So did anyone figured out what salat is?
-
Salaam everyone,
Reel, my condolences on passing of your mom. May the Creator grant you patience and strength.
Let's use Quran as its own dictionary.
7531 For he did not believe nor "salla"
7532 But he denied and turned away.As you can clearly see, the verb "salla" is contrasted with "turned away" so it can only mean "turned toward".
Salat is "a way of turning towards" or communication. When you "turn away" from someone you are in fact stopping communication and disconnecting from someone. In the quranic context "salat" is communication with the Creator. Birds have their own form of communication with the Creator as does every living being. For the believers, "aqimi al-salat" is establishing communication with the Creator at certain times of the day. Purpose is remembering the Creator and it results in guidance and physical, mental, spiritual progress.
Salaam
-
For the believers, "aqimi al-salat" is establishing communication with the
Creator at certain times of the day. Purpose is remembering the Creator
and it results in guidance and physical, mental, spiritual progress.Peace truthseeker11
I agree with you in principle, please make clear as to how you, or we are
to go about "establishing communication with the Creator at certain
times of the day."God bless you
peace
-
Peace hawk99,
Please study the quran regarding salat, and then after a genuine personal attempt to understand how you are to go about establishing salat, WHATEVER way and timings you arrive at will be the best way for you. This way might be somewhat different from others but should be perfectly acceptable, as long as it involves remembering the Creator and implementing the guidance received in your daily life, thereby resulting in physical, mental, and spiritual progress, and walking the "good deeds" path.
May the Creator bless you.
-
peace
I might have overlooked some ayah, where does it say salli is only about communicating with the creator?
2.45
Nay, seek (Allah's) help with patient perseverance and prayer It is indeed hard, except to those who bring a lowly spirit.forgetting things in brackets, where do we seek help from?
when you are sick, need information of a kind or need any type of help - don't you seek it from competent people if you don't get it from one place you go to someone other until you are able to...............
And it doesn't matter the time of day or night.
Same with Allah aswell he is available 24/7 and not at any given times .......surely.
-
Truthseeker,
If it says "turned away" it refers to turning away from GOD and from FOLLOWING CLOSELY. Not from some non-existent recurring periodical communication practice in ritualistic manner. I told you salla means following something which testament is what you read of Quran today, i.e. the GUIDANCE.
See the horse race metaphor.
Since people keep believing in salat as prayer or communication practice I will divert focus to the stupid interpretations that Quran speaks of some timing which is also non-existent except perhaps 2458 but where salla is used to speak of something else. In 2458 people have to be aware that the sallawa word has no AL prefix whereas if it would grammatically refer to the name or instance of "prayer" then the language would be definite.
Following GOD and keeping communication is a constant practice and has no timing.
Salaam
-
Are the birds also going to follow each other periodically and get lost the other time while flying in formation because they remain in contact with GOD only during their "contact prayer" or focused session or whatever excusing interpretation acrobatics people divert to to defend their ritual.
Be wholly.
Salaam
-
Peace Man Of Faith.
You said
Since people keep believing in salat as prayer or communication practice I will divert focus to the stupid interpretations that Quran speaks of some timing which is also non-existent except perhaps 2458 but where salla is used to speak of something else. In 2458 people have to be aware that the sallawa word has no AL prefix whereas if it would grammatically refer to the name or instance of "prayer" then the language would be definite.
What about {11114]? and ?
No timing?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace hawk99,
Please study the quran regarding salat, and then after a genuine personal
attempt to understand how you are to go about establishing salat, WHATEVER
way and timings you arrive at will be the best way for you. This way might be
somewhat different from others but should be perfectly acceptable, as long as
it involves remembering the Creator and implementing the guidance received
in your daily life, thereby resulting in physical, mental, and spiritual progress, a
nd walking the "good deeds" path.May the Creator bless you.
Peace truthseeker11
I think your conclusion is sound in the absence of acceptable rites
but we do have acceptable rites already in place, why should they be
abandoned/or adjusted?And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House
Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the KnowingOur Lord, and make us Muslims to You and from our descendants a
Muslim nation to You. And show us our rites and accept our repentance.
