Conspiracy theories ? a Tool to search Truth or Devil's Pastime
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Could you interpret these verses please,according to your understanding
96-9,10Thank you.
Peace. -
Salaam good logic,
Without further deep study it looks like preventing a man from following someone in faith.
Not sure if it was meant as targeted towards me, for I am not trying to prevent anyone but only enlighten people to get their priorities right. Being aware of how one leads his or her life is much more important than blind worship, for that awareness is a kind of worship on its own. God said to Moses that the Creator is with him as long as he minds his ways. It is the deeds that show worship and not mere words, if we use the dull worship word. It is affinity and belonging with God that we seek. Worship the Creator obviously does not need, for what ego does the Creator have? No ego, just like the Creator expects its mergers to have but instead unite in itself.
That does not say we cannot love the Creator however. We love the Creator if we do the deeds that show affinity and thus show belonging. I love the Creator and I love to be in the Creator.
Have faith
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Salaam Novice,
Quran and Allah/God does not advocate any ritual such as salateh or hold a building in the deserts of Arabia holy, so you are entirely right about your gut feeling concerning your faith.
You are told by Quran and God to keep affinity and do works in God's spirit. And also every prophet who channeled such knowledge and wisdom.
Salaam
Thanks Man of Faith for your reply.
I have come to this conclusion after studying Quran in its original language. handshake I pray to GOD that we all get understanding of His straight path.Salam and God bless you.
Novice -
Good, Novice. Good. It is good that someone can verify my same stance using traditional technique and word definitions instead of only my literal letter one and come to a similar conclusion.
You should bare in mind that the root of salateh has a possible traditional definition as to follow. In salateh it becomes reflexive due to the composition of the word and suffix. It merely means 'what you follow', i.e. your path taking. It is not more complicated than that. No religious ritual.
The first three letters of the salateh word mean "follow to be" literally and the giving substance characteristics and just implying that it is thereby (on the person the aquyum assalateh is addressed towards in the context, often the reader). is actually a letter which is a compound of and because instead of entity (which is default for then it implies on characteristic ت. In other words it becomes reflexive on the person in the context about their way of being.
It does not mean connection etc.
Salaam
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Peace Novice.
Thank you. I appreciate your exemplary manner in which you are carrying this discussion. Well done.
Salaam good logic
I am glad that you like this way of discussion. In fact I don't like to discuss with those who think they are right and others are wrong. For me Quran is a living book that interacts with the reader to provide God's guidance as per reader's intentions.
Before responding to the verses you quoted please allow me to present few verses for your reflection.
2455
........
Allah has promised people who have faith in the truthfulness of the Divine Laws and who do the righteous deeds, that He will establish their authority on this earth..........556
And those who make Allah and His messenger their wali are Allah's party and will be victorious.
3139
......you are bound to prevail if you
are truly believers.These verses are promising us rule in this world if we are true believers. Now rituals are performed day and night but has Allah's promise fulfilled? Could you please reflect and then conclude why Allah's promise is not fulfilled? Why Muslim are not successful in this world despite of practicing rituals 24/7?
Muslim clergy has written books over books explaining the attributes of true believers emphasizing rituals but unfortunately they could not bring success promised by Allah in Quran.GOD bless you.
Salaam. -
Good, Novice. Good. It is good that someone can verify my same stance using traditional technique and word definitions instead of only my literal letter one and come to a similar conclusion.
You should bare in mind that the root of salateh has a possible traditional definition as to follow. In salateh it becomes reflexive due to the composition of the word and suffix. It merely means 'what you follow', i.e. your path taking. It is not more complicated than that. No religious ritual.
The first three letters of the salateh word mean "follow to be" literally and the giving substance characteristics and just implying that it is thereby (on the person the aquyum assalateh is addressed towards in the context, often the reader). is actually a letter which is a compound of and because instead of entity (which is default for then it implies on characteristic ت. In other words it becomes reflexive on the person in the context about their way of being.
It does not mean connection etc.
Salaam
Salaam Man of Faith
You are correct that salat means to follow closely. In Quran this term is used in different contexts and we are commanded to follow what is mentioned before this term (salat). You will not find any details of ritual prayer in Quran but you will find details of straight path e.g. 6151-153. All the commands refer to our relation with fellow beings. The rituals might have been introduced with sincerity or as a conspiracy but one thing for sure they do not bring success to their followers.
God bless you
Salaam. -
Peace Novice, Man of Faith
So what is the purpose of the mosque, we know the mosque is the place for information,
learning, and legal assistence. Are you saying there should be no ritual salat
conducted in the mosque? What is the purpose of ablution? Is it to follow closely?Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation,
blessing, honour, magnify, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain
attached. In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head
always overlaps the first horse?s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who
follows closely / remains attached).Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail
of an animal comes out, the rump.Have you chosen your definition to suit your personal point of view i.e., "I don't like making salat"?
