The best way to discover the truth!
-
Peace FreedomStands,
I know that your intentions were good, but isn't that inconsiderate and even disrespectful by going OFF TOPIC in someone else's thread? offtopic
A sincere advice would be not to assume or guess about anything. Conjecture will seriously hinder you in your quest for the truth.
Did you watch the videos I posted? Your lack of any comments about them seem to imply that you didn't, but I don't want to assume or guess, so I am asking you directly.
Contrary to what you conjectured, I did read your post and I agree with some things you wrote and I disagree with some things, but I didn't comment on it because that would be off topic offtopic
If you wanted to answer questions that I didn't ask, you could have created a new thread. If you were considerate to others, you would have the courtesy to limit your comments to the topic of this thread, and would not have gone off topic.
Agreed.
Finally, on topic for the first time in this thread. yay
What you think the "necessities" of reality are, may not be the actual "necessities" of reality.
How do you know what you claim to be the "necessities" of reality, are in fact "necessities" of reality? What is the source of your information about what "necessities" of reality are?
Agreed.
Logic has its own flaws as I outlined in my previous post.
I repeat How do you know what you claim to be "logically necessary", is in fact "logically necessary"? What is the source of your information about "what must be logically necessary"?
3030 and 1736 seem to claim otherwise.
3030 So establish yourself to the system of monotheism. It is the inclination that God has nurtured the people on. There is no changing in the creation of God. Such is the pure system, but most of the people do not know.
1737 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of; for the hearing, eyesight, and heart - all these you are responsible for.
"Intuition" or "heart" can be right also but by closing yourself off to that possibility and being dogmatic about it being "the absolute worst thing to follow", you might miss out on the truth. At least be open to the possibility of "intuition" or "heart" being right.
I am glad we have logic out of the way as being the best way to discover the truth.
I will continue to send blessings to you and everyone else because I have an idea who you and everyone else here are in reality ) Not the earthly reality but the real reality )
I know you have good intentions, but my sincere advice to you is to be considerate to others and don't go off topic in someone else's thread.
Before you again start assuming and guessing what I have read or haven't read, rest of your reply was off topic, so I am not going to comment on it even though I read it! offtopic
Please open a new thread if you wish to bring those issues to the attention of others.
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you all.
I didn't go off topic at all. Just because you don't like the response (and tell me what is wrong with anything I said), doesn't mean it is "off topic". I stayed entirely on topic. The topic is called "The best way to discover the truth!" and you asked those questions in it (even if you despised the answers, you still wrote it and I was responding to those things you wrote, it wasn't off topic, as I was also talking about the best way to discover the truth, which is thinking in the manner that I showed clearly). So nothing about what I wrote was off topic, and even now it is not off topic. Just because you didn't want to read it or that it was so lengthy doesn't mean it was off topic at all, it was completely related to what was written here and even to the things you wrote in your post, so what in the world are you talking about? Might it not be considered inconsiderate of you to not appreciate such a lengthy reply completely based on the questions you wrote and as a reply to the topic of this thread "The best way to discover the truth!". Huh?
Now "How do you know what you claim to be "logically necessary", is in fact "logically necessary"? What is the source of your information about "what must be logically necessary"?"
It shows me that you did not process what I wrote, because if you did, you would know I did not conjecture or make guesses at all and based everything I wrote on actual necessity, it isn't a matter of "how do you know it is logical necessity or necessity at all?"
This is how I know To say "something exists" and not specify, or to say "there is information" is not a GUESS, nor is it a CONJECTURE, it is speaking of something in a vague way THAT IS KNOWN AND WELL ESTABLISHED based on how it is being defined carefully. If you can not process that, and you think that "maybe there isn't information" you are being an argumentative person with no sensible basis for any such claim because "information" is being defined as "this all" and if you are saying "this all" does not exist and is not being experienced, then you are an obvious liar in that case. Do you understand that these things are OBVIOUS? They are not "guesses" when I say "information is experienced" because I am experiencing it, and if you aren't experiencing it, I wouldn't know either way, and I was very clear in my language if you took the time to notice. I call this "How do you know what you claim to be "logically necessary", is in fact "logically necessary"? What is the source of your information about "what must be logically necessary"?" kind of stuff promotion of a broken brain mentality, literally its like someone has to be to put it in modern slang "retarded" to think they can justify the statement that "there is no information".
