Why can't we see God?
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I've explained this in detail here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607171.msg362129#msg362129
You will never see Allah, because if you "see" anything that is "information" (that which informs), and all "information" (visual, auditory, sensory, or even conceptual, and thoughts), are created by Allah.
Allah is not made out of information at all, so is non-information, not a creation of any kind, literally in the image of "Nothing" not empty space, not blackness, not whiteness, nothing at all, no dimensions, and we are information which Allah creates and "encompasses" there is no "space" or "out there".
Mujahid
Maybe it's telling u that all that u know is essentially nothing because there's nothing at the end of it allFreedomStands
well yes
Allah is like nothing literally
non-information
the throne is information, but "nothing" is on itMujahid That's one way of looking at it
FreedomStands
and everywhere
well its what the Qur'an makes kind of clear even
with the statement
"SubhanAllah!" "Void is Allah" "Allah is like nothing" or "Nothing is Allah"
and then
Allah said "you can not see me" or "you will not see me"
because there is nothing to see lol anything seen would be information aka creation
but then
showed what Allah is
by annihilating the mountain
making the mountain become nothing
atomizing it
into oblivionMujahid Yeah interesting
FreedomStands
and then Musa fainted
but Musa
fainting even
was showing what Allah is
because Musa became unconscious, receiving no information
which is called "returning to Allah"
that's why it says when you die
and when you sleep
which is ceasing to "exist" "ceasing to receive any data"Mujahid
Good thoughtsFreedomStands
when its a dreamless sleep
then you "return to Allah"
and the entire thing is "skipped"Mujahid Yeah
FreedomStands
because you can not experience "non information"
there is nothing to experience
so the next thing you know is informationMujahid Yes
FreedomStands
so that is why death is skipped and no matter "how long" we'll only know when we exist again
then MusaMujahid True
FreedomStands
7143
When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When his senses recovered he said "Nothing are you! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe."woke up
and Allah made him say or it was said by him
"subhanaka tubtu ilayka waana awwalu almu/mineena"
the first thing he said
"Nothing are you!"
and then said
he now believes
he is the first of the believers
meaning he finally understood
because he had been asking to see Allah
and then this message is confirmed
throughout the history even in the New Testament even in the Vedas and Bhagavad Gita
and Buddhism and everything
same thingMujahid I have to see that phrase again before making any comments tho rest I understand
FreedomStands
Allah is not made of information, makes all information
sure
you'll find
when carefully analyzed
Subhan means void
nothingMujahid Yeah will have a look
FreedomStands
so people say it means "Glory Be To God From what they attribute"
but really it just means Void is God, or Nothing is God
entirely "unique" in that sense
because everything is "information"
and Allah is the One that isn't
which can only be OneMujahid
How'd u come to that tho?
The void thing
I want to know the processFreedomStands
the void thing is the actual definition of the word lolMujahid
Is it?FreedomStands
yes
I didnt make that up lol
or make it up like Man of Faith
its the real definition of the word
but people shy around it because it seems weird
so they give it longer meanings like "devoid of what they attribute"Mujahid Void not glory?
FreedomStands
no it doesn't mean glory at all
nothing at all connected to gloryMujahid Free from what they attribute comes later
FreedomStands
I know but they say often that is the meaning of "Void is Allah" but I will go find you the definition so you know it
"Like he said, the origin for the word is sabh, voidness, or tasbeeh, making something void.
This would render the term Subhan?allah to mean Allah is void"Mujahid
It's not in the subhan etc just um well I need to look at it I'm unsure if it is what u say it i
Who says that?FreedomStands
well despite that, and you'll find what I say is real etymologyMujahid
Like the quote above?FreedomStands
the quote is from a normal website explaining it I can find many more, but this website is http//9dozen.wordpress.com/2008/11/17/s...s-meaning/
but its the real etymology of sabhMujahid
I'll look into it for myself thanks tho it's interestinghttps//books.google.ca/books?id=EBBDD_q...id&f=false
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasbih
Mujahid
Ok ok u know I can use the Internet right?
