:: How to... Salaat, Saum, Hajj, Zakaat! ::
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Do you want me to expiate for something that I do not think is a proper translation?
You know what I believe? I believe that ritualistic fast is a hoax.
But I am proceeding on that reinterpretation and translation project I am working on and I am steadily approaching those passages in question. In a while I will deliver what those passages talk about.
Be well
Peace Man of Faith, correct me where I'm wrong, thus far you
do not believe in a defensive war, ritual salat, ritual fast, hajj, the qiblah
being Mecca, the Quran's general interpretation as it is today. You do believe
one can be one/meld/blend with the Rabb, you prefer use of the word
Rabb instead Allah, and you mention/inspired by Jesus more than Muhammad.God bless
peace
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Peace Man of Faith, correct me where I'm wrong, thus far you
do not believe in a defensive war, ritual salat, ritual fast, hajj, the qiblah
being Mecca, the Quran's general interpretation as it is today. You do believe
one can be one/meld/blend with the Rabb, you prefer use of the word
Rabb instead Allah, and you mention/inspired by Jesus more than Muhammad.I don't know about his view on defensive war,
but the rest seems to be a suitable summary of MoF... now.
@ MoF, what happened to you?
Bold This is risky, MoF, don't you understand?
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Hawk99,
I do not really do it because I prefer Rabb. I say it because allah does not mean anything like Rabb.
I know Jesus more than a person than Muhammad yes. Muhammad is a warlord and warmonger and an unrighteous man according to tradition.
You become symbiont with the Rabb because it is like being connected to a mainframe. But just like you I see the Rabb way beyond myself and it is my Sustainer (as the word indicates). It is ultimately Oneness as unlike you and Javalatte here I do not affirm duality of existence which I actually call slightly tantamount to idolatry. Nor do I equal myself with the Rabb as it is the platform I am dependent on and it can do anything it likes with me if it wills. However, I can sync with the platform and gain its abilities to the extent it grants me them. And to cling unto the Rabb is the only way I can become separated from the flesh permanently.
The Rabb said "Do not take an image of anything in HEAVEN or Earth and worship it. For that you clearly have separated the Rabb from the Oneness. (Pantheism or what to say is the only way you affirm Oneness).
Defensive war is situational. I only know Quran does not delve into that much because it is not its purpose of teaching. But obviously you do not have to stand apathetic if someone is going to storm your land and home.
By the way, I ran across a word for murder or slay in Quran for you Thaal-Ba-Ha. That is an outright word for to slay someone.
As for the ritualism you mentioned. No I do not put my faith in such.
Be well
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Javalatte,
Not if you have not done anything wrong and have insight and strong evidence which supports your claims. Do you think I would be a rambling man? No I have spent the last years in intensive study.
It is only your worship of the idol allateh which blinds you. Wish you could open up your eyes and see it is you who should be aware.
Be well
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Nor do I equal myself with the Rabb as it is the platform I am dependent on and it can do anything it likes with me if it wills.
Yeah!
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Yeah!
Good we are on terms.
Be well you humble one
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231-11
Successful indeed are the believers
those who humble themselves in their prayer salat, (Allatheena hum fee salatihim khashiAAoona)
and who turn away from all that is frivolous,
Those who of purification works (are) doers,
And who guard their private parts,
except with their wives, and what their right hands possess for then they are free from blame,
But whoso craveth beyond that, such are transgressors -
Those who faithfully observe their trusts and their covenant;
And those who keep a guard on their prayers salawat; Waallatheena hum AAala salawatihim yuhafithoona
These are the heirs
Who will inherit paradise. There they will abide.Yes the issue is what is SALAT?
Peace -
peace
Quote from Novice on June 27, 2015, 032915 PM
@Man of Faith thanks brother for defining Muminoon. Of course a Mumin is not a follower of empty rituals to credit his account book for rewards but is an actor with the goal to provide peace to others and to himself as well.@ FreedomStands Muminoon have been defined in Qur'an. Please consider 231-11
231-11
Successful indeed are the believers
those who humble themselves in their prayer, (Allatheena hum fee salatihim khashiAAoona)
and who turn away from all that is frivolous,
Those who of purification works (are) doers,
And who guard their private parts,
except with their wives, and what their right hands possess for then they are free from blame,
But whoso craveth beyond that, such are transgressors -
Those who faithfully observe their trusts and their covenant;
And those who keep a guard on their prayers; Waallatheena hum AAala salawatihim yuhafithoona
These are the heirs
Who will inherit paradise. There they will abide.Is the above a definition of a muminoon or a definition of SUCCESSFUL MUMINOON who will inherit paradise?
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peace
Is the above a definition of a muminoon or a definition of SUCCESSFUL MUMINOON who will inherit paradise?
Salaam hafeez kazi
( (
Success is really attained by the believers (1) Who concentrate their attention in humbleness when offering Salah (prayers) (2) (Yousuf Ali)
Successful are the believers, Those who humbly and whole-heartedly follow Divine Commands (Dr. Shabbir Ahmad)
It is defining Muminoon. It is not saying "successful believers are those who....rather "Successful are the believers who.......
