Time To Change Your Paradigm
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Has anyone ever considered the word in Quran used for earth may not always refer to 'planet earth' but has a rather broad linguistic meaning of 'land/soil/ground/terrain' as well?
In my understanding its even used more encompassing in some verses as 'matter', being opposed to non-matter. Especially in those verses where it is mentioned in contrast to 'the Heavens'.
Peace
Yes ardh can also mean land, with plural aradhi, lands, as always it depends on the context of the verse.
but when it refers to Earth, it uses the definite article, Al Al Ardh.
there is also a verse, I cannot recall which, landing itself to mean that Allah created Earth and several others like it.
the model pazuzu is pushing is an infinite plane of ice, with domes protruding, each being an Earth, it is interesting, even fascinating, but not supported by evidence or mathematical / physical models...
Salaam
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What surprises me most is the denial we are capable to go to space. One can see the ISS with the naked eye for crying out loud.
I am a really big Kubrick fan and I know it's not true Kubrick hoaxed the moon landing. Its impossible he did for many reasons.
Filmmaker Stanley Kubrick is accused of having produced much of the footage for Apollos 11 and 12, presumably because he had just directed 2001 A Space Odyssey, which is partly set on the Moon and featured advanced special effects. It has been claimed that when 2001 was in post-production in early 1968, NASA secretly approached Kubrick to direct the first three Moon landings. The launch and splashdown would be real but the spacecraft would stay in Earth orbit and fake footage broadcast as "live from the Moon." No evidence was offered for this theory, which overlooks many facts. For example, 2001 was released before the first Apollo landing and Kubrick's depiction of the Moon's surface is much different from its appearance in Apollo video, film and photography. Kubrick did hire Frederick Ordway and Harry Lange, both of whom had worked for NASA and major aerospace contractors, to work with him on 2001. Kubrick also used some 50 mm f/0.7 lenses that were left over from a batch made by Zeiss for NASA. However, Kubrick only got this lens for Barry Lyndon (1975). The lens was originally a still-photo lens and needed changes to be used for motion filming.
The mockumentary based on this idea, Dark Side of the Moon, could have fueled the conspiracy theory. This French mockumentary, directed by William Karel, was originally aired on Arte channel in 2002 with the title Op?ration Lune. It parodies conspiracy theories with faked interviews, stories of assassinations of Stanley Kubrick's assistants by the CIA, and a variety of conspicuous mistakes, puns and references to old movie characters, inserted through the film as clues for the viewer. Nevertheless,Op?ration Lune is still taken at face value by some conspiracy believers.
There was a similar hoax article, originally posted as a joke, but which has been quoted as in earnest by Clyde Lewis
Peace
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@pazuzu
why are there earth quakes, and volcanoes? angry demons?
all theoretical models have their limits, density and force are closely linked, we can measure force, it is a good model to predict phenomena, and most our industries are based on it, there is also electricity, magnetism, etc, all accounted for...
similarly, the flat earth model is also an approximation.
is it closer to reality than a planetary model?
I am not convinced.
It takes a lot of convincing to get humans cooperating on small issues, I do not buy it that Russians, Americans, Indians and Chinese will not have Scientists coming forward denouncing what you are telling is going on.
Your obsession with the paedophile Stanley Kubrick is disconcerting.
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@pazuzu salaam,
further, 3 points
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since the "renaissance" and the current implementation of modern Science, there has been an acceleration in development of means to marshal the environment, this is how I appraise a paradigm, its practical success, the church with its clinging to old models of nature failed, this current model we are using has been a success.
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that Antarctica matter, why does it have to be what Flat Earthers are advocating, i.e. the rim boundaries of the supposed dome, there might be other things they are hiding they do not want the public to see.
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if there was a rim wall of ice, do you believe Allah is behind it? whereas he made it clear to Moses that we cannot get to see him ever, until JD, and besides, whatever model and reality, Allah said clearly that those who do not believe will never do whatever you show them, and he specifically talked of an ascension to the heavens, with a day 50,000 years of what you reckon, so so close, but takes 50,000 years to reach?
Try better and harder, but do you have the means of your ambitions, or just second hand reports?
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your credibility has been shattered, you are not a Believer.
What is this?
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why are there earth quakes, and volcanoes? angry demons?
Peace,
Brother, Its really pathetic to see some irrelevant query and reply in this thread from you,who used to be a rational thinker. As you claimed yourself an ex scientist, would you please tell me which parts of science and technologies will collapse if we believe that the earth is flat? Does the missile, airplane,rocket,telephone,satellite TV technologies have anything to do with flat earth or round earth?
We are only claiming that THE EARTH IS FLAT. We are not throwing science or scientific approach.I believe that FLAT EARTH is the best logical & rational approach toward science.One should keep in mind that, The spherical earth model has not established over night. Okay I agree there are some unanswered issue regarding flat earth model but that does not mean the whole model is bullshit. Its need time.Most of all we are against mainstream SO CALLED science. Let's wait and keep exploration.
