IS EARTH STATIONARY/FIXED?
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Salam brother hafez,
All three words the translators chose the wrong definitions for.
Zay-Waw-Lam is supposed to use "pass away/go away" and signify that GOD sustains the world and if GOD did not do so they would cease.
Qaf-Waw-Miim means mindfully/follow the commands. Hence the use with al-salawateh in meaning mindful/follow guidance. Qum signifies expression/action not remain in place. Qum refers to being attentive.
Qaf-Ra-Ra is supposed to mean a solid surface and not like Jupiter's surface or like other gas giants.
Although all three examples probably suffer from the usual weak interpretation that haunts Quran.
Be well
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The earths, Sun, Moon and everything around us supports life sustenance here in earth and all are interlinked with one another, one helps the other. If anyone deviates a little then life is 0.
This total setup cannot be deviated.by the way flat doesnt mean fixed or firm, its the gravity that holds everything together in the earth. If its not gravity, even its flat one can slide up or down or anywhere.
Salam brother hafez,
All three words the translators chose the wrong definitions for.
Zay-Waw-Lam is supposed to use "pass away/go away" and signify that GOD sustains the world and if GOD did not do so they would cease.
Thanks brothers, that was pretty straightforward answer. The verse was surely metaphysical in tone. It answers why everything has a law.
As for earth running or fixed, this is one verse explains it all.
It is Allah who erected the heavens without pillars that you see; then He established Himself above the Throne and made subject the sun and the moon, each running for a specified term. He arranges matter; He details the signs that you may, of the meeting with your Lord, be certain.132
Also see
Yasin/40
It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day, and they all swim in an orbit.Enbiya/33
It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon all (of them) swim in an orbit.I quoted these verses from a Turkish interpretation of Koran. In the interpretation, the footnote written below the verse Enbiya/33 is as follows ?Although only two celestial bodies are mentioned, it is stated through a verb tense which is used for more than two things that all of them swim in a separate orbit. It can be inferred from this that all celestial bodies, together with the Sun and Moon, move in an orbit unique to them?.
This interpretation which is indeed applicable for the Enbiya/33 also applies to Yasin/40. Because, Arabic translation of the part translated as ?all of them swim in an orbit? in both verses is exactly the same ?k?ll?n f felekiy yesbehun?.
sourcehttp//www.quran-miracle.info/Earth-Rotates.htm
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The Creator (whom they are seeking to mask) made this Earth fixed and firm for you, and put up two lamps, one for the night and one for the day, then covered the earth with an invisible firmament, and then challenged you to pierce it.
Bold This is very suitable with the Qur'an.
The truth is there (in the Qur'an), straight and clear.
I hope you will uphold honesty in this issue, brother hafeez kazi.
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peace hk, all,
I have not studied this but
QRR does not seem to imply a motionless thing, or only that, see other usage, e.g. see 1426 for example.
3541 doesn't imply motionless to me
3025 From His signs is that the heavens and the earth will stand/arise/establish/maintain by His command. Then, when He calls you forth from the earth, you will come out.
"stand" is not the only option, and also the latter underline implies some sort of reference to end times perhaps. If so, implying prior to that, the earth was not standing (if one interpreted it as standing). So in actuality, this verse could be interpreted to mean it was moving prior. However, without further research it's hard to say.
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Peace Wakas
QRR does not seem to imply a motionless thing, or only that, see other usage, e.g. see 1426 for example.
Do you mean STABLE/STABILITY .1426
stable adjective
(of an object or structure) not likely to give way or overturn; firmly fixed.
synonyms firm, solid, steady, secure, fixed, strong, fast, stout, sturdy, safe, moored, anchored, stuck down, immovable, well built, well constructed, substantial
"a very stable tent"Is not He (best) Who made the earth fixed place and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any Allah beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not! (An-Naml 61)
The only meaning that is in agreement with the verse is SOLID which brother MOF also agrees.
Qaf-Ra-Ra is supposed to mean a solid surface and not like Jupiter's surface or like other gas giants.
3025 From His signs is that the heavens and the earth will stand/arise/establish/maintain by His command. Then, when He calls you forth from the earth, you will come out.