I will when I'm on the pc
FreedomStands
haha ok
anyway
besides just it actually saying that
its also the only logical thing
as I've explained in detail why its necessaryMujahid Yeah I know
FreedomStands
in the things long things you never take in...
and thenMujahid Lol
FreedomStands
haha
and also
besides that its like super important
in order to eschew all idolatries of the mind
to realize Allah is the Annihilation (meaning of Nirvana even)
Like Death
that we really are a "Death Cult" lolMujahid Great now we're nihilists
FreedomStands
but also that Allah isn't "just nothing" because "just nothing" can't do anything, Allah has the power to create things
through his "Word" which greeks called Logos and Hindus called Vac
it just refers to God's creative power
in Japan its called Musubi
sometimes its called Shakti
in India
and what God creates, instantly and out of nothing, are what I've described which is just "anything" I call it all "information"
"that which informs"
"is made known" first to Allah of course, then to all the "experiencers" whichever it is specifically made for and as
to be part of their experience
Allah encompasses all visionsMujahid Yes
FreedomStands
but no visions can encompass Allah6103
No human vision can encompass Him, whereas He encompasses all vision for He alone is unfathomable, all-aware.meaning no information
and Allah's power is information creation and destruction and creationMujahid Uve got a really interesting thing here tho
FreedomStands
moment to moment the moment just before is no more so destroyed
yeah see!
trying to tell these people lolMujahid It generally flows well too
FreedomStands
and I didnt make any of it up
its not some weird theory its from all the scriptures
let me add
since people confuse the metaphor of "light"
they don't realize why that metaphor is used
not only is "light" used in two senses often as "knowledge" and "that which means manifest/seen/known"
but besides that
even real physical light is invisible
and is only known by what it is reflected on
but in the Qur'an it was used only as a metaphor
and in the Bible
"God who is has never been seen and can not be seen living in unapproachable "light" "
doesn't mean like a sun
light itself means knowledge but besides that actual light (and these are just metaphors but the reason light as a metaphor is even used) is because you can't see it
it fills a room but the room appears emptyMujahid Yeah
FreedomStands
you only know of its presence by what it reflects on or makes seen
and Allah literally is "what makes anything seen"
as in creating the informationMujahid Yeah makes sense
FreedomStands
in Egypt, Allah was known as Amun (meaning Unseen, Hidden), who they also said is "like nothing, without form, without body, pure" and they attached the other name "Ra"
Ra means "manifest" or really "what makes meanifest" because it was associated with light
and it was believed by ancient people that the "eyes produce light"
and so the sun was thought of as a kind of "eye"
but in a metaphorical sense
what God "looks upon" is what "is"
that is "information" "what god is informed of"Mujahid V interesting thanks
FreedomStands
(understanding this is Allah's favor to you, and us, completely given without any reason or based in any conditions because Allah is unbound and entirely free, so the goodness from Allah is given entirely without basis, completely free, unconditional, unconditioned, auspiciousness which is the meaning also of the word Shiva)
but its not that there is anything existing there first
Allah creates it
and the Egyptians understood this
and worshipped Allah
even in the same way
as did the Sumerians
even holding their hands
the same way
they have statues of "devotees" and they are doing all the poses
our religion is very old (and is one religion)
"Relinquishing all ideas of righteousness, Surrender (saranam) unto Me ALONE/EXCLUSIVELY (ekam). I will deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not despair." Bhagavad Gita 1866(ekam meaning One Ultimate there can never be two unindividuated because to have two requires individuation only information can be distinguished and can be two and God is not made of information and the total lack of all information, annihilation, is One)
319
Lo! religion with Allah (is) the Surrender (to His Will and Guidance). Those who (formerly) received the Scripture differed only after knowledge came unto them, through transgression among themselves. Whoso disbelieveth the revelations of Allah (will find that) lo! Allah is swift at reckoning.383
Do they seek, perchance, a religion other than in God, although it is unto Him that whatever is in the heavens and on earth surrenders itself, willingly or unwillingly, and unto Him all must return?384
Say "We believe in God, and in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, and that which has been bestowed upon Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and their descendants, and that which has been vouchsafed by their Sustainer unto Moses and Jesus and all the prophets we make no distinction between any of them. And unto Him do we surrender ourselves."385
And whoever desires a religion other than the Surrender, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.933
It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the people of Shirk may detest (it).and its all the religions
everywhere in the world the same message is there
but people don't lookMujahid
Not sure if the positions are due to something we have to do
Usually there are a lot of simalritues due to human things etc
Because we take on things usually the samish way
As in respect
Most cultures consider bowingFreedomStands
yeah interesting, but I think they are just symbolic meditative postures, to remind people of different things, originally the "hands to the ears" was meaning "I hear" and then the hand thing on us means "obedience" and this is not me making it up this is historically known
as the historical postures which symbolized "humility"
"obedience
so its "I hear, and I obey"Mujahid Yeah I agree
FreedomStands and then we recite whatever, then we bow, and they all bow across the world, and all did wudu in the same way
they all used to keep ritual purity which is now taken away from them
it was super important to them
well they happened to do it in the exact same way across the world56
O ye who believe! When ye rise up for performing worship, wash you faces, and your hands up to the elbows, and lightly rub your heads and (wash) your feet up to the ankles. And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet (toilet), or ye have had sexual contact, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it (the clean dirt or sand). Allah would not place a burden on you, but He would purify you and would perfect His grace upon you, that ye may give thanks. -
I just wanna know that if we can not use the information given to us to try and attempt knowing the nature of God, and we cant put him physically. Then why God himself explained about his nature with giving examples of physical objects/references? Face is one example, yes he may not have a face like us but still does he have what is characterized as face in terms of what is face meant for?