God bless you both
peace
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Peace Man Of Faith.
I wanted to know your view . Nothing I say to you is directed at you nor do I want to be personal.
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Now The reason I asked about those verses is because GOD gives us a clue towards the end of that chapter
9619The clue is in "Fasjud waktarib" i.e whoever does 969-10 do not obey him/her but" prostrate and come near" my own understanding.
( I understand it to connect ,come near your Creator
Of course this is my view.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Novice.
I understand what you are saying . The"Muslims" you are talking about are described in 835
Their Salat at the Bait were no more than a mockery and a means of repelling the people (by crowding them out). Therefore, suffer the retribution for your disbelief.
My "Islam" is different from these people. I implore my Lord to save me from "idol worship". "True Islam" to me is taking GOD seriously. surrendering to Him and following His commands . Reverencing GOD is upholding His message . I try to mean what I do/say.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salaam hawk99,
No. I "choose" the definition because I did not seek to delude myself with something the word does not stand for.
Masjed is not right either. It is no building but it refers to animate people who are obedient, not rebellious.
443 and 56 are just very imaginative attempts are diversion from what the text really says. I was investigating the two with focus on 56 a few months ago and I could see nothing which indicates a water ritual in preparation to some timed prayer ritual. You see youself how the passages begins by saying you should not lead your life with a clouded mind (for whatever reason) and then giving a variety of hints what you must do.
And if you gave the example of the horse race as a kind of sarcasm then that is only one possible example of what to use the word for. It can also be following just about anyone even reflexive on yourself, which is why the word looks like it does.
I would like doing salateh if it really was a ritual for the sake of God, but it is not like I wish to delude myself. It is just a Pagan delusion. Praying is just fine, but the reader ought to at least use the right word to refer to it.
Salaam
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good logic,
Traditional translations are very playful with the text to say the least.
Sujud does mean prostrate but means obey/respect and the next word after conjunction seems to imply something like the one you said.
I doubt the whole traditional interpretation of the chapter though.
And the phrase you quoted does not literally specify any external object, so it needs to refer to the subject of the passage(s).
Salaam
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Salaam Novice,
You are on a good progress. You are basically where I was some year ago. Just abandon the mind the lesson as I also thought back then. Aquyum assalateh merely reflexes on the subject's leading of their life. It occurs also in other instances, for example, with Shu'ayb and the people ask him if they have to stop some bad habits if they begin following his ways (in his footsteps/perception, his ل.
Have faith and may the force (of God) be with you.
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No. I "choose" the definition because I did not seek to delude myself with something the word does not stand for.
Peace Man of Faith, thank you for taking time to reply to my post.
Please give your translation of 5/6. not paraphrase, please re-read the
definition in post #35 it does include "to follow" as in horse racing "to stay close to"
or "to be in contact" also "prayer" or "contact prayer".God bless
peace
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Yes and is not stay close to "to follow" in your world, hawk99?
The contact is indirect because you follow something. In the salateh word it refers to what kind of way you make yourself follow.
If it is about Shu'ayb they ask about following him, if they have to follow every little detail they do not like.
The latest translation I attempted should be in the Nearness and Guidance thread somewhere on the forum.
I will also at some point, if God permits, go back to analyzing 56 further.
But there are too many circumstantial indications to justify a ritual.
Salaam
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Salaam hawk99
Peace Novice, Man of Faith
So what is the purpose of the mosque, we know the mosque is the place for information,
learning, and legal assistence.If we sift through available historical accounts of early Islamic period we find that Masjid-e-Nabwi was a simple walled compound without any minarets or decorations. It was used for all functions of a government. Prophet attended delegations, held meetings, watched entertainment shows, consulted companions during different circumstances etc. It was more like a community centre and seat of government. It is difficult to establish when role of a leader of community was taken over by Imam of masjids. We can only see a pattern developing over centuries. And it is still going on. Look at Talibans and ISIS doing the same i.e twisting Quranic verses to control masses for their vested interests.
Let me give you an example. Back home we used to celebrate two EIDS like all muslim world does. Then out of love and reverence for the Prophet another EID was established to celebrate his birthday. If you ask a school kid now, how many eids in Islam, answer is three. For coming generations it will be a norm to celebrate three eids. This is how rituals are established under the disguise of reverence and piety.
Are you saying there should be no ritual salat conducted in the mosque?
Rituals are developed over a long period of time and need support and power of the rulers. People are made to believe that they are doing pious acts to get close to GOD. Generally people put burden of responsibility on scholars thinking they (scholars) will be responsible for their understanding. To change these rituals you need same tools that were used to establish them.
If you understand these rituals are commanded by GOD then please follow your understanding. If your rituals are producing promised results good for you. But if not then may be its time to reflect on Quranic verses to find out why Allah's promise is not achieved. Just consider when hadith literature was canonized and when tafseers started to crop up.