STAND in the above verse cannot be literal but metamorphic.
stand and arise both are nearly same. What will the heavens and the earth establish/maintain by the command of Allah. eg Mankind establish the salat, and maintain building/mosque etc. Further details will be highly appreciated
3541 doesn't imply motionless to me
Lo! Allah graspeth the heavens and the earth that they deviate not, and if they were to deviate there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving 3541 (Pickthall)
Zay-Waw-Lam = it went away, passed away, departed/removed/shifted, ceased to exist, came to naught, become remote, to turn/swerve, quit, motion/commotion.
Zaalataa (prf. 3rd p.f. dual.) They twain swerve away, come to naught
Tazuula (prf. 3rd p.f. sing.) She swerves away, comes to naughtTazuulaa
Swerve away, come to naught
Zawaal (v.n.) Fall; Passing away (LANES LEXICON)The purpose of holding the heavens and the earth is only that they should SWERVE not. All other meaning of ZWL does not fit in the context.
http//snag.gy/uVuwv.jpg
My understanding, which is contradictory to science, is that Allah is holding the heavens and the earth lest they deviate and if they deviate (then the whole universe will be in disarray) then there will be one other than Allah to hold them (back again)
This I believe is a reminder to mankind
Peace brother Mof
Qaf-Ra-Ra is supposed to mean a solid surface and not like Jupiter's surface or like other gas giants.
Agreed bravo
Qaf-Waw-Miim means mindfully/follow the commands. Hence the use with al-salawateh in meaning mindful/follow guidance. Qum signifies expression/action not remain in place. Qum refers to being attentive.
TAQUM is among the signs of Allah.
Zay-Waw-Lam is supposed to use "pass away/go away" and signify that GOD sustains the world and if GOD did not do so they would cease.
Lo! Allah graspeth the heavens and the earth that they deviate not, and if they were to deviate there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving 3541 (Pickthall)
There is some purpose some reason for Allah holding the heavens and the earth. It may be that Allah does not want the heavens and the earth to pass away/go away/deviate till the trumpet is blown or Last day. Allah further says that if they pass away/go away/deviate then there is none other than Allah to hold them. It implies that the whole universe will be in disarray if they pass away/go away/deviate and then there will be none who can hold them back again. This is a reminder to mankind
Would you please clarify what is passing away/going away of the heavens and the earth.
Thanks
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Bold This is very suitable with the Qur'an.
The truth is there (in the Qur'an), straight and clear.
I hope you will uphold honesty in this issue, brother hafeez kazi.
So what's the relationship between the lamps and the firmament? Are the lamps hanging in/on the firmament or somewhere else? I appears that the lamps where put in place before the firmament was created.
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peace hk,
I was thinking of "stable/stability" yes.
Can you clarify why such a meaning cannot fit in the verse in question?stand and arise both are nearly same. What will the heavens and the earth establish/maintain by the command of Allah. eg Mankind establish the salat, and maintain building/mosque etc. Further details will be highly appreciated
It depends on how you interpret it, for example "maintain" seems to work fine, i.e. the heavens and earth will maintain/uphold (i.e. endure) until God makes the call, perhaps explaining the latter part of the verse.
Re 3541
You seem to be suggesting "holding" means "motionless". If so, I disagree, as that is not explicit and simply one interpretation. I can hold something and still move and/or move my hand. It suggests to me they do not swerve/deviate from their orbits/course etc that God made for them, i.e. they are held in place. -
Peace wakas
I was thinking of "stable/stability" yes.
Can you clarify why such a meaning cannot fit in the verse in question?let me clarify. I said "All other meaning of ZWL does not fit in the context" 3541 not this verse.
Is not He (best) Who made the earth solid/stable and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any Allah beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not! (An-Naml 61)
Both stable and solid fits in the context
I opted one of the the synonyms of stable (soild) only because Allah has described the earth the other times as spread out, wide expanse, smooth/level, enrich, so solid will be another description of the earth that will differentiate it from other planets.
It depends on how you interpret it, for example "maintain" seems to work fine, i.e. the heavens and earth will maintain/uphold (i.e. endure) until God makes the call, perhaps explaining the latter part of the verse.
The only hitch in this verse is that TAQUM is one among the signs of Allah which according to you the verse is in future tense. I believe all the signs of Allah are for the mankind either to see or understand and ponder over it. Some thing in future cannot be a sign for mankind. All signs of Allah are mentioned from verse 20 to 25 and all are either present or past.
