9:7 A clue why Masjidi Haram may be not a building
-
God's blessings,
Maqaam can be a place as well as a status or stance. The form maf&il is a variation of the form maf&al. Just as mif&al is a variation of mif&aal. There is no need for speculation about some grand connation that each form implies. There are many dialectical variations that exist like this. The word could be masjad instead of masjid or makeen instead of makaan, or maqeem instead of maqaam. But the forms that we have are the ones that were prevalantly used. I'm sure some can attest to some akward forms that the Koran uses and I'm sure such akward forms can be found in other Cl. Arabic literature, but there is no reason to start speculating about whether one form implies an instituation whereas the other just implies a place. Grammatical consistency has to be shown with all or most of the words that use these forms.
Godbless,
Anwar -
In this respect is VERY illustrative an another noun of time and place, namely ?majlis? from the verb jalasa -to sit
It can mean PLACE of sitting(seat, conference room, session room) and/or TIME(or act/instance) of sitting(session, sitting; party, gathering, meeting) and/or INSTITUTION/BODY of
sitting(council, colegium, committee, board, court, tribunal) ....all this usages are very well known, in dictionaries registered and imo wide spread....best wishes, Zlatan
-
Peace
mhlong time no see D
nice to see you...
I have an observation more in regards of these nouns of the place and/or time ....
As demonstrated the methaphorisation of their meaning often goes in direction of "institutions".... however this is not the only direction of the methaphorisation ....they also tend to acquire and express the meaning of "position(stance)" and/or "way" or "attitude"....so, at least theoretically, masjid could mean "position(stance)" or "attitude" or "way" of obeying/complying etc. whatever the root meaning of s-j-d denotes...
This is imo best witnessed by the very name the grammarians have given to these nouns -"asmaul makani wal zamani" and "makan" according to my review of dictionaries can mean all above...
best wishes, Zlatan
-
peace zlatan and thanks for the reply.
ti is very informative adn helps to get an insight in the Book. what i woudl liek to add is that and i am pretty confident that without a complete approach to the whole book as well as a high sense of real life problems.
i think we ahev been missing the SOCIAL accent of the book as if it has to deal with dead and not with living people.
when we have this in mind then we can see what could 'masjid', salat' and other concepts are all about.
so when you take the book from this point of view then you do not have even to question its authenticity. you will simply see that it is a practical life guide that encompasses the inner and the outer of our being. do you get my point? i hope you do.
thanks again and get back to you soon in a private message with new developments in my research.
peace
mh -
Peace
what i woudl like to add is that and i am pretty confident that without a complete approach to the whole book as well as a high sense of real life problems.
you put it nicely
i think we ahev been missing the SOCIAL accent of the book as if it has to deal with dead and not with living people.
thanks for the reminder!
bets wishes, Zlatan
-
I have found another two species of words that word masjid, at least theoretically, might belong to.....
These class of words are masdarul meemiyyu(m/meem -infinitives/verbal nouns) and ismul aalati(noun/s of the instrument/tool/mean)....
Both of these classes starts with m....
1 the meaning of the masdarul-meemiyyu could correspond to sujood-obeying/complying/prostrating/etc.....but imo it might also denote way of obeying/complying/etc....an example similar to this might be a word that is mentioned in the book... Solomon is taught "mantiqut-tayri" -speaking/speech/way of speech of the birds...mantiq is one of masdars/infinitives/verbal nouns based on triliter ntq or verb nati(a)qa(not quite sure how its vocalised) meaning- to speak......there are many roots/words that have more than one infinitive/verbal noun and the infinitives/verbal nouns mainly represent abstract nouns... i am not sure if the meanings of the different verbal nouns belonging to the same verb/root is necessarily different or they can also be the same(havent checked it yet).... from my current knowledge/memory they might differ but this is not necessarily the case...
2 Ismul aalati as they name suggest(nouns of instrument) would give the root sjd meaning of tool/instrument/mean of obeying/complying/etc.
It may be necessary to say that these nouns of instrument(except if there is some rare exception)correspond to the word masjid only in consonant basis, but not in vovels or vocalisation marks, however this may be irrelevant if one considers the consonant basis as a base for finding the original meaning(as I and many others do) - due to differences in vocalisation marks found in different scripts available or due to existence of the scripts without vocalisation marks....
best wishes, Zlatan
-
Peace be upon you all,
Can someone give an example of what Zlatans information suggests? I am not following.
-
-
Zlatan. I know that the second use of meem that you refer to is the form
mif'al. Meezaan (instrument of mazn), minbaar(instrument of nabr), and meeqaat (instrument of wqt). Are all forms of them.As for the first. I think you mean where mantiq actually refers to nutooq or natq and where masjid could also possible refer to sujood or sajd. That is valid. Just as maghrib, can refer to gharb/ghuroob and mashriq, sharq, shurooq. It's like saying that 'Worship' is where/when worship is done, giving the action a time and place of its own. Like saying, "We went to Worship' as opposed to 'We went to worship.'
Godbless,
Anwar