to go back and implement the truths in your life.
Sufis (wali Allahs) routinely have fully conscious OBE and channel higher density positive entities and the infinite Creator. In fact, anyone can do that with some practice, and experience the truth.
I leave you in the love and light of the infinite Creator.
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Thank you for the answer, I appreciate it. What is your view about your state prior to your existence in this life? You know, before you were born? It sounds like you don't die when you die, so how about before you lived?
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Salaam,
Thank you for the answer, I appreciate it. What is your view about your state prior to your existence in this life? You know, before you were born? It sounds like you don't die when you die, so how about before you lived?
It doesn't matter to me what I was before this life. In my current life my top priority and focus is on walking the path of service to others (doing good deeds, helping others) and seeking the general truths.
May the infinite Creator bless you.
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Salaam,
It doesn't matter to me what I was before this life. In my current life my top priority and focus is on walking the path of service to others (doing good deeds, helping others) and seeking the general truths.
May the infinite Creator bless you.
The reason I brought it up was because the prior state of death was compared to the latter state of death, with the implication that death is generally understood to mean non-existence, whereas if you continue to receive information/input/experience you're certainly not actually properly dead (your body may be, but you are alive, which is why I wrote that big thing earlier), and if that state prior was compared to the state after, then that implies you were alive before too, which is why I brought it up. In the view of the Qur'an though, it appears a person is properly dead when they are dead just as they didn't exist before they were created, so were not floating around somewhere like some people often propose (automatic immortality).