Is there a single Muslim on this whole website?
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God in the Quran clearly says you should establish regular prayer. So will you not pray as he has described in the Quran? Forget the hadiths for now just look at the Quran.
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God in the Quran clearly says you should establish regular prayer. So will you not pray as he has described in the Quran? Forget the hadiths for now just look at the Quran.
If you read my initial posts in this thread, I promote worship in the usual fashion.
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God in the Quran clearly says you should establish regular prayer. So will you not pray as he has described in the Quran? Forget the hadiths for now just look at the Quran.
Salamun Alaikum.
Of course I would, and Allah knows I do so with my utmost sincerety. I pray the way my community prays because I believe the messenger whom we specifically follow (i.e. Prophet Muhammad) taught us to pray in communitywide consistent format so that we can empathize with each other. But what I would not do is to propagate a specific form / format and frquency of "prayer" to be an indispensable requirement for one to be a muslim or for one to receive eternal salvation. Because that is simply not the teaching of Qur'an. Many among the ones who repented (alladina hadu), took their rituals as an end in itself as opposed to a means towards an end. Their state is comparable to that of a donkeys who bear the load without understanding what they bear. Many among the "Muslims" are walking the exact same path. Then will you not understand?
What is indispensable is to "establish" respect (akimus salat) for the Master of the universe through our everyday action. The ritual salat is only a ceremonial expression of that respect that helps keep us consistently reminded.
God in the Quran clearly says you should be nice to your parents, you should be nice to your neighbours (near and far), to the children of the path and so on. Do you or any of our clergy consider those to be indispensable requirement for one to be a muslim? Be aware, God in the the Qur'an also condemns the "Musalli" who repulses the orphan and do not feel the urge to feed the poor (Ref Surah 107). Which one is the indispensable requirement then?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Also, Moses wasn't really comparable to most "murderers" of this day and age. He accidentally killed someone while trying to defend someone, so that is not really quite the same, and he was concerned about the strict Egyptian laws and so ran away, teaching us that circumstances are what counts and not to blindly follow the norms of justice necessarily to our own demise. Think if he had handed himself over and been executed, what a beautiful story and a beautiful man would be lost, but that doesn't mean we should support those who torture and harm people and animals and are wanton evil criminals or the unjust in other forms like evil governments that harm people. Do you think Allah was kind to the Pharoah? Do you think the circumstances of Pharoah justified his behavior? No, he was drowned, and then he will be thrown in hell.
Islam is not some gooey new age hippy style religion, Islam is awesome.
Musa was a good man and even his killing a person on accident was his goodness in trying to defend the contentious hot head who kept getting into fights. Musa immediately prayed also, he was never bad. Iblis on the other hand took the other road of misdirected hatred and being unreasonable and not channeling it correctly, while we are supposed to hate Shaitan and his followers and be repulsed by their conduct.
Salaam,
Musa did not kill anyone. He cannot do so as per my understanding.
If he kills, then he is surely a murderer even though he is a good man.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
As mmkhan says, it does not seem that Moses killed a man but that is another false inference. There are also texts/sources which do not say that Moses ever killed a man like that, although it says Moses participated in war as commander before he was plotted against due to that they feared his rise of influence. That is when he fled. He seems to have been a powerful man physically.
Salaam
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Salaam,
Musa did not kill anyone. He cannot do so as per my understanding.
