The Cultural element behind words
-
Hello Truthseeker11 thank you for your thoughtful and well written comments.
I think your point about Lord of the worlds is a very good one, supported with 21107 and 12.
However, 21107 is also translated "we have sent you out of mercy from us towards the whole world".
Could the term "the whole world" simply be referring to the known world of that time?12 is also translated "Lord of the Universe" but even though God is Lord of the universe, Quran only gives examples and stories relating to the Middle East. Would the Brazilian jungle Indian tribes understand the Sura 1611 reference to olives, palm trees and grapes? Are the Middle Eastern cultural references in Quran relevant and understandable in widely different cultures? For example, in hot countries people rise at dawn, rest or sleep for a few hours in the heat of the afternoon (siesta time) and are up late into the night, because that fits in with the climate. That is the salat timings also. Cold countries have an entirely different routine and concept of time. People do not rest or sleep during the day, but are working until just before dark, they go to bed earlier at night and that is usually their only rest period during the day. Also, they typically get up later than dawn. Many Quranic verses are relevant to societies based on group cooperation and conformity but are they relevant to westetn individualistic societies? While there are universal truths in Quran as there are in all religions eg examples relating to honesty, justice, peacefulness which can be reflected on and applied in other cultures and time periods, Quran still seems to me to be a very ethnocentric revelation. It is based on historical events from a specific region of the world using the language of a specific group of people from a specific time period. For those peoples who are not familiar with the culture and language of the 7th century Quraysh tribe, and who are reliant on interpretations and translations of the Qurayshi Arabic words it was revealed in, as you say, we are dependent on using our reasoning, conscience and real world evidence to understand and verify it's content.
God says in Quran 548 ..."for each of you we have decreed different rites"
Each of you seems to be referring to Jews, Christians and the followers of Prophet Muhammed. The Gospel has the rites for the Christians, the Torah has the rites for the Jews and Quran has the rites for the followers of Prophet Muhammed. These are specific groups of people that have been given specific rites from God.In Sura 262 and 569, God tells us that Jews, Christians, converts and ANYONE ELSE who believes in God, believes in the Last Day and leads a righteous life will receive their recompense from God and will have nothing to fear, nor grieve about. Righteousness is defined in Sura 2177. This verse therefore seems to me to be the key one which is absolute across all time periods, cultures and societies. It is necessary though to know and understand the correct meaning of salat and zakat to be able to lead a righteous life. What is the correct interpretation and translation of these 2 words? Is salat a ritualised contact prayer or not? Is zakat the same as paying income tax ? is it the same as paying jizya? Why is there so much dissension over the interpretation of these two words that are fundamental to everyone's salvation?
-
In Sura 262 and 569, God tells us that Jews, Christians, converts and ANYONE ELSE who believes in God, believes in the Last Day and leads a righteous life will receive their recompense from God and will have nothing to fear, nor grieve about. Righteousness is defined in Sura 2177.
Salamun Alaikum.
Just a small correction. In Sura 262 and 569 the third criteria under the umbrella protection clause is to act righteously (amalu salehin). But 2177 defines "piety" (al-birr). These are different terms.
Per my humble understanding acting righteously (amalu salehin) has nothing to do with what one believes or what rituals one perform - this is simply about doing good work and keeping away from evil.
Regards,
Arman -
Greetings Arman thanks for your comment. I checked several translations. I noticed some use these two words interchangeably righteousness and piety. Some translate Al Birr as righteousness and taqwa as piety. Al Muttaqun is also translated as the pious.
I read one explanation that said when one if these words is mentioned it implies the other.
Another said that when these two words are used together one refers to means and the other to purpose.
2177 Al birr is translated as righteousness by Rashed Khalifa; as" piety, rightousness and every act of obedience to God" by Hilali and Khan and righteousness by world press.com2224 tabarroo wa tat tattaqoo is also translated as doing good and acting piously in some translations.
The English dictionary defines rightousness as the state if being morally sound and adhering to moral principles. Piety is defined as religious devotion and reverence.
