Which is the Real Quran?
-
Peace Cathedral,
Hafs,warsh,etc are all one Qur'an. Anyone who knows anything about the different qiraat would realize this. All have the same surahs, verses in the same order, and the surahs are in the same order. Anyone who knows old Arabic literature will also know it was very common to give the same sermon, verse, etc but modify it slightly. The idea of slightly varying the same material was a major component of old Arabic literature. The question posed is aimed at people who really do not know anything about the textual history of the Qur'an. I'm assuming the coda to the question will be
" how can you know which one is real? You can only know with the 19 code"
You are correct in assuming I am doing this to lead upto a specific point...
But I will not let the cat out of the bag yet as to what that point/conclusion will be.
I'm shocked actually that people take this 19 nonsense seriously. There is nothing special about the number 19, nor is there a secret 19 code in the Qur'an. How about this though, just to be sure. I, or any number of people can send the "evidence" of this 19 code to known mathematicians at places like Caltech, mit,harvard,princeton,etc. I realize not all will answer, but some will. Let the real mathematicians decide.
You would be surprized what 'nonsence' can give you if you study it correctly...But thanks for the offer of bringing in the 'experts' - I don't think that will be needed at this stage.
Btw Layth, do you have an email address someone can reach you at, besides hotmail?
-
Peace Layth, all...
But I will not let the cat out of the bag yet as to what that point/conclusion will be.
At least you did not leave us with a crossgrid puzzle )
I have been following the thread for some time and would be quite interested in what this is leading up to...
Rgds,
NadiaBtw, I voted Hafs.
-
Which Quran Version is the More Authentic?
Oh Good Lord, as if we didn't have enough things to worry about already...here's a new thing!
They've even created different VERSIONS of the Quran and I was asking the Christians howcome there are several versions of the Bible?!?
-
Peace Nadia,
I have been following the thread for some time and would be quite interested in what this is leading up to...
I am currently finalizing the research paper on this subject...
God willing by Monday (or before that if possible) I will be able to share what I have found.
-
Salaams
I havent studied this question and don't have the arabic language skills to do so.
However, my assumption is that minor variations in a text (like the addition of "wa/and" here and there) are more likely to occur as the text is transmitted over greater geographical distances (less opportunity to check back with the source) and between people of different mother tongues. I think this is a fair assumption.
For this reason I suspect that the version used widely in the middle east (hafs) is less likely to have gained extra words that the version used in northwest Africa (warsh).
But there is a caveat to this. If there were semantic differences between the hafs and warsh versions I would be more nervous about making this assumption.
Still, look forward to your analysis Layth as and when its ready to post.
salaams
asdfjk -
Peace Nadia,
I have been following the thread for some time and would be quite interested in what this is leading up to...
I am currently finalizing the research paper on this subject...
God willing by Monday (or before that if possible) I will be able to share what I have found.
I look foward to read your research layth. )
-
Peace all,
I am able to announce the results now
I did hope to do this yesterday, but the document was not fully ready to be posted.
Enjoy the read...
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/WhichQuran.pdf
P.S. The file is 2MB so don't be surprized if it takes a while to open.
-
Dear Layth,
It's a wonderful piece of work. I sincerely congratulate you on raising this matter in a learned way.
My question is in relation to the divergent total count of 6214 verses officially vs. the actual count of 6213 which you stated for the Warsh version. Where is the actual discrepancy?
The reason I ask is that 6213 is a multiple of 19 by itself without addition of any basmalahs. It would be interesting to know where and why there is such a discrepancy of one.
My best wishes in relation to any further work you do on this. I will watch with great interest.
Peace.
-
Peace Layth
Peace Khalil,
The Word file is too big to be uploaded (5MB).
What I suggest is that you download the Acrobat Reader (free software) so that you can read this and any future pdf files
http//www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
Thank you for the suggestion.
pz
-
Peace Layth,
Very interesting paper indeed...clear and concise in the points that are made and the illustrations are quite helpful.
It raises a lot of important questions for me and i'm sure for many other people as well...I never even considered the warsh version, but after reading this you make a very good point about considering all versions...I also wasn't aware of the verse counts and how much they differ...
The section on mathematical verification was very enlightening and interesting...
Thank you for the effort and research put into bringing this paper together, I've learnt a lot I did not know before.