The later part of the verse have absolutely no connection with the former part. There is zero message of the verse. In the first part Allah says that the earth TAQUM by His command, then in the second part He says that, then when He calls you forth from the earth you will come out. I could not understand anything what Allah wants to convey in this verse.
Even if it is present tense then also TAQUM (stand/arise/maintain/establish) is not appropriate. There should be some other meaning of TAQUM which we do not find in the lexicons. I am thinking what is the TAQUM of the earth by the command of Allah which is one among His signs. I am concentrating on this angle.
It suggests to me they do not swerve/deviate from their orbits/course etc that God made for them, i.e. they are held in place.
Now I disagree even with swerve/deviate because the heavens are a canopy/ceiling therefore they do not have any course so that they deviate/swerve.
Thanks
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Quran speaks about the earth not from a geocentric perspective nor from a heliocentric one. Consider how our solar system travels through the universe. The path of the earth and planets as they travel with the sun through space is much like a vortex (helical model).
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4V-ooITrws
This is what Quran means with fixed.
Peace
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Hail Hafez,
T - qum
on a verb as prefix simply is part of a predicate, i.e. it brings the speaking of a subject that the subject caused the action of the verb. It is so a Classical Arabic speaker and listener know what they are speaking about. "X caused verb effect". This is a direct consequence of the subject.
Because this passage probably does not speak of the same thing as in the traditional interpretation, the on likely refers to ayat mentioned earlier in the sentence that stretches over more than one passage.
You can compare that to Shu'ayb's passage about his salatek t - amrek. The here is part of the predicate of his salatek. The prefix takes the form depending on the type of subject. The salat makes him determined as a consequence.
That means T- qum does not change the meaning of qum the slightest only telling that caused the effect of the verb.
And the real meaning of qum is to be mindful/attentive (expressed in mind). Qum al-salat means "to be mindful of al-salat" and thus pay attention to it. (Since salah means literally the following it is not very strange.) That explains the T on qum too because the reader in the passage is supposed to behold the signs/parables in GOD's marvelous narration.
Eventually I am going to release a book on real Classical Arabic grammar.
About the passing away it appears to mean that unless the Sustainer (Rabb) "grasps" the planets, i.e. so-called gravity, they would just fly away here and there. I interpret it as natural laws in this case.
Be well
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peace hk,
The only hitch in this verse is that TAQUM is one among the signs of Allah which according to you the verse is in future tense.
No. In my previous reply, I offered a rendition which is present tense. However, prior to that I said it could be interpreted several ways, one example being future tense.
Some thing in future cannot be a sign for mankind.
What about signs that discuss the end times, j-day, after we die, prophecies, etc - or do they not exist in Quran?
Your two statements below are not compatible
The later part of the verse have absolutely no connection with the former part. There is zero message of the verse.
Absolute statement, implying definitive understanding of verse.
Vs.
I could not understand anything what Allah wants to convey in this verse.
Implying no understanding of verse.
Now I disagree even with swerve/deviate because the heavens are a canopy/ceiling therefore they do not have any course so that they deviate/swerve.
Perhaps you can clarify, as per Quran, what you are referring to by "heavens"?
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Peace
I have come across three verses in the Quran which says that the earth is stationary/fixed. This is by no means that I want to prove that the earth is stationary but want to understand the deeper meaning of the verses.
Lo! Allah graspeth the heavens and the earth that they deviate not, and if they were to deviate there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving 3541 (Pickthall)
Zay-Waw-Lam = it went away, passed away, departed/removed/shifted, ceased to exist, came to naught, become remote, to turn/swerve, quit, motion/commotion.
Zaalataa (prf. 3rd p.f. dual.) They twain swerve away, come to naught
Tazuula (prf. 3rd p.f. sing.) She swerves away, comes to naught
Tazuulaa Swerve away, come to naught
Zawaal (v.n.) Fall; Passing away (LANES LEXICON)And among His Signs is this, that heaven and earth stand by His Command then when He calls you, by a single call, from the earth, behold, ye (straightway) come forth 3025
STAND to stop or remain motionless or steady on the feet a cessation of motion halt or stop.
