Conspiracy theories ? a Tool to search Truth or Devil's Pastime
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Peace Good logic.
I understand you and respect your choice . Of course you are entitled to do as you understand.
Thanks for your understanding GL. I respect your understanding as well.
I used to follow all rituals with utmost sincerity but I could never find out the purpose behind them. Why we have to do repeated action for certain numbers at different times? I went for umra and after one round around Kaaba I started asking myself what I am doing and what is the purpose of this ritual? I have seen many pagan rituals around me practised by people of different cultures and I was feeling I am also one of them. Though I completed umra but deep inside me I was very dissatisfied. I went for umra a second time after two years expecting that I might get the experience correctly but no same thing happened. I could not convince myself that God demands this from us.
Then I learned Quranic Arabic and started reflecting on Quran. That started changing my life. Presently I spend all possible time in studying Quran. I try my best to live by Quran and thanks to GOD I am very satisfied.
What I am saying is we are here to choose either GOD or "others"! If we choose GOD then we must believe His words ,all of it
Serving/worshipping/whatever one wants to call it... is for our benefit . GOD does not need anyone or anything,that is clear.Exactly that's what I realized that GOD does not need anything so why these rituals. Do these rituals give benefit to people. Please look at the Muslim world and see the benefits of these rituals. Remembering and loving GOD is watching his laws as per my current understanding.
We learn from Qoran that God's enemies are also enemies of His systems and His decreed laws and commands (472.
Here is the issue. What is His system? Is it the rituals or benefitting humanity and as a result giving zaka to our Nafs. Of course one is free to follow ritualistic system if it satisfies him/her.
That is how I understand the service/worship from Quran..
That's great that you find it satisfactory and its your choice. May GOD help us in choosing right path and help us in understanding His Book.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Salaam Novice,
Quran and Allah/God does not advocate any ritual such as salateh or hold a building in the deserts of Arabia holy, so you are entirely right about your gut feeling concerning your faith.
You are told by Quran and God to keep affinity and do works in God's spirit. And also every prophet who channeled such knowledge and wisdom.
Salaam
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Peace Novice.
Thank you. I appreciate your exemplary manner in which you are carrying this discussion. Well done.
Please allow me to further explain my understanding of "salat" for example,using Qoran
? What does it mean...etc..
Also what does mean?
Within the context of Qoran as a whole, I have no doubt that "Aquimi Salat" means the contact prayer to connect with GOD and cement our relationship with Him as well as feeding our spiritual self..
Of course this is my opinion.
Thanks again.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Regard God by minding your ways is the right interpretation, though.
Mind your ways is open to better phrasing. I apologize for all the criticism that I open up for with a not yet perfect translation. But it anyway means to reflect upon how one leads one's own life.
Refer to Shu'ayb, they ask him what they if they have to stop doing some wicked things if they follow his ways.
Also 'to follow' is an accepted definition by dictionaries for . Not sure why people have such problems to justify my heavy work on this. I maybe should update the Nearness and Guidance thread with the latest in advancements concerning salateh.
Salaam
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It is the biggest scam of the millennia this ritual salateh based on an innocent word. It does not have to do with connection at all.
and have to do with connection and guidance.
Salaam
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Could you interpret these verses please,according to your understanding
96-9,10Thank you.
Peace. -
Salaam good logic,
Without further deep study it looks like preventing a man from following someone in faith.
Not sure if it was meant as targeted towards me, for I am not trying to prevent anyone but only enlighten people to get their priorities right. Being aware of how one leads his or her life is much more important than blind worship, for that awareness is a kind of worship on its own. God said to Moses that the Creator is with him as long as he minds his ways. It is the deeds that show worship and not mere words, if we use the dull worship word. It is affinity and belonging with God that we seek. Worship the Creator obviously does not need, for what ego does the Creator have? No ego, just like the Creator expects its mergers to have but instead unite in itself.
That does not say we cannot love the Creator however. We love the Creator if we do the deeds that show affinity and thus show belonging. I love the Creator and I love to be in the Creator.
Have faith
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Salaam Novice,
Quran and Allah/God does not advocate any ritual such as salateh or hold a building in the deserts of Arabia holy, so you are entirely right about your gut feeling concerning your faith.
You are told by Quran and God to keep affinity and do works in God's spirit. And also every prophet who channeled such knowledge and wisdom.
Salaam
Thanks Man of Faith for your reply.
I have come to this conclusion after studying Quran in its original language. handshake I pray to GOD that we all get understanding of His straight path.Salam and God bless you.
Novice -
Good, Novice. Good. It is good that someone can verify my same stance using traditional technique and word definitions instead of only my literal letter one and come to a similar conclusion.