So there are some things that can be "known" and I explained them clearly.
The whole POST was explaining why the things I am saying are only the necessary things to explain reality and why God is necessary to lead to the conclusion of this information which exists.
Not only that, but promoting following the heart is wrong and dangerous, and has had bad results. You say the Qur'an doesn't say so, the word "heart" in Qur'an is used to refer to the "mind" often and the "understanding, consciousness" and says the hearts of many people are diseased, that is basically saying they are "retards" they can not understand "hearts with which they do not understand". To ask people to just rely on that and not give them the answers is asking for big trouble.
Nothing I am saying is wrong, and I never went off topic.
So if you're a "truth seeker" then you will focus on what is necessary and known and observable and obvious and can be determined by using your mind, and you will not be able to understand any of it if your mind is "broken" or "diseased".
It is the "diseased" mind that says things like "How do we know there is anything at all?" lol how ridiculous and absurd, and they think they are being wise by saying such things? No, they are just being dumb and contentious.
or "How do we know it is necessary". I EXPLAINED THAT THE WHOLE POST WAS EXPLAINING THAT DID THAT JUST FLY OVER YOUR HEAD ENTIRELY?
I explained only what is NECESSARY for information to exist and specifically WHY and WHY it can not be any other way, such as "information creating itself" ALL OF IT WAS EXPLAINED CLEARLY.
Now tell me what you disagree with so I can adapt accordingly, but if it is something you can't possibly grasp, then don't worry about it, though you seemed somewhat intelligent before (though you also went into some ideas of "systems" which I DO NOT EVEN MENTION IN MY WRITING, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT SOME PROPOSED SYSTEM, like "the Earth revolves around the sun" or ANYTHING LIKE THAT. It is only to those things that one can reply "How do we know for certain the Earth is revolving around the sun and not some other way" I don't even GO INTO THAT, I go into only what HAS TO BE TRUE and I explain it in detail).
So "How do we know it is necessary" is insulting to ask me, because the WHOLE LONG THING I WROTE EXPLAINS WHY.
To claim "nothing can be know for certain" may seem pious to you, but it is absolutely foolish when it comes to SOME FEW THINGS, such as "there is information/stuff/something" because that is OBVIOUS AND OBSERVABLE, we are not DISTINGUISHING, if you DENY IT then you are a LIAR, it is not something which can be honestly denied, I am not saying "The sun is made out of cheese" I am saying the MOST BASIC THERE "there is stuff" "there is something" "there is information" only a completely contentious and idiotic person who is lying would deny the existence of "stuff" in the vaguest way and say "how do you know there is stuff" when they are using "stuff" even to communicate their stupid question (sorry, I don't mean you in particular, but you really must put it in your mind that some things are indeed entirely stupid to be contentious about).
Can you understand the frustration one might feel when the MOST BASIC HONEST STATEMENTS ARE MADE and they are rejected? How the most basic and vague thing like "there is stuff" can be denied? It CAN NOT BE DENIED, IT IS ONE THING WE KNOW FOR CERTAIN BECAUSE I AM SAYING "whatever at all this is, I am calling it "stuff" or "information". Are you not experiencing anything? Are you just a contentious person who would argue about something that can indeed be known without a doubt? Do you think you're some philosopher because you can say "how do we know there is anything" when you are experiencing "something" because whatever you are experiencing is being defined in the most vague way possible as "something" and no specifics about it are being made? Are you not aware how frustrating that might be to hear someone deny the existence of anything at all while they are even in it and seeing it? Certain such would be DEAF, DUMB, BLIND and a LIAR to boot.
NEXT
I did not SAY anything which can not be clearly KNOWN and is OBVIOUS if anyone uses their mind for two seconds. You would understand why God CAN NOT BE INFORMATION because I EXPLAIN IT CLEARLY WHY GOD CAN NOT BE INFORMATION, and if you think "maybe God is information of some kind" then you are IGNORING THE CLEAR DEFINITION I HAVE GIVEN FOR THE TERM AND THE EXPLANATION OF WHY IT CAN NOT BE SO.
