Why can't we see God?
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The raise your hand statement is meant as a little humorous.
Indeed God has no form nor is restricted to time or space, so God is ultimately omnipresent and part of every location at the same time, and God's "force field" is what forms the material illusion that you see and which your raised hand is part of. It is not wrong to have a pantheistic perception of God although I prefer to erase the traditional theism as inaccurate.
Salaam
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If you can see your hand when you raise your it then you have seen God.
I hope you could stop from telling such thing. Why you don't seem to have fear of Allah?
Remember this verse.
(2765) Say "None in the heavens and the earth knows the unseen except Allah.
And they do not perceive when they will be resurrected."And these verses.
(6944) Now if he had dared to attribute some sayings unto Us,
(6945) We would indeed have seized him by his right hand,
(6946) and would indeed have cut his life-vein
(6947) and none of you could have saved him.
(694 And, verily, this is a reminder to all the God-conscious.
So be careful.
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The raise your hand statement is meant as a little humorous.
Indeed God has no form nor is restricted to time or space, so God is ultimately omnipresent and part of every location at the same time, and God's "force field" is what forms the material illusion that you see and which your raised hand is part of. It is not wrong to have a pantheistic perception of God although I prefer to erase the traditional theism as inaccurate.
Salaam
That's how I feel too, but I am never sure. So, I just pray to God to guide me always if I am ever wrong as God knows the best. I am not sure about pantheistic though. Yes, God is part of universe, but God is beyond that, imo.
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Peace
C'mon folks you can't see Allah, and if you have or can, you either suffer from
misinformation or a mental condition.7/143 And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said,
"My Lord, show me that I may look at You." said, "You will not see Me,
but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me." But when
his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious.
And when he awoke, he said, "Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and
I am the first of the believers."God bless
peace
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Finding,
God is the existence and the only permanently and indefinitely existing and only those who merge with the same consciousness will continue to exist in God. What you see is a mere illusion which does not really exist but is projected by the "force" of God.
The error people make is that they force God to be a separate image due to some Pagan ideology about gods while we actually are supposed to be merged in that consciousness and so to say co-exist in it. It is not idolatry because you acknowledge that it is ultimately the only real existence and you yourself only alone exist in the flesh/illusion. You are basically nothing alone. You seek to exist in God directly by sharing affinity and thus merging.
Salaam
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Hawk99,
Exactly, Moses saw Allah through the flesh/illusion and just like the parable of raising the hand like I wrote to 'Finding'. A person with realization does not need more than the raised hand. And Moses apologize quickly afterwards.
Salaam
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Because I have nothing to fear from Allah, JavaLatte.
And that idea of a translation and interpretation you gave contradicts a lot of basic logic. If that was true you could not even interpret Quran nor know nothing. Besides even mainstream translations say what I say to an extent. God is omnipresent.
Salaam
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Exactly, Moses saw Allah through the flesh/illusion and just like the parable of raising the hand like
I wrote to 'Finding'. A person with realization does not need more than the raised hand. And Moses
apologize quickly afterwards.Peace Man of Faith, thank you for your reply.
Moses did not see Allah nope please re-read the ayat. Has your comprehension failed you?
7/143 And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said,
"My Lord, show me that I may look at You." said, "You will not see Me,
but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me." But when
his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious.
And when he awoke, he said, "Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and
I am the first of the believers."The mountain did not remain in place = no see.
God bless
peace
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I would fear Allah instead if I were you, JavaLatte, in trying to censor someone. It might be that you are deluded and I come with something that you cannot accept.
Salaam
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Hawk99,
He asked for a sign and he got it quite literally. He saw the Sustainer through the expression just like we have seen the Sustainer as soon as we see ourselves or someone else.
The message in that shaking mountain is that the Sustainer cannot be seen visually, but if you see any expression of the Sustainer then you have seen that. I gave you the parable of the hand that if you also see that you have seen an expression of the Sustainer. And the Sustainer sustains your hand or that mountain with its own force, so it is not factually wrong to say you have seen the Sustainer, because you have seen an expression.
So no, my comprehension has not failed me. And I think you should stop taking things too literally or expect the Sustainer to be some kind of image.
The lesson is that the Sustainer is omnipresent and has control over the flesh just like if it was part of its own body, because all matter in the universe is just formed out of its force and is only like light or a kind of energy if it had no form/guise at all.