What is the purpose of ablution? Is it to follow closely?
Ritual purity has been found in all cultures. Please have a look at this article. http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_purification
Is wudu(ablution) mentioned in Quran?
Is Wudu an Arabic word?
Does wujuhukum means "your faces" or "your focus/direction"?
There are so many Quranic terms whose original meanings have been changed to produce blind followers so clergy could control people's minds and rulers could continue accumulating wealth and power.@Man of Faith
Yes brother I agree with you. It is interpretation not the actual text and context.443 and 56 are just very imaginative attempts are diversion from what the text really says. I was investigating the two with focus on 56 a few months ago and I could see nothing which indicates a water ritual in preparation to some timed prayer ritual. You see yourself how the passages begins by saying you should not lead your life with a clouded mind (for whatever reason) and then giving a variety of hints what you must do.
Have you chosen your definition to suit your personal point of view i.e., "I don't like making salat"?
I am not choosing a definition to avoid any duty. I make full effort to fulfil the commands of GOD but in doing so I cannot follow blindly the traditions and practices which our elders been doing without any support from Quran.
May Allah guide us to His straight path.
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Peace Novice.
I understand what you are saying . The"Muslims" you are talking about are described in 835
Their Salat at the Bait were no more than a mockery and a means of repelling the people (by crowding them out). Therefore, suffer the retribution for your disbelief.
My "Islam" is different from these people. I implore my Lord to save me from "idol worship". "True Islam" to me is taking GOD seriously. surrendering to Him and following His commands . Reverencing GOD is upholding His message . I try to mean what I do/say.
Salaam good logic
Thanks for your kind reply. No disagreement here handshake
Surrendering to GOD and following His commands is of essence and to find out what He has commanded we must try to follow Quran without any twisted interpretations. I try me best to do the same but I avoid following blindly as per 1736God bless you.
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Salaam Novice,
You are on a good progress. You are basically where I was some year ago. Just abandon the mind the lesson as I also thought back then. Aquyum assalateh merely reflexes on the subject's leading of their life. It occurs also in other instances, for example, with Shu'ayb and the people ask him if they have to stop some bad habits if they begin following his ways (in his footsteps/perception, his ل.
Have faith and may the force (of God) be with you.
Salaam Man of Faith
Thanks for your encouragement. I try to follow GOD's commands as given in Quran without following blindly anyone as commanded in 1736. It is a pleasure to meet you. handshake
GOD bless you.
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Thanks for your reply Man of Faith.
Yes and is not stay close to "to follow" in your world, hawk99?
I already said "to follow" and "stay close" please re-read below.
Peace Man of Faith, thank you for taking time to reply to my post.
Please give your translation of 5/6. not paraphrase, please re-read the
definition in post #35 it does include "to follow" as in horse racing "to stay close to"
or "to be in contact" also "prayer" or "contact prayer".The contact is indirect because you follow something. In the salateh word it refers to what kind of way you make yourself follow.
If it is about Shu'ayb they ask about following him, if they have to follow every little detail they do not like.
No, I was not referring to Shu'ayb. nope
I will also at some point, if God permits, go back to analyzing 56 further.
But there are too many circumstantial indications to justify a ritual.
IMHO, maybe you should refrain from conclusions until you have a proper translation
of the ayats in question, no offense intended. You have not supported your new ideas
well, you also have shown no evidence to support such words or ideas, all because
"you get nothing out of making salat" so you begin to twist the words of Allah to
satisfy your ego? It is a fact that Islam has rituals, to conclude otherwise is delusional.May Allah bless your endeavors
peace
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Salaam hawk99
Please provide proof of your claim that there was no ritual salat.
I did not claim there was no ritual salat rather I said rituals are made over time to achieve certain goals. Could you please provide proof that there was ritual salat?
By your own admission salat existed like the eid existed.
How does existence of eid proves salat existed?
Again, what is the purpose of ablution?
I could not find ablution in Quran. Please help me finding it.
Salat is a devotional act of the heart, some feel it, some do not, If you do not feel the
need then abstain from salat, but be honest about it, and say "you" get nothing
from it, or produce prohibitions against making salat.It is not the command of salat but the definition of salat we are discussing. Does Quran give us any details of ritual salat? On the other hand context of a verse tells us how to establish salat commanded therein.
May Allah help us following His commands.
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from Hawk99 Salat is a devotional act of the heart, some feel it,
some do not, If you do not feel the need then abstain from salat, but be honest about it,
and say "you" get nothing from it, or produce prohibitions against making salat.It is not the command of salat but the definition of salat we are discussing. Does Quran give us any details of ritual salat? On the other hand context of a verse tells us how to establish salat commanded therein.
If salat has no benefit for you that's fine by me. handshake
God bless
peace