The capitalization is for emphasis, please understand.
-
Also, please take no offense, my furious speeches crack me up, I find them very funny and I hope you can too (as they are not intended to insult you personally).
-
Peace FreedomStands,
I never take any offense, so the following is not meant to imply that. It is just an observation of mine.
-
You are making false hypotheses (putting words in my mouth that I never said or implied), and then addressing the false hypotheses. This is called strawman fallacy.
-
You are initiating ad hominem attacks on me which is another fallacy.
-
You still haven't answered my direct questions to you, other than saying things are "obvious", and "known" and "necessary".
-
You still haven't had the courtesy to do something that I requested you to do and to comment on it.
Therefore, I think it will not benefit either of us to continue this discussion, and there will be no further comments from me.
handshake
I leave you in the love and light of the infinite Creator.
-
-
Peace FreedomStands,
I never take any offense, so the following is not meant to imply that. It is just an observation of mine.
-
You are making false hypotheses (putting words in my mouth that I never said or implied), and then addressing the false hypotheses. This is called strawman fallacy.
-
You are initiating ad hominem attacks on me which is another fallacy.
-
You still haven't answered my direct questions to you, other than saying things are "obvious", and "known" and "necessary".
-
You still haven't had the courtesy to do something that I requested you to do and to comment on it.
Therefore, I think it will not benefit either of us to continue this discussion, and there will be no further comments from me.
handshake
I leave you in the love and light of the infinite Creator.
As I explained, my comments were not directed at you specifically, they were general. I actually quoted your words though directly.
No, I think you misunderstood yet again, and I'm glad you're done commenting as it is pretty disgusting to see such misunderstanding repeatedly.
I did answer your questions with the example of how information is something that can't be denied, and explained how and why. If your brain is broken and can not comprehend that in particular, then there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it (of course I may seem to you the one with the broken brain).
I do not have the same glad tidings for you as you do for me. May you come to know that I wasn't wrong at all though, and in fact that what I said was true and that you were the one being contentious about it. Allah will decide the matter between us. Also feel free to communicate with me normally in other threads, this battle need not be extended outside of this particular thread.
Even though you can't seem to derive any answers from what I've written due to what might be some form of disability, I will answer again these numbered points you want me to, and you need to have patience, though if you can no longer communicate (cat got your tongue?) in this thread to me directly, that is fine. I look forward to my further responses, and I do not look forward to your further misunderstandings.
-
-
Wow, promoting "channeling" eh? Yeah, no wonder you reject what I've written. Have patience, I'm going through your new age videos as you requested. They are long too and take time that I don't have too much of when I'm writing all these long things you hate to read of course!
-
I think the best way to discover the truth, and to get all the answers is to experience it yourself! After all it is a personal journey. Question everything, assume nothing. Find out for yourself!
You took the words right out of my mouth. Very well, very wisely said!
-
Do you believe you are a human being?
Do you believe you are a male or a female?
Do you believe you are your mind?
Do you believe you are a form-based being?
Do you believe reality must be 3 dimensional?
Do you believe your existence is linear?Answering these questions also is "off-topic"? What was the topic? Opening a gateway for Satan through channeling and out of body experiences? Gnosis through hallucination? Not reading replies? Yeah, great stuff you're promoting here. Everyone who shows up as rejecting what I've written seems to have some vile Gnostic agenda in their hand ironically.
I never mentioned any of those questions because those are the sorts of things which are conjecture, or rather they are arbitrary as you can say yes or no to them based on the definitions and none of them are necessary or eternal truths.
-
Peace fellow truth seeker Martha,
You took the words right out of my mouth. Very well, very wisely said!
Thank you for your kind comment!
Please ponder and reflect on the following signs from al-quran
3942 God seizes the souls at the time of their death; and for those that have not died, during their sleep. He then keeps those that have been overtaken by death, and He sends the others back until a predetermined time. In that are signs for a people who will think.
Do you agree the above sign refers to having an "out of body experience" by our soul, or "astral projection" during sleep? In my opinion, dreams are what the soul perceives during such an OBE while sleeping, and is one way of experiencing the reality and the truth for ourselves, especially by lucid dreams or even a fully conscious OBE.