Then there are references to the word throne in many many verses and yet again God gives examples to us using the physical objects we see.117 He is the One who has created the heavens and the earth in six days, and His Throne was upon the water; so as to test who from among you works the best. And when you say ?You will be resurrected after the death,? those who have rejected say ?This is but clear magic!?
103 Your Lord is God who has created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He settled upon the Throne; He manages all affairs. There is no intercessor except after His permission. Such is God your Lord, so serve Him. Would you not remember?
2255 ? 2261
the heavens and the earth. Who will intercede with Him except with His permission? He knows their present and their future, and they do not have any of His knowledge except for what He wishes. His Throne encompasses all of the heavens and the earth and it is easy for Him to preserve them. He is the Most High, the Great."754 Your Lord is God who has created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He settled upon the Throne.
I would like to know the meaning of throne with respect to water, encompasses all heavens and earth, settling upon throne.
All of above is PHYSICAL to me unless He just uses these terms to explain us, yet God can not be contained within his own creation.
Cheers
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Salaam,
I am not sure, but may be because Allah is energy or a type of energy, so that's why we can't see Allah.
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If you can see your hand when you raise your it then you have seen God.
That does not mean God is physical, but the visual illusion that you see is formed from the "force field" that is God. God sustains it like a kind of platform.
Salaam
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If you can see your hand when you raise your it then you have seen God.
That does not mean God is physical, but the visual illusion that you see is formed from the "force field" that is God. God sustains it like a kind of platform.
Salaam
I just raised my hand and started imagining myself to see God. I don't know why that made me laugh though. Lol. But I agree with the believe that God is everywhere. I also believe the same, and Quran implies this in many verses.
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The raise your hand statement is meant as a little humorous.
Indeed God has no form nor is restricted to time or space, so God is ultimately omnipresent and part of every location at the same time, and God's "force field" is what forms the material illusion that you see and which your raised hand is part of. It is not wrong to have a pantheistic perception of God although I prefer to erase the traditional theism as inaccurate.
Salaam
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If you can see your hand when you raise your it then you have seen God.
I hope you could stop from telling such thing. Why you don't seem to have fear of Allah?
Remember this verse.
(2765) Say "None in the heavens and the earth knows the unseen except Allah.
And they do not perceive when they will be resurrected."And these verses.
(6944) Now if he had dared to attribute some sayings unto Us,
(6945) We would indeed have seized him by his right hand,
(6946) and would indeed have cut his life-vein
(6947) and none of you could have saved him.
(694 And, verily, this is a reminder to all the God-conscious.
So be careful.
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The raise your hand statement is meant as a little humorous.
Indeed God has no form nor is restricted to time or space, so God is ultimately omnipresent and part of every location at the same time, and God's "force field" is what forms the material illusion that you see and which your raised hand is part of. It is not wrong to have a pantheistic perception of God although I prefer to erase the traditional theism as inaccurate.
Salaam
That's how I feel too, but I am never sure. So, I just pray to God to guide me always if I am ever wrong as God knows the best. I am not sure about pantheistic though. Yes, God is part of universe, but God is beyond that, imo.
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Peace
C'mon folks you can't see Allah, and if you have or can, you either suffer from
misinformation or a mental condition.7/143 And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said,
"My Lord, show me that I may look at You." said, "You will not see Me,
but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me." But when
his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious.
And when he awoke, he said, "Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and
I am the first of the believers."God bless
peace
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Finding,
God is the existence and the only permanently and indefinitely existing and only those who merge with the same consciousness will continue to exist in God. What you see is a mere illusion which does not really exist but is projected by the "force" of God.