If he kills, then he is surely a murderer even though he is a good man.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanWhat is your understanding of the following
2833
He said, "My Lord! Indeed, I killed of them a man, and I fear that they will kill me.2815
And he entered the city at a time (of) inattention of its people and found therein two men fighting each other; this of his party and this of his enemy. And called him for help the one who (was) from his party against the one who (was) from his enemy, so Musa struck him with his fist and killed him. He said, "This (is) of (the) deed (of) Shaitaan. Indeed, he (is) an enemy - one who misleads clearly."Also a witness to a murder of a boy
1874
So they twain journeyed on till, when they met a lad, he slew him. (Moses) said What! Hast thou slain an innocent soul who hath slain no man? Verily thou hast done a horrid thing. (But Musa didn't hand him over to the authorities if there were any)Also asked people to kill themselves
254
And when said Musa to his people, "O my people! Indeed, you have wronged yourselves by your taking the calf. So turn in repentance to your Creator, and kill yourselves. That (is) better for you with your Creator." Then He turned towards you. Indeed He! He (is) the-returning, the Most Merciful. -
Freedom,
The passage is trying to say that Moses already tried to exhort them but he failed and says Aaron is more eloquent in speech than him.
It is a misconception that the root means kill/fight. It rather means to try to persuade/convince/exhort.
Before Moses flees he tries to convince people and they do not believe him and agrees against him, even the Children of Israel and thus he returns with these signs and show them both to the Children of Israel to gain their support plus go to Pharaoh.
Salaam
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Even if such a creature as they describe existed, I would not worship it unless forced, and I would work as I could to undermine it and destroy it if possible, even from the minds of people (and that is what I work to do too!).
What is that description of God was present in the Quran? Would you still fight such a notion? Because to you God can do whatever he wills.
Peace.
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And the Children of Israel were not told to kill themselves, obviously, but to convince themselves to change from their wicked ways. The tribes of Israel used to very adherent to the faith of Elohim/Allah, so the traditional calf story and that they were hardcore idol worshipers seems a bit farfetched, even though people tend to fall into Paganism due to lots of conjecture all the time. The visualization and materialization of God/Allah is one sign of Paganism, so it is also true for 2014.
The recurring lesson from every prophet is the distancing of oneself from materialism and rather enter the spiritual realm which is abstract rather than concrete, so then the affinity with God is also abstract. People have in all times been obsessed with rituals and rites while this is against the concept since you should not visualize God in any way and that was a lesson in the guidelines to Moses about not taking an image of anything in Heaven nor Earth and worship it, and that includes Allah of course. And the Muslims come here and fall prostrate towards a building in the desert of Arabia absolutely opposite of what the guidance said.
Same word (ل is also erroneously interpreted in the infamous 91-912 where they rather speak of trying to convince sectarian people of the errors in their reasoning and practices. Quran is primarily addressing people who wish to be emissaries and to spread the word. This message is however not coming through sufficiently in the mainstream and poor interpretations available.
Salaam
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Freedom,
The passage is trying to say that Moses already tried to exhort them but he failed and says Aaron is more eloquent in speech than him.
It is a misconception that the root means kill/fight. It rather means to try to persuade/convince/exhort.
Before Moses flees he tries to convince people and they do not believe him and agrees against him, even the Children of Israel and thus he returns with these signs and show them both to the Children of Israel to gain their support plus go to Pharaoh.
Salaam
Tries to convince people of what? The burning bush incident hadn't happened yet.
Its funny that the Qur'an would be given to people in this language where Allah would surely understand that each and every one of them would misunderstand the words being used since the way they used the words is what made their understanding and definition for those words. So what is said would have been understood as "kill" because that is how they commonly understood the word (because words work by usage generally, so if someone keeps saying "cup" when pointing to a "cup" then "cup" becomes the word for that object and is understood to refer to that object or concept, even if C+U+P means dancing upon the moon in some other system or language).
So in the case of the person who killed the boy, Moses was saying "you exhorted a boy!" and was making a big deal about that? Exhorting people was a crime punishable by death in the land of Pharoah, yet Pharoah didn't immediately kill Moses when he exhorted them?
I'm just curious, but at what age did these waves of understanding come upon you? Were you always of this understanding? Do you sometimes feel a little lonely knowing these secrets while all the rest are totally just using language in the usual fashion? I know I'd be particularly disturbed if every word I read was wrong and I had before me the task of trying to communicate how exactly its wrong.