4251 And it is not for any human being that God would speak to him, except through inspiration, or from behind a barrier, or by sending a messenger to inspire whom He wills with His permission. He is Most High, Wise.
Al-Quran was channeled to Muhammad by Gabriel with the permission of God.
297 Say "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel, then know that he has sent it down into your heart with the permission of God, authenticating what is with him, and a guide and good news for the believers."
16102 Say "The Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord with the truth, so that those who believe will be strengthened, and as a guidance and good news for those who have submitted."
Do you agree that 4251, 297, 16102 refer to "channeling" from God directly or from a messenger sent by God?
In my opinion, channeling is another way we can experience the reality and the truth for ourselves. I believe that the infinite Creator channels anyone who is open and receptive to it, directly or through positive spiritual entities. Meditation and salaat are some ways of opening such a channel, hence the emphasis on salaat in al-quran. How else would salaat "command you" if not through such channeling?
1187 They said "O Shu'ayb, does your salaat order you that we leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please? It seems only you are the compassionate, the wise!"
Channeling is a communication between God or a spiritual being and a human, by telepathic inspiration. Channeling itself is a neutral term. There can be positive channeling from God or positive entities as above, or negative channeling from negative entities, so one should be very careful and attempt to channel only God or positive entities and reject the negative channeling.
Peace and may the love and light of the infinite Creator be with you.
-
How do you know it isn't a sophisticated deception if something claims to be God and seems to say things you like? How do you know it isn't God if it says things you absolutely hate and are horrible seeming? I don't recommend these extremely foolish practices at all, because people are really inviting self deception thereby.
-
Salaam,
Al-Quran itself gives an answer to that by using your inner compass/conscience (3030), mind/reasoning (1611, 1644), and real world evidence (4153). Using these 3 methods, you can always avoid deception and verify the truth.
I agree that 99% of the channeled messages will be from higher density negative entities and only 1% will be the truth from higher density positive entities or even the infinite Creator itself, but by using those 3 methods you will always be able to figure out which is which.
As far as fully conscious OBE is concerned, you don't have your physical body in that state. Instead you temporarily go into a higher density state of existence when you have an OBE, and only have your astral, mental, and spiritual bodies (just like after death) in that state, so it becomes impossible to deceive you.
You are instantly exposed to the ultimate truth as soon as you die but then it is too late to be implemented in the life that just expired. On the other hand, once you master fully conscious OBE, you get to learn the same ultimate truths which you learn after death, but this time you get a chance to go back and implement the truths in your life.
Sufis (wali Allahs) routinely have fully conscious OBE and channel higher density positive entities and the infinite Creator. In fact, anyone can do that with some practice, and experience the truth.
I leave you in the love and light of the infinite Creator.
-
Thank you for the answer, I appreciate it. What is your view about your state prior to your existence in this life? You know, before you were born? It sounds like you don't die when you die, so how about before you lived?
-
Salaam,
Thank you for the answer, I appreciate it. What is your view about your state prior to your existence in this life? You know, before you were born? It sounds like you don't die when you die, so how about before you lived?
It doesn't matter to me what I was before this life. In my current life my top priority and focus is on walking the path of service to others (doing good deeds, helping others) and seeking the general truths.
May the infinite Creator bless you.
-
Salaam,
It doesn't matter to me what I was before this life. In my current life my top priority and focus is on walking the path of service to others (doing good deeds, helping others) and seeking the general truths.
May the infinite Creator bless you.
The reason I brought it up was because the prior state of death was compared to the latter state of death, with the implication that death is generally understood to mean non-existence, whereas if you continue to receive information/input/experience you're certainly not actually properly dead (your body may be, but you are alive, which is why I wrote that big thing earlier), and if that state prior was compared to the state after, then that implies you were alive before too, which is why I brought it up. In the view of the Qur'an though, it appears a person is properly dead when they are dead just as they didn't exist before they were created, so were not floating around somewhere like some people often propose (automatic immortality).
-
Very interesting thread, thank you
-
Very interesting thread, thank you
Did you like http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607171.msg362129#msg362129 ? Does anyone have anything to say about those posts?