Best Regards,
Nadia -
Peace Truth,
My question is in relation to the divergent total count of 6214 verses officially vs. the actual count of 6213 which you stated for the Warsh version. Where is the actual discrepancy?
I have not been able to locate the problem yet and the Quran Complex people in Medina don't seem to be any help (they have ignored my communication)...
In-fact, trying to find a Warsh copy for this research (even though it is printed by the Complex) was like a needle in a haystack.
The reason I ask is that 6213 is a multiple of 19 by itself without addition of any basmalahs. It would be interesting to know where and why there is such a discrepancy of one.
I noticed that same thing...
What may also interest you regarding mathematics is that when you don't treat the Basmallah as a verse (same as Warsh) then the following phenomena occurs
- Count of the word 'Allah' 2698 (which is what Khalifa was looking for)
- Count of the word 'Raheem' 114 (again, what Khalifa was looking for)
You will however have a problem with the count of 'Rahman' which becomes 56 (since the count of 57 for Khalifa was using the Basmalla of 11).
Now, if you recall, Khalifa had a problem with the word 'Quran' which comes to 58 (he knocked off a 1 by stating that it refers to 'another Quran' and can be ignored).
Here is the strange thing I found 56 (Rahman)+58 (Quran) =114
And is there a direct ink in the Quran between Al-Rahman and Al-Quran?
The answer is 'yes' 551-2
"Al-Rahman Ala'm Al-Quran"
Ala'm could mean 'taught', but could also mean 'marks'.
Al-Rahman 'marks' Al-Quran
56 marks 58
= 114 (total number of chapters)
Just thought it was interesting to share...
-
Peace all,
I believe that the version of Rashad Khalifa is the correct one, based on Hafs version. The following configuration is what convinces me
The Shell
• 114 suras = 19x6
• 6234 + 112 verses = 6346 or 19x334
The number 6+3+4+6 = 19 , thus the probability of getting any 19 multiple whose sum of the digit is 19 is not so high
(from 1 to 10000 there are 33 numbers which possess this property)• The sum of verses in the first 19 suras is 2346
Note 6234 is the 19th permutation of 2346• Definition a sura is homogenous, when its number is odd and the number of its verses is also odd, or when its number is
even and the number of its verses is also even.
a sura is heterogenous, when it is not homogenous.
There are 57 homogenous suras.
There are 57 heterogenous suras.• The sum of the sura numbers + the verse numbers in the homogenous area only 6234 (the same as the total amount of
numbered verses in the Quran)• The sum of the sura numbers + the verse numbers in the heterogenous area only 6555 (the same as the sum of the numbers
from 1 to 114) ....
For example Sura 3 is heterogenous because it has 200 verses. If it had 198 verses only (for example) then it would be still heterogenous, but the sum of the heterogenous area will be 6553 which has nothing to do with 6555 or N (N from 1 to 114) or 19x345. Anyone can try random configurations for 114 chapters and see how difficult it is to get such configuration by random choice• The Sigma notation (also called summation notation) is shorthand for
summing a series. The expression to the right of the Sigma is the
formula that you plug each number in the series into.Now we can apply following function on each sura
f(sura) = S + V + Sigma(1 to verse numbers)
f(sura) = S + V + N (where N is from 1 to V)
S sura no.
V number of verses in the suraThis function means we add the sura number, the number of verses in this sura and the sum of the numbers from 1 to the
number of verses in this sura.For sura 1 we get
f(1) = 1 + 7 + (1+2+3+...+7) = 1 + 7 + 28 = 36
The sum of the 114 resulting numbers when applying this function to all 114 suras is 346199 or 19x18221 or 19x19x959.This is not a coincidence or a game of luck
• if we apply this function to initialed suras only, then we get as a grand sum 190133 or 19x10007
• if we apply this function to non-initialed suras only, then we get as a grand sum 156066 or 19x8214
• The Sigma from 1 to N, where N is multiple of 19 is also a multiple of 19
e.g 1+2+3+4+....+112+113+114 is a multiple of 19 because 114 is a multiple of 19114
----- N
\ ---
\
/ / M = 253460 or 19x13340
/ ---
------ M=1
N=1
(where N from 1 to 114 and M from 1 to N)• This formula works also if we restrict the N to the set of initialed sura numbers; i.e. Ne( 2,3,7,10,11,12,13,14,15,19,20,
26,27,28,29,30,31,32,36,38,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,50,68 ), the grand sum will be 15675 or 19x825• This formula works also if we restrict N to numbers from 1 to 114 and not a number of an initialed suras, the grand sum will be 237785 or 19x12515
• we know that 1/19= 0,052631578947368421052631578947368
The number 5263 is the amount of verses from 21 (first initial) to 681 (last initial)• Sura 74 starts with O Hidden! (741) and 741=19x39 but, this is also the number of verses from 741 to 1146 (End of
Quran)• In the Quran there are 30 different integer numbers mentioned 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 19, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 99, 100, 200, 300, 1000, 2000, 3000, 5000, 50,000, & 100,000. The sum of these numbers is 162146, or 19x8534.