I can see how these two words can interconnected when religious devotion is considered part of being morally sound.I am at beginner level with learning and speaking Quranic Arabic. How can I know the correct understanding when even fluent Arabic speakers appear to differ? That is the point I was making in my original post. What did the companions of Prophet Muhammed specifically understand by those words? Were there several words that meant rightousness and piety and were they interchangeable? Did one imply the other? Please can you refer me to easily understood sources that confirm these two words have entirely seperate meanings.
-
Salam Lena.
The first step is to recognize that "Salehin" and "Birr" are two separate terms. If someone is claiming they are the same thing, perhaps they understand more than the author of Qur'an who chose to use different terms?
The second step would be to check the meanings in dictionaies and Lexicons and then compare what the translators are saying.
The third and most important step would be to examine the Quranic usage of the term.
Qur'an already gives you a definition of "Al-Birr" at 2177, per my humble understanding the English word that matches this description as well as the dictionary definition of "Al-Birr" most is "Piety". If you prefer a different English word feel free to use it. Afterall the meaning that the word "piety" invoke in me may not be same as it may invoke in you.
"Amalu salehin" has not been defined as categorically in Qur'an. That implies, the conventional/dictionary meaning - which is - "acting righteously" OR "acting appropriately" is adequately representative meaning. I have found that the Quranic usage also supports this meaning.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Greetings again Arman
Are you saying that because two words are different they can't have the same meaning?
Synonyms are different terms/ words that can have the same meaning. For example expire is a different term from die but it can have the same meaning. Likewise for finish and terminate and many many others in the English language. I am not sure what you mean when you say we need to recognize they are two different terms, and therefore God would not use them to mean the same thing. Are there no different words in Arabic that can have the same meaning? Does Qurayshi Arabic have no synomyns? Or do you mean God used two different words to illustrate they had two seperate meanings. Does God use synonyms anywhere in Quran or are there no synonyms in Quran? -
Culture and language are interconnected. Anyone who has studied a second language understands that language is the vehicle of culture. It can be studied and learnt in isolation from the culture but the true depth of meaning cannot be fully understood unless one is also immersed in the culture and becomes culturally literate. So if we don't know the culture behind the Quranic words (i.e 7th century Quraysh culture) how can we understand the true meaning of Gods words in Quran? And how can we know if any of the interpretations or translations that we now have are correct? Must we rely on historical cultural sources for this knowledge?
True..
However.. God's revelation hasn't stopped in 7th century, it's actually still continuing up until today..
There's no guarantee that the Quran is 100% from God and error free..You must rely on God for any knowledge.. (and not on some item or book)
And He always answers to those who ask question, and help those who seek...
Just try.. and you shall be amazed..https//a0.muscache.com/pictures/2549932/large.jpg
-
Peace Jafar,
However.. God's revelation hasn't stopped in 7th century, it's actually still continuing up until today..
There's no guarantee that the Quran is 100% from God and error free..You must rely on God for any knowledge.. (and not on some item or book)
And He always answers to those who ask question, and help those who seek...
Just try.. and you shall be amazed..Well said bravo
I continue to be a huge fan of yours!
I can personally attest to this being true. I always rely on the infinite Creator and it has always answered me when I asked a question about anything, and unexpectedly pointed me in the right direction and helped me to discover the truth, as long as I made an effort and was receptive.
The best way to discover the truth is to experience it yourself. The infinite Creator channels anyone who is open and receptive.
May the infinite Creator bless you for all your efforts.
-
https//a0.muscache.com/pictures/2549932/large.jpg
I consider that advice pretty dangerous. Lots of silly people seem to "listen only to themselves" and are not operating that efficiently based on that strategy.
-
Greetings again Arman
Are you saying that because two words are different they can't have the same meaning?
Synonyms are different terms/ words that can have the same meaning. For example expire is a different term from die but it can have the same meaning. Likewise for finish and terminate and many many others in the English language. I am not sure what you mean when you say we need to recognize they are two different terms, and therefore God would not use them to mean the same thing. Are there no different words in Arabic that can have the same meaning? Does Qurayshi Arabic have no synomyns? Or do you mean God used two different words to illustrate they had two seperate meanings. Does God use synonyms anywhere in Quran or are there no synonyms in Quran?Salam Lena.