Indeed, You are the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.What rites do you conclude were given to Ibrahim if any?
God bless you
peace
-
The word you designate as rites in the quoted passage does not necessarily mean that. It has other lexical meanings as well such as piety and "to apply oneself" as commitment as well as servitude and acts such as that. Those are also the kind of "rituals" we are supposed to do.
Salaam
-
Peace hawk99,
I agree with Man of Faith on this issue.
I will urge you to be very careful with relying on other peoples translations and to verify everything for yourself. For example in 2127 you quoted
And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House
Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the KnowingWhoever translated this verse mistranslated a key phrase thereby misguiding billions. It does not say "al-qawa3id al-bayt" meaning "the foundations of the house", but says "al-qawa3id min al-bayt" meaning "the foundations FROM the house", which completely changes the meaning.
The proper translation would be
2127 And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations FROM the house ......
Usually al-bayt has a physical meaning in al-quran but the usage of "min" in this verse before al-bayt turns it into a mental bayt instead of a physical one, which implies something like a "system" instead of a physical house.
Examples of a non physical house in English would be "House of Commons", "Speaker of the House" etc.
Coming back to "mansak", some points
- The root "Nun-Siin-Kaf" also has meanings of "to lead a devout life, to be pious, to serve the creator, to apply oneself".
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Thus "mansak" can also mean "an act of piety or devotion/servitude to the creator" which fits perfectly in 2128.
2128 Our lord, make us muslims to you and from our descendants a muslim nation to you. And show us our acts of piety/servitude/devotion and accept our repentance ......
Please note that "muslims" in this verse has to be a common noun with a small "m" rather than a proper name with a capital "M" (as you have quoted), because of the usage with "lak"/"to you". Muslim to you (implying proper name of a religion) would be nonsensical here, but "muslim" to you (implying a common noun state of being) would make sense.
- You mentioning "manasik" in context of our discussion about salat implies that you think salat is included in "manasik". Let's see the quranic evidence
Firstly, 2127-128 does not have "salat" in its context.
Secondly,
6162 Say "My salat, and my "nusuk", and my life, and my death, are all to the god, lord of the worlds."
As you can clearly see, "salat" is mentioned separately from "nusuk" in this sign.
This lends even more weight to the notion that "salat" is more of a "turning towards" or "communication" with the creator, and "nusuk" are ways to achieve physical, mental, spiritual progress which we learn as a result of "salat"/turning towards/communication with the creator.
Salat is not a unique concept limited to al-quran. People have been performing salat since the dawn of mankind. Different people in the world have different ways of performing salat. For example
For the believers, please study the quranic way from al-quran.
For Buddhists the turning towards/communication is through meditation.
For spiritualists it is through channeling, astral projection etc.
Salat of Aborigines (see pictures) http//www.gondwananet.com/aboriginal-religion.htmlYou might call Aborigines mushrikeen, but in their own way they are performing salat to the creator.
WHATEVER works for you depending upon your belief system should be perfectly acceptable.
May the creator bless you.
-
The word you designate as rites in the quoted passage does not necessarily
mean that. It has other lexical meanings as well such as piety and "to apply
oneself" as commitment as well as servitude and acts such as that. Those
are also the kind of "rituals" we are supposed to do.Salaam
Peace Man of Faith,
What is done with rites except apply yourself/commitment, which involves servitude?
Peace hawk99,
Thus "mansak" can also mean "an act of piety or devotion/servitude to
the creator" which fits perfectly in 2128.2128 Our lord, make us muslims to you and from our descendants a muslim
nation to you. And show us our acts of piety/servitude/devotion
and accept our repentance ......May the creator bless you.
Peace truthseeker11
I understand your corrections, the translations are not the point,
you did not answer my question.What are the rites or " our acts of piety/servitude/devotion"
given to Ibrahim?May God bless you all
peace
-
Peace hawk99,
This is off-topic.
I think the more important question would be what are the acts of devotion/servitude/piety given to you. When you help others and do good deeds, you are serving the creator.
Slaughtering an animal and feeding it to the poor is a nusuk also, as is mentioning the name of the creator over the meat.