Qaf-Ra-Ra = to be or become cool, remain quiet, be steadfast, be firm, refresh, be stable, be firm, receive satisfy, affirm, agree, settle, last. qarar - stability, a fixed or secure place, depository, place ahead. qurratun - coolness, delight. aqarra (vb. 4) - to confirm, cause to rest or remain. istaqarra (vb. 10) - to remain firm. mustaqirrun - that which remains firmly fixed or confirmed, in hiding, is lasting, which certainly comes to pass, which is settled in its being/goal/purpose. mustaqar - firmly fixed/established, sojourn, abode. qurratun - coolness, refreshment, source of joy and comfort. qawarir (pl. of qaruratun) - glasses, crystals. LANES LEXICON)
Is not He (best) Who made the earth fixed place and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any Allah beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not! (An-Naml 61)
Allah it is Who appointed for you the earth a dwelling-place and the sky for a canopy, and fashioned you and perfected your shapes, and hath provided you with good things. Such is Allah, your Lord. Then blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds! (Ghaafir 64)
Is the translation correct? Does the verses convey the message that the earth is stationary? YOUR HELP IS NEEDED.
Salaam,
Thank you very much brother for bringing up this topic and aayaat in relation bravo
As per 3541 if this earth is stable then all the skies are also stable.To me Qaaf-Ra-Ra means rest/stay. Please take a look at 225.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
I see that it says that we should recognize that our world is not just a random heap of molecules that exists by itself. I see that it says that we should acknowledge the governing power of the world. We should see a deliberate design.
Peace brother,
Absolutely! bravo
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace Wakas
Perhaps you can clarify, as per Quran, what you are referring to by "heavens"?
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (Al-Anbiyaa 30)
who created seven heavens in layers. You do not see in the creation of the Most Merciful any inconsistency. So return vision ; do you see any breaks? (Al-Mulk 3)
It is Allah who erected the heavens without pillars that you see; then He established Himself above the Throne and made subject the sun and the moon, each running for a specified term. He arranges matter; He details the signs that you may, of the meeting with your Lord, be certain. (Ar-Ra'd 2)
And We have made the heaven a roof, safe/guarded, and from the signs there of they are averters 2132
And assuredly We have bedecked the nearest heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for satans and for them We have gotten ready the torment of the Blaze 675
Then He decreed them as seven heavens in two days, and revealed Unto each heaven the command thereof; and We bedecked the nether heaven with lamps and placed therein a guard. That is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knower 4112
And We have placed in the heaven great stars and have beautified it for the observers. (Al-Hijr 16)
Blessed is He who has placed in the heaven great stars and placed therein a lamp and luminous moon. (Al-Furqaan 61)
To Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. Whether you show what is within yourselves or conceal it, Allah will bring you to account for it. Then He will forgive whom He wills and punish whom He wills, and Allah is over all things competent. (Al-Baqara 284)
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Peace,
These verses about the heavens, sometimes known as the "firmament" look like they fit perfectly when applied to the Concave Earth theory.
It is often times confused with the Flat Earth and the Hollow Earth theories which are much different.
Below is a video of the model.-MG
https//youtu.be/wC79vDkb-1c
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Indeed, Earth does not "spin" around itself while whirling/revolving roundabout helios, a "giant fire ball" (400 times its scale) ~ neither in the Qurn (Divine Guidance), nor in Reality (Sense Experience) ! It's the sun/moon luminaries and stars that move/circulate above us in the heavens, each hovering about a fulcrum ? The earth (QA ) is at rest.
?Let ?imagination? picture to the mind what force air would have which was set in motion by a spherical body of 8,000 miles in diameter, which in one hour was spinning round 1,000 mph, rushing through space at 65,000 mph and gyrating across the heavens? Then let ?conjecture? endeavor to discover whether the inhabitants on such a globe could keep their hair on?
If the earth-globe rotates on its axis at the terrific rate of 1,000 miles an hour, such an immense mass would of necessity cause a tremendous rush of wind in the space it occupied. The wind would go all one way, and anything like clouds which got ?within the sphere of influence? of the rotating sphere, would have to go the same way. The fact that the earth is at rest is proved by kite flying.?
Thomas Winships
Did i mention Earth's perfectly observable and measurable FLATness ?