First of all, even if two words are synnonyms they often have finer shades of difference in meaning and usage. Take your own example - Finish and terminate. We say, "Before I finished my tea, my boss informed me that I have been terminated from my job." Now, let's rephrase - "Before I terminated my tea, my boss informed me that I have been finished from my job." Does it work?
Specifically when it comes to Qur'an, I strongly believe each word choice is significant and meaningful. There cannot be two words that are absolutely interchangable. Take it as my personal "conviction". If you do not feel inclined to accept this conclusion fell free to feel as you may.
Coming back to the terms "Salih" and "Birr" - you have righty pointed out these are very critical terms to understand the key themes of the Qur'an. Do you think that A'limul Hakim would create confusion by inconsistently using two different words to mean the same thing on such critical verses?
Let?s take a quick look at the Lane?s Lexicon. Verb Salaha is defined as
It, and he, was, or became, good, incorrupt, right, just, righteous, virtuous, or honest; it was or became, in a good, incorrupt, sound, right, or proper, state, or in a state of order;
(Source http//www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text;jsessionid=AB3579232CC24621F3F643179D01354C?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2002.02.0028%3Aroot%3DSlH%3Aentry%3DSalaHa)Whereas, Verb Barra is defined as
He was pious (Msb) he was good, just, righteous, virtuous, or honest (T, Msb) and he was true, or veracious.
(Source http//www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text;jsessionid=AB3579232CC24621F3F643179D01354C?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2002.02.0016%3Aroot%3Dbr%3Aentry%3Dbar%7Ea)Same?
Now let's focus on Quranic usage. Note carefully, in verse 262 and 569 Qur'an specifically says "who have faith in Allah, faith in the last day and act righteously." From this it is implied that "acting righteously" (amalu salehin) does not encompass "faith in Allah, faith in the last day" but rather the resulting actions which are expected to come as an outcome of such faith. Had "faith in Allah, faith in the last day" been a part of "acting righteously" it would have been redundant to mention them separately wouldn't it? ON THE OTHER HAND, "Al-Birr" as defined at 2177 clearly includes "faith in Allah, faith in the last day". Doesn't it sufficiently imply that these two terms are different?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Peace Arman Aziz,
Now let's focus on Quranic usage. Note carefully, in verse 262 and 569 Qur'an specifically says "who have faith in Allah, faith in the last day and act righteously." From this it is implied that "acting righteously" (amalu salehin) does not encompass "faith in Allah, faith in the last day" but rather the resulting actions which are expected to come as an outcome of such faith. Had "faith in Allah, faith in the last day" been a part of "acting righteously" it would have been redundant to mention them separately wouldn't it? ON THE OTHER HAND, "Al-Birr" as defined at 2177 clearly includes "faith in Allah, faith in the last day". Doesn't it sufficiently imply that these two terms are different?
Well said bravo
As a side note, I fully agree with your view that the most important thing for our spiritual progress is performing righteous acts (doing good deeds, service to others etc.) and that anyone who makes peace and performs righteous acts would be a "muslim", no matter what culture, religion or group that person belongs to. I applaud your tolerance of other people's beliefs and views, and respect your personal beliefs and views.
May the infinite Creator bless you for your efforts.
-
-
Thanks for all the comments. Truth Seeker does a Muslim also have to believe in God, specifically that there is only one such entity, and the hereafter, angels, prophets and the scriptures / Quran or do you mean that a Muslim is based on good deeds only?
Salam Lena.
I am having a discussion with ?My name is Ted? on exactly same topic here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607181.msg362669#msg362669
You need to follow through with the replies.
A more complete review of the topic from a Quranic perspective can be found in this thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607143.msg361414#msg361414
Hope this will give you some food for thought.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Peace Lena,
Thanks for all the comments. Truth Seeker does a Muslim also have to believe in God, specifically that there is only one such entity, and the hereafter, angels, prophets and the scriptures / Quran or do you mean that a Muslim is based on good deeds only?
In addition to the posts brother Arman Aziz has referenced, please take a look at my following short post which summarizes the answer to your question
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607188.msg362860#msg362860
May the infinite Creator bless you.
-
Salaam Lena,
The author of Quran left the so-called "initials" as a little help with literal interpretation of the words instead of, for example, culture bias as you say. If one learns the role they play they can interpret Quran exactly as the author meant.
Have faith