The error people make is that they force God to be a separate image due to some Pagan ideology about gods while we actually are supposed to be merged in that consciousness and so to say co-exist in it. It is not idolatry because you acknowledge that it is ultimately the only real existence and you yourself only alone exist in the flesh/illusion. You are basically nothing alone. You seek to exist in God directly by sharing affinity and thus merging.
Salaam
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Hawk99,
Exactly, Moses saw Allah through the flesh/illusion and just like the parable of raising the hand like I wrote to 'Finding'. A person with realization does not need more than the raised hand. And Moses apologize quickly afterwards.
Salaam
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Because I have nothing to fear from Allah, JavaLatte.
And that idea of a translation and interpretation you gave contradicts a lot of basic logic. If that was true you could not even interpret Quran nor know nothing. Besides even mainstream translations say what I say to an extent. God is omnipresent.
Salaam
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Exactly, Moses saw Allah through the flesh/illusion and just like the parable of raising the hand like
I wrote to 'Finding'. A person with realization does not need more than the raised hand. And Moses
apologize quickly afterwards.Peace Man of Faith, thank you for your reply.
Moses did not see Allah nope please re-read the ayat. Has your comprehension failed you?
7/143 And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said,
"My Lord, show me that I may look at You." said, "You will not see Me,
but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me." But when
his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious.
And when he awoke, he said, "Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and
I am the first of the believers."The mountain did not remain in place = no see.
God bless
peace
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I would fear Allah instead if I were you, JavaLatte, in trying to censor someone. It might be that you are deluded and I come with something that you cannot accept.
Salaam
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Hawk99,
He asked for a sign and he got it quite literally. He saw the Sustainer through the expression just like we have seen the Sustainer as soon as we see ourselves or someone else.
The message in that shaking mountain is that the Sustainer cannot be seen visually, but if you see any expression of the Sustainer then you have seen that. I gave you the parable of the hand that if you also see that you have seen an expression of the Sustainer. And the Sustainer sustains your hand or that mountain with its own force, so it is not factually wrong to say you have seen the Sustainer, because you have seen an expression.
So no, my comprehension has not failed me. And I think you should stop taking things too literally or expect the Sustainer to be some kind of image.
The lesson is that the Sustainer is omnipresent and has control over the flesh just like if it was part of its own body, because all matter in the universe is just formed out of its force and is only like light or a kind of energy if it had no form/guise at all.
Salaam
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MoF, I think it is you who cannot accept that you can't see Allah.
My suggestion to you is... you should not learn the truth from movies. nope
JavaLatte, MoF is trying to figure out what he can, using the scripture, real world vision, intuition, and common sense. Yes his ideas may sound far out of the ordinary at times, but then, in my case at least, I try to keep an open mind, since he did very well answer some of my other queries which I had for a while inside.
Peace.
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Peace FindingRightPath,
That's how I feel too, but I am never sure. So, I just pray to God to guide me always if I am ever wrong as God knows the best. I am not sure about pantheistic though. Yes, God is part of universe, but God is beyond that, imo.
Man of Faith is wrong when he gives a pantheistic vision of the infinite Creator.
I agree that pantheism is incorrect. Instead I believe in panentheism which is supported by al-quran. Please see the following for difference between the two
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607118.msg361668#msg361668
I think you meant to say "universe is part of God" instead of the other way around in red. I agree that all matter is a tiny part of the infinite Creator and the infinite Creator is also beyond that.
Whenever you see any form of matter you see a physical manifestation of a tiny part of the infinite Creator, so you see a part of the infinite Creator but you cannot see the infinite Creator in its entirety.
Having said that, I am going to say something very controversial that I don't think 7143 refers to seeing the infinite Creator! That is why hawk put "Allah" in brackets.
7143 So when Moses came to our appointed time, and his Lord spoke to him, he said "My Lord, let me look upon you." He said "You will not see Me, but look upon the mountain, if it stays in its place then you will see Me." So when his Lord revealed Himself to the mountain, He caused it to crumble; thus Moses fell unconscious. When he awoke, he said "Glory to You, I repent to You and I am the first of those who believe."
Hmm .... Moses came to OUR (first person) appointed time and then HIS LORD (third person) spoke to him???? Who is the first person "OUR"?
Something is amiss in the Arabic!
May the infinite Creator bless you.