You should bare in mind that the root of salateh has a possible traditional definition as to follow. In salateh it becomes reflexive due to the composition of the word and suffix. It merely means 'what you follow', i.e. your path taking. It is not more complicated than that. No religious ritual.
The first three letters of the salateh word mean "follow to be" literally and the giving substance characteristics and just implying that it is thereby (on the person the aquyum assalateh is addressed towards in the context, often the reader). is actually a letter which is a compound of and because instead of entity (which is default for then it implies on characteristic ت. In other words it becomes reflexive on the person in the context about their way of being.
It does not mean connection etc.
Salaam
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Peace Novice.
Thank you. I appreciate your exemplary manner in which you are carrying this discussion. Well done.
Salaam good logic
I am glad that you like this way of discussion. In fact I don't like to discuss with those who think they are right and others are wrong. For me Quran is a living book that interacts with the reader to provide God's guidance as per reader's intentions.
Before responding to the verses you quoted please allow me to present few verses for your reflection.
2455
........
Allah has promised people who have faith in the truthfulness of the Divine Laws and who do the righteous deeds, that He will establish their authority on this earth..........556
And those who make Allah and His messenger their wali are Allah's party and will be victorious.
3139
......you are bound to prevail if you
are truly believers.These verses are promising us rule in this world if we are true believers. Now rituals are performed day and night but has Allah's promise fulfilled? Could you please reflect and then conclude why Allah's promise is not fulfilled? Why Muslim are not successful in this world despite of practicing rituals 24/7?
Muslim clergy has written books over books explaining the attributes of true believers emphasizing rituals but unfortunately they could not bring success promised by Allah in Quran.GOD bless you.
Salaam. -
Good, Novice. Good. It is good that someone can verify my same stance using traditional technique and word definitions instead of only my literal letter one and come to a similar conclusion.
You should bare in mind that the root of salateh has a possible traditional definition as to follow. In salateh it becomes reflexive due to the composition of the word and suffix. It merely means 'what you follow', i.e. your path taking. It is not more complicated than that. No religious ritual.
The first three letters of the salateh word mean "follow to be" literally and the giving substance characteristics and just implying that it is thereby (on the person the aquyum assalateh is addressed towards in the context, often the reader). is actually a letter which is a compound of and because instead of entity (which is default for then it implies on characteristic ت. In other words it becomes reflexive on the person in the context about their way of being.
It does not mean connection etc.
Salaam
Salaam Man of Faith
You are correct that salat means to follow closely. In Quran this term is used in different contexts and we are commanded to follow what is mentioned before this term (salat). You will not find any details of ritual prayer in Quran but you will find details of straight path e.g. 6151-153. All the commands refer to our relation with fellow beings. The rituals might have been introduced with sincerity or as a conspiracy but one thing for sure they do not bring success to their followers.
God bless you
Salaam. -
Peace Novice, Man of Faith
So what is the purpose of the mosque, we know the mosque is the place for information,
learning, and legal assistence. Are you saying there should be no ritual salat
conducted in the mosque? What is the purpose of ablution? Is it to follow closely?Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation,
blessing, honour, magnify, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain
attached. In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head
always overlaps the first horse?s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who
follows closely / remains attached).Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail
of an animal comes out, the rump.Have you chosen your definition to suit your personal point of view i.e., "I don't like making salat"?
God bless you both
peace
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Peace Man Of Faith.
I wanted to know your view . Nothing I say to you is directed at you nor do I want to be personal.
.
Now The reason I asked about those verses is because GOD gives us a clue towards the end of that chapter
9619The clue is in "Fasjud waktarib" i.e whoever does 969-10 do not obey him/her but" prostrate and come near" my own understanding.
( I understand it to connect ,come near your Creator
Of course this is my view.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Novice.
I understand what you are saying . The"Muslims" you are talking about are described in 835
Their Salat at the Bait were no more than a mockery and a means of repelling the people (by crowding them out). Therefore, suffer the retribution for your disbelief.
My "Islam" is different from these people. I implore my Lord to save me from "idol worship". "True Islam" to me is taking GOD seriously. surrendering to Him and following His commands . Reverencing GOD is upholding His message . I try to mean what I do/say.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salaam hawk99,
No. I "choose" the definition because I did not seek to delude myself with something the word does not stand for.
Masjed is not right either. It is no building but it refers to animate people who are obedient, not rebellious.
443 and 56 are just very imaginative attempts are diversion from what the text really says. I was investigating the two with focus on 56 a few months ago and I could see nothing which indicates a water ritual in preparation to some timed prayer ritual. You see youself how the passages begins by saying you should not lead your life with a clouded mind (for whatever reason) and then giving a variety of hints what you must do.