Please study al-quran, you should find your answer there.
peace
-
Peace hawk99,
This is off-topic.
I think the more important question would be what are the acts of devotion/servitude/piety given to you.
When you help others and do good deeds, you are serving the creator.
Please study al-quran, you should find your answer there.
peace
Peace truthseeker11
I don't think my question is off topic, but a refusal to answer a relevant
question on your part, therefore we have reached an impasse.handshake
God bless you
peace
-
Peace hawk99,
Your question has nothing to do with what salat is as I have already proved it to you so yes it became off-topic after that. Secondly, I hadn't finished editing my post. Thirdly, I cannot do your homework for you (even though I did some of it ).
May the creator bless you too,
handshake
peace
-
Peace hawk99,
Your question has nothing to do with what salat
I hadn't finished editing my post
Thirdly, I cannot do your homework for you (even though I did some of it )).peace
Peace truthseeker11
Indeed my question has to do with salat. "I hadn't finished editing my post" of course
Thirdly, I cannot do your homework for you (even though I did some of it )).
nopeYour condescending attitude makes you superior only in your mind!
God bless you
peace
-
Hawk99,
The Arabic refers to service done for GOD and does not refer to a ritualistic practice repeated on a regular basis of which GOD has no need or want for. Hence it cannot be service since it is not of any use to GOD for GOD has no ego huge as a mountain to satisfy and the concept of duty of praying to glorify GOD is a human idea that GOD can be affected by such meaningless practice which is basically just words for someone/something that does not need it or can be emotionally affected by it and you cannot sweet talk GOD.
What counts is the good that you do honoring GOD.
As for spiritual growth there are many methods and repeating/parroting a phrase to themselves several times per day helps some people, but the one benefited is the parrot who (hopefully) remembers in his everyday life what he parrots. The person could as well quietly sit and contemplate his conduct and life situations without uttering a word in some kind of meditation. That is up to the person.
But GOD does need none of it and GOD knows what you need or want to convey before you even opened up your mouth. And if you are grateful then GOD sure knows it already. Silent contemplation or repeated recital is a personal choice. The purpose is to make YOU have a realization of yourself in what you utter or think to do. The word 'amen' refers to just that, realization. What you utter with your mouth and do not do is not 'amen', thus a person cannot be 'amen b'Allah' merely by saying it, but they must realize themselves in what they claim or they are a hypocrite. Are not the semitic languages ingenious?
Salaam
-
Peace everyone,
Peace truthseeker11
Indeed my question has to do with salat. "I hadn't finished editing my post" of course
Thirdly, I cannot do your homework for you (even though I did some of it )).
nopeYour condescending attitude makes you superior only in your mind!
God bless you
peace
This attitude is what I get for genuinely trying to help someone. I spent time, did lot of research, unselfishly for someone. I could have gone to the beach on my day off.
Makes me not want to help anyone else.
Peace
-
peace hicham9,
QA l-qwd (د lit. means the remains not foundations . . .
Those before them have schemed, but God came at their building from the remains, thus the roof fell on top of them, and the retribution came to them from where they did not know.
Seems like your understanding fails a Quran cross-reference, albeit the above is commonly taken as a metaphor.
peace t11,
It may be interesting to note 1626 states "came at their building min/FROM the Q3d" and 2127 states "raised the Q3d min/FROM the bayt" - indicating incompatibility with the traditional understanding of "bayt" as a building.
In other words - traditional understanding
1626 - a building has existing Q3d
2127 - Q3d raised from bayt (which is a building) thus already has existing Q3dPerhaps this explains the forced rendering of "min"=of.
I disagree with you however when it comes to the meaning of "bayt" in these verses
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html -
SLM @Wakas,
Those before them sure did plot,
then, G-D came (at) their buildings from the remains
so, the roof fell upon them from above them
and the punishment overtook them from whence they did not perceive
QA l-qwd () lit. means the remains qd ~ to sit, or remain (behind)] not foundations . . .
Seems like your understanding fails a Quran cross-reference, albeit the above is commonly taken as a metaphor.
I'm not sure about that ... one thing for sure, foundations doesn't fit in 2460!