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Hi,
From "the quran" we can also learn that the roof of the earth has a lot of doors and when those doors are opened water falls down, evidence
5411 So We opened the doors of the sky with pouring water.Oh and the earth has eyes yes evidence
5412 And We caused eyes to gush out of the earth. Thus the waters met to a command which had been measured.Quran confirms this all yes
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Qaf-Ra-Ra = to be or become cool, remain quiet, be steadfast, be firm, refresh, be stable, be firm, receive satisfy, affirm, agree, settle, last. qarar - stability, a fixed or secure place
yeh earth is fixed... but fixed in a orbit that what the meaning of fixing,,, fixing volume in running sound dosent make the sound at rest... and other words make it more clear that's the quality of gravity that make u stable like we assume in a running bus that our body is in rest but infact its in motion so when you jump from it body make u push forward so its imp to run and make motions match.. hafiz sahib inertia ,,,
secured place ,, well the meaning are not contradicting but it gives us more explaination..that even in the motion of earth we behave and feel stable ,, that's what allah want to tell you to amaze on it..
Allah it is Who appointed for you the earth a dwelling-place
we need to thanks to allah he is telling us how he controls all the physical laws of physics and make it possible for you to dwell/live/habitate on earth.. earth is appointed as other celestial bodies but earth appointed for living sun appointed for giving heat light energy and obviously gravitational force... moon stars tree water aww everything is appointed for reason.
Is not He (best) Who made the earth fixed place and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any Allah beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not! (An-Naml 61)
Is the translation correct? Does the verses convey the message that the earth is stationary? YOUR HELP IS NEEDED.
hmm there is nothing difficult to understand in all these ayats of quran.. where is addresses it motionless and stationalry infact all things are in harmony and support of movement lets look at last ayat he made earth fixed in a orbit so gravity makes it fixed for you to hold you down ... as soon you go to look the full verse more hidden meaning will be prevail and rivers in the fold thereof,,, what does this mean to you have you ever encounter a river that is not running ... every river is running and travel downward .. in flat earth is this possible tell me honestly.. in the case of motion less flat earth water cycle is not possible as we know water travel downward.
next is placed firm hills in it.. the know how mountains work the one third size of mountain is on top of surface and more than double size of mountain is in earth same when u hook some nail in the wall... but again do u really think mountain are fixed,, na my frd there are plates that cause earthquake some times...
next is we placed a barrier between two seas ,, what does this mean.. a barrier of gravity as well as properties of heavy/salty water and soft/drinking water.. a barrier of gravity holds the water at the surface and heavy water always stay away from light water and light water finally evaporates...
for more details look Archimedes principal of floating bodies.. we know water can only sink a thing which is heavier than water weight.. so automatically heavy water stay where it is and light water never sink in depthness..furthermore it stays in planet .. in flat earth motionless model Archimedes principal cant work,,
Portuguese exploration of Africa and Asia, Columbus's voyage to the Americas (1492) and finally Ferdinand Magellan's circumnavigation of the Earth (1519?21) provided the final, practical proofs for the global shape of the Earth.
and ending part of verse but most of them dnt know... here is the answer for this
A later classic Sunni commentary, the Tafsir al-Jalalayn written in the early 16th century says "As for His words sutihat, ?laid out flat?, this on a literal reading suggests that the earth is flat, which is the opinion of most of the scholars of the Law, and not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-hay?a) have it, even if this does not contradict any of the pillars of the Law. Other translations render "made flat" as "spread out".
The evidence for that is the verse in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning) ?And the mountains as pegs? . He called them awtaad (pegs) even though these mountains may have large flat surfaces. And the same is true in this case."
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A later classic Sunni commentary, the Tafsir al-Jalalayn written in the early 16th century says "As for His words sutihat, ?laid out flat?, this on a literal reading suggests that the earth is flat, which is the opinion of most of the scholars of the Law, and not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-hay?a) have it, even if this does not contradict any of the pillars of the Law. Other translations render "made flat" as "spread out".
Indeed, QA. soiat (ت, the passive form of vb. saaa (َ , doesn't mean Earth got "spread out" (as the majority miscalculate) but lit. translates as it got flattened, or made level, ie. laid out flat ? put into tabular form.
Earth has no https//1.bp.blogspot.com/-TxHdsKWB3Eg/VuQC9EwBnpI/AAAAAAAAAjY/3vwvpjpaW2gre7gcUmy1FWsdsPPz7LdWA/s1600/398b8c3e58e961cdea0fe626771f3243.png
It's planate, not a "planet".http//airpano.ru/files/Stratosphere-Caucasus/images/image2.jpg
http//airpano.ru/files/Stratosphere-Caucasus/images/image1.jpg
Photographs by Denis Efremov ? 2015 Project AirPano (Flight to Stratosphere)