The distribution of the word "ALLAH"
• simply we create a table with 2 columns
S | V
1 | 1
1 | 2
... ...• the sum of the sura column 39045 or 19x2055
• the sum of the verse column 118123 or 19x6217
• Verse, who are assigned to numbers multiple of 19 in the quran are 19, 38, 57, 76, 95, 114, 133, 152, 171, 190, 209, 228, 247, 266, 285
In such verses the word ALLAH occurs 133 times or 19x7The Basmalah
• This expression consists of 19 letters
• Now the following function alone is enough to be showing how hard the design of the basmalah can be
f(exp) = seq(word) ^ X
for each word concatenate the sequence of the word in the expression, then concatenate X
X will be many different input values (see below)
for Basmalah 1 X 2 X 3 X 4 X
• X is the number of letters ==> 13243646 = 19 x 19 x 36686
• X is the GV of the word ==> 110226633294289 = 19 x 5801401752331
• X is the GV of each single letter 12 60 4021 30 30 531 30 200 8 40 5041 30 200 8 10 40 = 19 x 66336954226595422109686863843162160
• X is the number of letters from beginning of the expression to the end of the word 1327313419 = 19 x 69858601
• X is the total GV of the letters from beginning of the expression to the end of the word 1102216834974786 = 19 x 58011412367094
• X is a sum of the number of letters and the GV of the word 110527033354295 = 19 x 5817212281805
This is alone a very hard task for someone who wants to make a similar configuration!
Now the basmala has few properties which should be mentioned here
• The word Bism is written differently (B S M) instead of (B A S M) as in many other places (5674, 5696, 6952, 961)
• The basmala occurs 2 times with a verse number assigned to it.
• For the words Allah Alrahman Alraheem we have GV of 684 or 19x36
• Each of the 4 words
• ISM 19 occurances (+ 3 occurances of BSM)
• Allah 2698
• Alrahman 57
• Alraheem 114
• If we try to find how many verses contain one of more of these words, we find 1919 verses
• The word 3 occurances of bism in numbered verses split the whole 6346 verses of the quran into 3 parts
The number of verses in each part is• part 1 from 11 to 1140 has 1520 verses or 19x80
• part 2 from 1141 to 2729 has 1691 verses or 19x89
• part 3 from 2730 to 1146 has 3135 verses or 19x165
Now if we multiply the probabilities of each of the features mentioned in this document and multiply the probability
of the initialed suras, and take into consideration features as• 365 occurances of yawm, yawma
• 30 occurances of yawmaan, yawmayn, ayaam
• 12 occurances of month
• 19 occurances of years
• earth, sun and moon align on the same line each 19 years and see in the quran that sun and moon are mentioned in the same verse together 19 times.
and that there are mathematical balances in the occurances of words like
Dunia (this world) <115> Akhira (the hereafter)
Shaytan (any form of the word) <88> malaika (any form of the word)
etc..we will understand that this is a very well intended design which can not be immitated.
This also demonstrates, that the word Sura is not just a chapter of a collection of verses, but a sura is a part of a complex mathematical configuration.
Who can calculate the probability for the above configuration in a statistical manner?
Best regards,
sabo -
Peace Sabo,
That is a great compilation that you have put together...
However, before being too quick in making your conclusion (Hafs + RK's deletion), I would like to point out some very obvious facts that you have missed
Each of the 4 words
ISM 19 occurances (+ 3 occurances of BSM)
Allah 2698
Alrahman 57
Alraheem 114
When speaking of the full Quran as its exists (and not parts that we pick and chose)
Allah = 2811
Al-Rahman = 169
Alraheem = 227None of the 3 names are divisible by 19 (even after RK's deletion).
Be patient and we may all find the answers together...