And if you gave the example of the horse race as a kind of sarcasm then that is only one possible example of what to use the word for. It can also be following just about anyone even reflexive on yourself, which is why the word looks like it does.
I would like doing salateh if it really was a ritual for the sake of God, but it is not like I wish to delude myself. It is just a Pagan delusion. Praying is just fine, but the reader ought to at least use the right word to refer to it.
Salaam
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good logic,
Traditional translations are very playful with the text to say the least.
Sujud does mean prostrate but means obey/respect and the next word after conjunction seems to imply something like the one you said.
I doubt the whole traditional interpretation of the chapter though.
And the phrase you quoted does not literally specify any external object, so it needs to refer to the subject of the passage(s).
Salaam
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Salaam Novice,
You are on a good progress. You are basically where I was some year ago. Just abandon the mind the lesson as I also thought back then. Aquyum assalateh merely reflexes on the subject's leading of their life. It occurs also in other instances, for example, with Shu'ayb and the people ask him if they have to stop some bad habits if they begin following his ways (in his footsteps/perception, his ل.
Have faith and may the force (of God) be with you.
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No. I "choose" the definition because I did not seek to delude myself with something the word does not stand for.
Peace Man of Faith, thank you for taking time to reply to my post.
Please give your translation of 5/6. not paraphrase, please re-read the
definition in post #35 it does include "to follow" as in horse racing "to stay close to"
or "to be in contact" also "prayer" or "contact prayer".God bless
peace
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Yes and is not stay close to "to follow" in your world, hawk99?
The contact is indirect because you follow something. In the salateh word it refers to what kind of way you make yourself follow.
If it is about Shu'ayb they ask about following him, if they have to follow every little detail they do not like.
The latest translation I attempted should be in the Nearness and Guidance thread somewhere on the forum.
I will also at some point, if God permits, go back to analyzing 56 further.
But there are too many circumstantial indications to justify a ritual.
Salaam
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Salaam hawk99
Peace Novice, Man of Faith
So what is the purpose of the mosque, we know the mosque is the place for information,
learning, and legal assistence.If we sift through available historical accounts of early Islamic period we find that Masjid-e-Nabwi was a simple walled compound without any minarets or decorations. It was used for all functions of a government. Prophet attended delegations, held meetings, watched entertainment shows, consulted companions during different circumstances etc. It was more like a community centre and seat of government. It is difficult to establish when role of a leader of community was taken over by Imam of masjids. We can only see a pattern developing over centuries. And it is still going on. Look at Talibans and ISIS doing the same i.e twisting Quranic verses to control masses for their vested interests.
Let me give you an example. Back home we used to celebrate two EIDS like all muslim world does. Then out of love and reverence for the Prophet another EID was established to celebrate his birthday. If you ask a school kid now, how many eids in Islam, answer is three. For coming generations it will be a norm to celebrate three eids. This is how rituals are established under the disguise of reverence and piety.
Are you saying there should be no ritual salat conducted in the mosque?
Rituals are developed over a long period of time and need support and power of the rulers. People are made to believe that they are doing pious acts to get close to GOD. Generally people put burden of responsibility on scholars thinking they (scholars) will be responsible for their understanding. To change these rituals you need same tools that were used to establish them.
If you understand these rituals are commanded by GOD then please follow your understanding. If your rituals are producing promised results good for you. But if not then may be its time to reflect on Quranic verses to find out why Allah's promise is not achieved. Just consider when hadith literature was canonized and when tafseers started to crop up.
What is the purpose of ablution? Is it to follow closely?
Ritual purity has been found in all cultures. Please have a look at this article. http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_purification
Is wudu(ablution) mentioned in Quran?
Is Wudu an Arabic word?
Does wujuhukum means "your faces" or "your focus/direction"?
There are so many Quranic terms whose original meanings have been changed to produce blind followers so clergy could control people's minds and rulers could continue accumulating wealth and power.@Man of Faith
Yes brother I agree with you. It is interpretation not the actual text and context.443 and 56 are just very imaginative attempts are diversion from what the text really says. I was investigating the two with focus on 56 a few months ago and I could see nothing which indicates a water ritual in preparation to some timed prayer ritual. You see yourself how the passages begins by saying you should not lead your life with a clouded mind (for whatever reason) and then giving a variety of hints what you must do.
Have you chosen your definition to suit your personal point of view i.e., "I don't like making salat"?
I am not choosing a definition to avoid any duty. I make full effort to fulfil the commands of GOD but in doing so I cannot follow blindly the traditions and practices which our elders been doing without any support from Quran.
May Allah guide us to His straight path.