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Salaam Freedom,
You think Moses were not enlightened already as prior to the first meeting with the Sustainer? He was strong in his faith just as his progeny. He knew the truth about the Sustainer before he met Allah. So why would he not have tried to convince people about the right ways and facts about faith just as I am at this moment trying to convey it to you.
Moses was seen as a threat because the community knew about the prophecy of Moses coming and Pharaoh took precautions against that which you probably already know, and those failed. Moses was very humble and took no space but grew anyway to a rank of respect, but not everyone liked this but the authorities saw Moses as a threat and plotted against him although Moses was warned about this and could flee.
The "waves of understanding" (I know you mean this in a rhetorical sarcastic way) came when I begun to become aware of my true self and rejected millennia of lies. I do not just outright buy an interpretation without giving it a deep analysis first. And the letter method is a result of this careful analytical way. Why do you think yourself the "mysterious" letters are there which begin several chapters and even are followed by a conjunction sometimes?
Salaam
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Why do you think yourself the "mysterious" letters are there which begin several chapters and even are followed by a conjunction sometimes?
Salaam
Can you clarify this last question for me a bit more?
Also, was Pharoah "exhorting" the babies (you mentioned the precautions Pharoah took). Was it Pharoah going around and "exhorting" them or did Pharoah have them killed? See, if the meaning of that word which was understood by the audience to mean "kill" due to common usage is made to mean "exhort" there are many times where it is used that would create some curious instances where "killing" turns into exhorting (and no one understood it like that apparently because the meanings of words and their definitions are generally based on common usage, and God certainly would have chosen a word that is not used to mean "kill" commonly unless the intention was that no one except maybe you in the future would come to understand this).
Did Moses run from being exhorted? Did Pharoah chase after Musa to exhort him? Did Pharoah threaten to exhort the Magicians?
Lets see how many times the word is used
2833
He said, "My Lord! Indeed, I killed of them a man, and I fear that they will kill me."I fear they will exhort me" ?
QTL Qatal
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=qtl
If you read all those examples, lots of funny incidences of "exhorting" will turn up.
Would it have been a big deal if Moses had killed a man? Would that have somehow shattered everything?
Oh also, you might enjoy this
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism
They also had trouble with accepting the whole killing going on in the scriptures, so they figured that the God who created matter is different from the good God, and they focused on the writings attributed to Paul which was all the spiritual stuff and anti-flesh anti-matter stuff.
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What is that description of God was present in the Quran? Would you still fight such a notion? Because to you God can do whatever he wills.
Peace.
Yep, I've said that repeatedly in my posts. That if the Qur'an said something contrary to what I am saying regarding God, I would reject those things if I could find no way around them. Luckily, no religious scripture actually says anything that really differs from what I am saying or at least it is easy to make them appear to say what I want them to, but I would not feel any obligation to the Qur'an even if it came down from the sky with wings and did a little dance with its strange long Qur'an legs. If it said "God is something bound" I would reject it, because something bound is then overpowered and weak before it, so is not what I would ever want to consider "God", and is unworthy of being feared really, because something is greater than it, and the Greatest is what should be feared, and the Greatest can not have something over it or binding it or else whatever is binding it would be greater than it, so these are just clear definitions and understandings of words. Thank you for asking though! You can ask me anything else!
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Salaam,
Musa did not kill anyone. He cannot do so as per my understanding.
If he kills, then he is surely a murderer even though he is a good man.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanCheck out my above replies too if you could. I'd like to see how you might deal with that.
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Salaam,
Yep, I've said that repeatedly in my posts. That if the Qur'an said something contrary to what I am saying regarding God, I would reject those things if I could find no way around them. Luckily, no religious scripture actually says anything that really differs from what I am saying or at least it is easy to make them appear to say what I want them to, but I would not feel any obligation to the Qur'an even if it came down from the sky with wings and did a little dance with its strange long Qur'an legs. If it said "God is something bound" I would reject it, because something bound is then overpowered and weak before it, so is not what I would ever want to consider "God", and is unworthy of being feared really, because something is greater than it, and the Greatest is what should be feared, and the Greatest can not have something over it or binding it or else whatever is binding it would be greater than it, so these are just clear definitions and understandings of words. Thank you for asking though! You can ask me anything else!