If at the end of the day it proves that the earth is round,we can ease our heart by saying that we have verified the truth by ourselves and it is not our by born believe.As far your questions are concerned
Why are there volcanoes? Why do they erupt?
Volcanoes are just a natural way that the Earth and other planets have of cooling off and releasing internal heat and pressure.
Volcanoes erupt because of density and pressure. The lower density of the magma relative to the surrounding rocks causes it to rise (like air bubbles in syrup). It will rise to the surface or to a depth that is determined by the density of the magma and the weight of the rocks above it. As the magma rises, bubbles start to form from the gas dissolved in the magma. The gas bubbles exert tremendous pressure. This pressure helps to bring the magma to the surface and forces it in the air, sometimes to great heights.
It's sort of like the bubbles of gas in a bottle of soda. Before you open the soda you don't see many bubbles because the pressure in the bottle keeps the gas dissolved in the soda. When you open the bottle the pressure is released and the gas bubbles leave the soda. If you shake up the bottle first, the soda gets pushed out by the bubbles of gas as they rush out.
You might try this, but do it outside...
Why Do Earthquakes Happen?
Earthquakes are usually caused when rock underground suddenly breaks along a fault. This sudden release of energy causes the seismic waves that make the ground shake. When two blocks of rock or two plates are rubbing against each other, they stick a little. They don't just slide smoothly; the rocks catch on each other. The rocks are still pushing against each other, but not moving. After a while, the rocks break because of all the pressure that's built up. When the rocks break, the earthquake occurs. During the earthquake and afterward, the plates or blocks of rock start moving, and they continue to move until they get stuck again. The spot underground where the rock breaks is called the focus of the earthquake. The place right above the focus (on top of the ground) is called the epicenter of the earthquake.
Try this little experiment
Break a block of foam rubber in half.
Put the pieces on a smooth table.
Put the rough edges of the foam rubber pieces together.
While pushing the two pieces together lightly, push one piece away from you along the table top while pulling the other piece toward you. See how they stick?
Keep pushing and pulling smoothly.Soon a little bit of foam rubber along the crack (the fault) will break and the two pieces will suddenly slip past each other. That sudden breaking of the foam rubber is the earthquake. That's just what happens along a strike-slip fault.
Earthquake-like seismic waves can also be caused by explosions underground. These explosions may be set off to break rock while making tunnels for roads, railroads, subways, or mines. These explosions, however, don't cause very strong seismic waves. You may not even feel them. Sometimes seismic waves occur when the roof or walls of a mine collapse. These can sometimes be felt by people near the mine. The largest underground explosions, from tests of nuclear warheads (bombs), can create seismic waves very much like large earthquakes. This fact has been exploited as a means to enforce the global nuclear test ban, because no nuclear warhead can be detonated on earth without producing such seismic waves.
Now my respected brother, Is there anything in above answer That says Volcanoes or Earthquakes happen Because of SPHERICAL EARTH shape?
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@ Man Of Faith
Salaam brother,
Thank you for your thought provoking questions. I know you don't believe in most of the interpretation of Quran out there are right,do you?
So brother if you don't mind, may I have your own interpretation of the verses cited below?1518 Except he who manages to eavesdrop, he will be pursued by a visible flame.
378 They cannot listen to the command up high; and they are bombarded from every side.
3710 Any of them who snatches a part, he is pursued by a piercing flame.
728 ?And we touched the heavens, but found it full of powerful guards and projectiles.?
729 ?And we used to sit in it in places of listening, but anyone who sits now finds a projectile seeking him.?
How do flat earthers explain signs of meteor or comet hits on the Earth surface?
And how about meteorites that actually have been shown to hit the surface? Is GOD throwing down rocks?
I will try to answer this question after you provide those interpretations.
May Allah increase our limit of rational thinking
regards
z.neion -
Peace,
Peace
At least you make some efforts at humility, instead of just dropping the Earth is Flat, as some Flat Earthers do...
Well with due respect, I am always open to new findings, but for now, what is available to me proves to my mind that the Planetary system is a valid model to explain this Universe.
If there is a breakthrough and demonstrable evidence is put forward that invalidates the model, I will of course accept that.
Flat Earthers have been incapable to bring out in the open such contrary evidence to the failings of the Planetary System put forward by Astronomers and Scientists.
Until then, enjoy your speculation and sofa discussions.
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Salam everyone,
Experimental science is different from theoretical science! For instance, the Egyptians built the pyramids without General/Special theory of relativity or Quantum Mechanics; or believing in whatever the earth is like!
Pazuzu is quite right that Einstein's theory of relativity is not confirmed yet.
When you want to find something that the theory predicts you will tend to disregard all the other possibilities and try to do away with anomalies!