Salaam
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MoF, I think it is you who cannot accept that you can't see Allah.
My suggestion to you is... you should not learn the truth from movies. nope
JavaLatte, MoF is trying to figure out what he can, using the scripture, real world vision, intuition, and common sense. Yes his ideas may sound far out of the ordinary at times, but then, in my case at least, I try to keep an open mind, since he did very well answer some of my other queries which I had for a while inside.
Peace.
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Peace FindingRightPath,
That's how I feel too, but I am never sure. So, I just pray to God to guide me always if I am ever wrong as God knows the best. I am not sure about pantheistic though. Yes, God is part of universe, but God is beyond that, imo.
Man of Faith is wrong when he gives a pantheistic vision of the infinite Creator.
I agree that pantheism is incorrect. Instead I believe in panentheism which is supported by al-quran. Please see the following for difference between the two
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607118.msg361668#msg361668
I think you meant to say "universe is part of God" instead of the other way around in red. I agree that all matter is a tiny part of the infinite Creator and the infinite Creator is also beyond that.
Whenever you see any form of matter you see a physical manifestation of a tiny part of the infinite Creator, so you see a part of the infinite Creator but you cannot see the infinite Creator in its entirety.
Having said that, I am going to say something very controversial that I don't think 7143 refers to seeing the infinite Creator! That is why hawk put "Allah" in brackets.
7143 So when Moses came to our appointed time, and his Lord spoke to him, he said "My Lord, let me look upon you." He said "You will not see Me, but look upon the mountain, if it stays in its place then you will see Me." So when his Lord revealed Himself to the mountain, He caused it to crumble; thus Moses fell unconscious. When he awoke, he said "Glory to You, I repent to You and I am the first of those who believe."
Hmm .... Moses came to OUR (first person) appointed time and then HIS LORD (third person) spoke to him???? Who is the first person "OUR"?
Something is amiss in the Arabic!
May the infinite Creator bless you.
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JavaLatte,
And I think it is you who cannot understand what I mean by seeing Allah. Is it because you materialize Allah perhaps?
You cannot see Allah as an object, but if you can see an expression of Allah then you have (yet) seen Allah for that is shaped from the force which is Allah. And no material does really exist but is shaped from some kind of raw energy with attributed features such as forming a barrier.
Salaam
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Pantheism is not wrong a label. It refers to that the visual reality is actually the Creator which is true, since the universe is sustained by a kind of force which could feel like energy. The matter is a shaped illusion and does not really exist.
These -isms are never perfect however, so pantheism only explains a fraction of it.
"Panentheism" does not really make any difference.
The fact is that Allah is existence itself and the only permanence, so to say pantheistic does matter little from panenthestic. Humans, flesh or anything else for that matter does not really exist unless they exist in Allah, and is a reason why some people will eventually have a really bad day, when the universe is no longer sustained and kept "humming" as a physical illusion.
Besides the illusion we call universe is the Creator though, which panentheism reveals and is a raw kind of force/consciousness/existence, yet everything is one and the same.
Isms usually have dire limitations.
Salaam
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Is it a risk to enlighten people about the common misconceptions and of Paganism?
It would be a risk if I conjectured, but I am not. I am speaking the truth even if it is hard for Pagan-minded to accept that notion.
It is also so hard for people to realize that there is no direct mystery about the famous so-called initials of Quran. They are merely meant as a hint as to how the language is supposed to be interpreted.
Allah is not supposed to be treated as an image of anything. Please understand this. This is not news but both Jesus and Moses knew this.
Salaam
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Finding,
God is the existence and the only permanently and indefinitely existing and only those who merge with the same consciousness will continue to exist in God. What you see is a mere illusion which does not really exist but is projected by the "force" of God.
The error people make is that they force God to be a separate image due to some Pagan ideology about gods while we actually are supposed to be merged in that consciousness and so to say co-exist in it. It is not idolatry because you acknowledge that it is ultimately the only real existence and you yourself only alone exist in the flesh/illusion. You are basically nothing alone. You seek to exist in God directly by sharing affinity and thus merging.
Salaam
That's how I understand too, and I agree with this, but I don't get the rest. The one about prostrating in Salat, etc? I don't get how is this prostrating to something else when God is everywhere.