Which is the Real Quran?
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Hafs,warsh,etc are all one Qur'an. Anyone who knows anything about the different qiraat would realize this. All have the same surahs, verses in the same order, and the surahs are in the same order. Anyone who knows old Arabic literature will also know it was very common to give the same sermon, verse, etc but modify it slightly. The idea of slightly varying the same material was a major component of old Arabic literature. The question posed is aimed at people who really do not know anything about the textual history of the Qur'an. I'm assuming the coda to the question will be
" how can you know which one is real? You can only know with the 19 code"
I'm shocked actually that people take this 19 nonsense seriously. There is nothing special about the number 19, nor is there a secret 19 code in the Qur'an. How about this though, just to be sure. I, or any number of people can send the "evidence" of this 19 code to known mathematicians at places like Caltech, mit,harvard,princeton,etc. I realize not all will answer, but some will. Let the real mathematicians decide. Btw Layth, do you have an email address someone can reach you at, besides hotmail?
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Peace be upon you all
22
This is the Scripture in which there is no doubt, a guide for the righteous.159
Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.8521- 22
No, it is a glorious Quran.
In a tablet, preserved.What does Allah mean with "In a tablet, preserved", "Scripture in which there is no doubt" and "indeed it is We who will preserve it"?
Why do we have this problem?
(
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Peace Cathedral,
Hafs,warsh,etc are all one Qur'an. Anyone who knows anything about the different qiraat would realize this. All have the same surahs, verses in the same order, and the surahs are in the same order. Anyone who knows old Arabic literature will also know it was very common to give the same sermon, verse, etc but modify it slightly. The idea of slightly varying the same material was a major component of old Arabic literature. The question posed is aimed at people who really do not know anything about the textual history of the Qur'an. I'm assuming the coda to the question will be
" how can you know which one is real? You can only know with the 19 code"
You are correct in assuming I am doing this to lead upto a specific point...
But I will not let the cat out of the bag yet as to what that point/conclusion will be.
I'm shocked actually that people take this 19 nonsense seriously. There is nothing special about the number 19, nor is there a secret 19 code in the Qur'an. How about this though, just to be sure. I, or any number of people can send the "evidence" of this 19 code to known mathematicians at places like Caltech, mit,harvard,princeton,etc. I realize not all will answer, but some will. Let the real mathematicians decide.
You would be surprized what 'nonsence' can give you if you study it correctly...But thanks for the offer of bringing in the 'experts' - I don't think that will be needed at this stage.
Btw Layth, do you have an email address someone can reach you at, besides hotmail?
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Peace Layth, all...
But I will not let the cat out of the bag yet as to what that point/conclusion will be.
At least you did not leave us with a crossgrid puzzle )
I have been following the thread for some time and would be quite interested in what this is leading up to...
Rgds,
NadiaBtw, I voted Hafs.
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Which Quran Version is the More Authentic?
Oh Good Lord, as if we didn't have enough things to worry about already...here's a new thing!
They've even created different VERSIONS of the Quran and I was asking the Christians howcome there are several versions of the Bible?!?
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Peace Nadia,
I have been following the thread for some time and would be quite interested in what this is leading up to...
I am currently finalizing the research paper on this subject...
God willing by Monday (or before that if possible) I will be able to share what I have found.
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Salaams
I havent studied this question and don't have the arabic language skills to do so.
However, my assumption is that minor variations in a text (like the addition of "wa/and" here and there) are more likely to occur as the text is transmitted over greater geographical distances (less opportunity to check back with the source) and between people of different mother tongues. I think this is a fair assumption.
For this reason I suspect that the version used widely in the middle east (hafs) is less likely to have gained extra words that the version used in northwest Africa (warsh).
But there is a caveat to this. If there were semantic differences between the hafs and warsh versions I would be more nervous about making this assumption.
Still, look forward to your analysis Layth as and when its ready to post.
salaams
asdfjk -
Peace Nadia,
I have been following the thread for some time and would be quite interested in what this is leading up to...
I am currently finalizing the research paper on this subject...
God willing by Monday (or before that if possible) I will be able to share what I have found.
I look foward to read your research layth. )
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Peace all,
I am able to announce the results now
I did hope to do this yesterday, but the document was not fully ready to be posted.
Enjoy the read...
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/WhichQuran.pdf
P.S. The file is 2MB so don't be surprized if it takes a while to open.
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Dear Layth,
It's a wonderful piece of work. I sincerely congratulate you on raising this matter in a learned way.
My question is in relation to the divergent total count of 6214 verses officially vs. the actual count of 6213 which you stated for the Warsh version. Where is the actual discrepancy?
The reason I ask is that 6213 is a multiple of 19 by itself without addition of any basmalahs. It would be interesting to know where and why there is such a discrepancy of one.
My best wishes in relation to any further work you do on this. I will watch with great interest.
Peace.
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Peace Layth
Peace Khalil,
The Word file is too big to be uploaded (5MB).
What I suggest is that you download the Acrobat Reader (free software) so that you can read this and any future pdf files
http//www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
Thank you for the suggestion.
pz
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Peace Layth,
Very interesting paper indeed...clear and concise in the points that are made and the illustrations are quite helpful.
It raises a lot of important questions for me and i'm sure for many other people as well...I never even considered the warsh version, but after reading this you make a very good point about considering all versions...I also wasn't aware of the verse counts and how much they differ...
The section on mathematical verification was very enlightening and interesting...
Thank you for the effort and research put into bringing this paper together, I've learnt a lot I did not know before.
Best Regards,
Nadia -
Peace Truth,
My question is in relation to the divergent total count of 6214 verses officially vs. the actual count of 6213 which you stated for the Warsh version. Where is the actual discrepancy?
I have not been able to locate the problem yet and the Quran Complex people in Medina don't seem to be any help (they have ignored my communication)...
In-fact, trying to find a Warsh copy for this research (even though it is printed by the Complex) was like a needle in a haystack.
The reason I ask is that 6213 is a multiple of 19 by itself without addition of any basmalahs. It would be interesting to know where and why there is such a discrepancy of one.
I noticed that same thing...
What may also interest you regarding mathematics is that when you don't treat the Basmallah as a verse (same as Warsh) then the following phenomena occurs
- Count of the word 'Allah' 2698 (which is what Khalifa was looking for)
- Count of the word 'Raheem' 114 (again, what Khalifa was looking for)
You will however have a problem with the count of 'Rahman' which becomes 56 (since the count of 57 for Khalifa was using the Basmalla of 11).
Now, if you recall, Khalifa had a problem with the word 'Quran' which comes to 58 (he knocked off a 1 by stating that it refers to 'another Quran' and can be ignored).
Here is the strange thing I found 56 (Rahman)+58 (Quran) =114
And is there a direct ink in the Quran between Al-Rahman and Al-Quran?
The answer is 'yes' 551-2
"Al-Rahman Ala'm Al-Quran"
Ala'm could mean 'taught', but could also mean 'marks'.
Al-Rahman 'marks' Al-Quran
56 marks 58
= 114 (total number of chapters)
Just thought it was interesting to share...