Thank you for your intellectual honesty bravo handshake
If something went against my inner compass/conscience (3030), mind/reasoning (1611, 1644), and real world evidence (4153), I would have no hesitation in rejecting it as a falsehood, even if it claims to be divinely inspired.
May the infinite Creator bless you.
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Salaam,
Thank you for your intellectual honesty bravo handshake
If something went against my inner compass/conscience (3030), mind/reasoning (1611, 1644), and real world evidence (4153), I would have no hesitation in rejecting it as a falsehood, even if it claims to be divinely inspired.
May the infinite Creator bless you.
Thank you! Sorry about any scuffle we may have had or may have in the future! Same goes to you Man of Faith!
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Freedom,
The "funny stuff" emerges because the grammar is often wrong or they have played interpretation acrobatics.
Moses had arguments with the people in Egypt and had to flee because he was perceived as a threat. There was no murdering going on.
Just like truthseeker I find that you come up with strawman tactics by saying something about Marcionism. By the way the Gospel of Marcion is the best Gospel even if it was banned and deemed heretical by the clergy.
Salaam
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Salaam,
And it is logically inconsistent that Pharaoh would have ordered all male children to be slain because Pharaoh made his sustenance upon the slave labor of the Children of Israel. It is true that Pharaoh killed newborns during a period due to the revelation of a prophecy of the coming of Moses, but this is only very brief.
The killing of male children is not the essence of the bondage in Egypt and hence you have further indications on that reasoning.
I have studied the fallacy of as kill/fight for some time and it does not add up.There is another inconsistent passage and in that it says "do not commit usury and do not kill yourself". Context wise this is very poor and either the author of the text is a very poor writer or something is wrong in interpretation. The reason is simple, it means that those who do it should exhort themselves not to do so following the same context.
And the word qatal is not used in conjunction with the magicians.
And the "command" to "kill children" is issued after that event with the signs and not while Moses is a baby, which is clear inconsistency. There is no more command to kill children because Pharaoh depended on the labor of the Children of Israel.
Salaam
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What is your understanding of the following
2833
He said, "My Lord! Indeed, I killed of them a man, and I fear that they will kill me.2815
And he entered the city at a time (of) inattention of its people and found therein two men fighting each other; this of his party and this of his enemy. And called him for help the one who (was) from his party against the one who (was) from his enemy, so Musa struck him with his fist and killed him. He said, "This (is) of (the) deed (of) Shaitaan. Indeed, he (is) an enemy - one who misleads clearly."Also a witness to a murder of a boy
1874
So they twain journeyed on till, when they met a lad, he slew him. (Moses) said What! Hast thou slain an innocent soul who hath slain no man? Verily thou hast done a horrid thing. (But Musa didn't hand him over to the authorities if there were any)Also asked people to kill themselves
254
And when said Musa to his people, "O my people! Indeed, you have wronged yourselves by your taking the calf. So turn in repentance to your Creator, and kill yourselves. That (is) better for you with your Creator." Then He turned towards you. Indeed He! He (is) the-returning, the Most Merciful.Salaam,
As per my understanding the word qatl does not mean killing or fighting.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Freedom,
The passage is trying to say that Moses already tried to exhort them but he failed and says Aaron is more eloquent in speech than him.
It is a misconception that the root means kill/fight. It rather means to try to persuade/convince/exhort.
Before Moses flees he tries to convince people and they do not believe him and agrees against him, even the Children of Israel and thus he returns with these signs and show them both to the Children of Israel to gain their support plus go to Pharaoh.
Salaam
How do you get that understanding from something which is so clear? Seems like you've already made up your mind and are twisting the words of the Quran to make them fit.