Special Theory of Relativity has two Postulates
1- All observers on frames of reference moving uniformly in a straight line at any velocity obtain the same velocity of light relative to their frame of reference.
2- The velocity of light is a constant independent of the velocity of the source.
How much do we really know that these two assumptions are correct?
As neion zobayed also suggested, human emotions, creativity, thoughts and curiosity do not depend on whether the earth is flat or a globe.
This thread is 42~43 pages long now but I can find some posts as only sarcasm and name-calling, two things that are prohibited clearly in the Qur'an and should be followed accordingly-regardless of the earth being flat or globe!
We need to remember that much of the current physical/cosmological sciences is based upon assumptions made centuries ago. And as I speak for myself, am ready to unlearn what I have learned and accept new theories, even if they are called Conspiracy Theories.
Do you know how scientific community works?! They accept a theory and try to prove it right. When they find evidence that can be provided by other methods and theories too, they tend to give credit to the most popular theory.
We can manipulate our observations and fool our brain in order to see evidence that our theory/set of beliefs wants us to see.
Come on brothers! Let's stop the non-productive discussion and grab a book and read it now!
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Do you know how scientific community works?! They accept a theory and try to prove it right. When they find evidence that can be provided by other methods and theories too, they tend to give credit to the most popular theory.
Clearly you don't understand how the scientific community works. Peer reviews have nothing to do with popularity nor democracy, but everything with empirical evidence.
Peace
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Peace all,
when someone keeps bashing scientists as occultists shit eaters, and dreams up a web of deceit aimed at fooling everyone, this is paranoia and psychosis...
sticking to the evidence and the facts, without referring to coded messages from film producers with dubious morality, and artistic painters turned scientific geniuses will be a good start...
besides some of these occultists are not just shit eaters, they are also Satanists, of the dangerous kind, they sacrifice children to Ba'al and sodomise them, Kubrick was a member, as Clarke, I would not wish to put myself or anyone else in the cross hair of such people, unless I am suicidal which I am not...
so given a choice between being right about a flat earth, and not being compromised physically, I would rather steer clear of their mess, and deal with mine own in my backyard, it's their world, they will be be judged accordingly, if Allah gives the means to defeat them, that's another matter, but they control the airwaves, it is Don Quixote fighting windmills, so good luck to you, Flat Earthers.
As entertainment, it might be interesting as an X-files, maybe they'll make a series out of it, to discredit it one way or another.
Ah and it also reminds me of the title book, Rebel without a Cause, only the typical conspiracy theorist finds his cause, in this case Flat Earth, and a nice outlet for the typical hatred of authority from religion and history, to science...
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besides some of these occultists are not just shit eaters, they are also Satanists, of the dangerous kind, they sacrifice children to Ba'al and sodomise them, Kubrick was a member, as Clarke, I would not wish to put myself or anyone else in the cross hair of such people, unless I am suicidal which I am not...
So, you're afraid of them?
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How about guys like you and pazuzu identify yourself, if you are so courageous, instead of posting behind cryptic nicks,
you can find me on twitter and facebook, through my twitter handle @inabster.
I am not born a martyr for dubious causes I don't believe in, but the status quo can lead the perpetrators to take action against you if you threaten their hegemony, are you prepared for that, your best protection might be to identify yourself and go into the open, but are you articulate enough, have enough backing for that?
many idiots get killed going for dubious jihad they are tricked into, go ahead, be canon fodder for the realm ) LOL!
Peace
Nabil
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How about guys like you and pazuzu identify yourself,
Perhaps someday if we're ready.
I did not say that I do not have fear, but it doesn't mean that I would deny something that I recognized as truth.
However... your post seemed to suggest that you "acknowledge" that Pazuzu told something true - but you don't want to admit it because you're afraid of those occultists.
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Perhaps someday if we're ready.
I did not say that I do not have fear, but it doesn't mean that I would deny something that I recognized as truth.
However... your post seemed to suggest that you "acknowledge" that Pazuzu told something true, but you don't want to admit it because you're afraid of those occultists.
What I acknowledged if you read me carefully is that these "occultists" have something to hide... that's their business, I don't care what it is so long as it does not interfere with my integrity and safety.
The rest about Flat Earth is that it is not convincing to me or any of the Scientists from very varied backgrounds and expertise I have ever known or come into contact with, and I have as I used to be a project co-ordinator for a seed technology investor.
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As Hezbollah are a Shia group, I can neither be a sympathiser, nor a member, but I acknowledge them for their efforts to help in Lebanon and Palestine against Zionism and also Syria against Daesh (aka ISIS), who are worse than any group, as I consider them Satanists in fact.
ISIS are definitely Satanists, funded by Satanists.
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. . . '___' ?
Do you think my username is cryptic?
Well pazuzu's definitely is, what I mean is a username that does not give a clue as to whom you are.
It ceases to be cryptic when you unveil your ID, not that it will bother NSA or GCHQ to easily find out, btw.