Have peace
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Peace Novice
The believers those, whose hearts thrill with fear when Allah is mentioned, and when His revelations are rehearsed unto them, they increase their faith and who trust in their Lord. WHO establish prayer and who expend of that wherewith We have provided them. Those are they who are in truth believers. For them are grades (of honor) with their Lord, and pardon, and a bountiful provision. 82/3/4
Virtue is not in this that ye turn your faces toward the east and west, but virtue is of him who believed in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Book and the prophets and gives wealth in spite of love for it unto kindred and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and the beggars and for redeeming necks, and ESTABLISHED prayer and gave Zakat and is of the performers of their covenant when they have covenanted; and is of the patient in adversity and affliction and in time or violence these are they who are proven true, and these they are MUTTAQEN 2177
Thanks
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The believers those, whose hearts thrill with fear when Allah is mentioned, and when His revelations are rehearsed unto them, they increase their faith and who trust in their Lord. WHO establish prayer and who expend of that wherewith We have provided them. Those are they who are in truth believers. For them are grades (of honor) with their Lord, and pardon, and a bountiful provision. 82/3/4
Virtue is not in this that ye turn your faces toward the east and west, but virtue is of him who believed in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Book and the prophets and gives wealth in spite of love for it unto kindred and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and the beggars and for redeeming necks, and ESTABLISHED prayer and gave Zakat and is of the performers of their covenant when they have covenanted; and is of the patient in adversity and affliction and in time or violence these are they who are proven true, and these they are MUTTAQEN 2177
Salaam brother hafeez kazi
What the red part in 2177 means? When one turns his face towards east and west? Why traditional translations make salah=prayer and zakat=charity tax @ 2.5% whereas in Arabic root S-L-W means to follow closely and zaka means to give growth. Why root meanings of the key words in Qur'an are changed to promote certain rituals?
Having said that we are free to follow what we choose to follow. No compulsion in DEEN. )
Have peace.
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peace brother Novice
What the red part in 2177 means?
It is a definition of a believer in truth and a definition of muttaqeen.
When one turns his face towards east and west?
It is that question which has bewildered me for the last 14 years and still unable to understand the righteousness behind the physical turning of face towards east or west.
Why traditional translations make salah=prayer and zakat=charity tax @ 2.5% whereas in Arabic root S-L-W means to follow closely and zaka means to give growth
Zakat in the Quran never means charity and one of the proof is in the above verse 2177
Those who gave wealth ................................. and gave charity they are those who are muttaqeen. It means a poor man cannot become muttaqqen because he cannot give zakat. What is the fault of that poor man when Allah has not given him the resources to give zakat? If everyone gives zakat then who will receive zakat? Did Allah ever say a rich man should give zakat and a poor man can receive zakat.
The Believers, men (RICH and POOR) and women (RICH and POOR), are protectors one of another they (men/women/ RICH/POOR) advice with kindness, and restrain (each other) from evil they (men/women/RICH/POOR) establish prayer and (they) (men/women/RICH/POOR) give charity, and (they), (men/women/RICH/POOR) obey Allah and His Messenger. On them (men/women/RICH/POOR) will Allah pour His mercy for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise 971
Is there anyone who is exempted from praying? Is there anyone who is exempted from obeying Allah and His messenger?
The believers are establishers of prayer and givers of ZAKAT, there is nothing in the verse wherein it says that those believers who are poor are exempted from establishing the prayer or from giving of ZAKAT or from obeying the messenger. Irrespective of being male or female, irrespective of being poor or rich everyone has to establish the prayer, give ZAKAT and obey the messenger. If ZAKAT is accepted as charity then it contradicts the above verse because the poor cannot give ZAKAT whereas all believers must establish prayer and give ZAKAT.
Ask any sectarian about SADAQAH, which is completely detailed in the Quran, you will get a reply of silence but when you ask them about zakat they will reply with evidences from hadith and not Quran. Such is the knowledge of the Quran of the so called Muslims.
About Salat you will have to wait some more time.
Thanks
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Hawk99,
I do not really do it because I prefer Rabb. I say it because allah does not mean anything like Rabb.
I know Jesus more than a person than Muhammad yes. Muhammad is a warlord and warmonger and an unrighteous man according to tradition.
You become symbiont with the Rabb because it is like being connected to a
mainframe. But just like you I see the Rabb way beyond myself and it is
my Sustainer (as the word indicates). It is ultimately Oneness as unlike you
and Javalatte here I do not affirm duality of existence which I actually call
slightly tantamount to idolatry. Nor do I equal myself with the Rabb as it is
the platform I am dependent on and it can do anything it likes with me if it
wills. However, I can sync with the platform and gain its abilities to
the extent it grants me them. And to cling unto the Rabb is the only way I
can become separated from the flesh permanently.The Rabb said "Do not take an image of anything in HEAVEN or Earth and
worship it. For that you clearly have separated the Rabb from the Oneness.
(Pantheism or what to say is the only way you affirm Oneness).Defensive war is situational. I only know Quran does not delve into that much
because it is not its purpose of teaching. But obviously you do not have to stand
apathetic if someone is going to storm your land and home.By the way, I ran across a word for murder or slay in Quran for you Thaal-Ba-Ha.
That is an outright word for to slay someone.As for the ritualism (fast) you mentioned. No I do not put my faith in such.
Be well
Thank you Man of Faith for taking time to respond to my query.
A casual reader of the above post might conclude that the above speaker
may be Muslim but, not a believer because of his opinions and viewpoints.God bless you
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Hawk99,
A casual reader of the above post might conclude that the above speaker
may be Muslim but, not a believer because of his opinions and viewpoints.This does not have anything to do with belief so yes this person is no believer.
Muslim means to be a sound person so I take it as a compliment, although still not because I know you do not really know what you are talking about.
Be well
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Thanks brother hafeez kazi for discussing these important aspects of our DEEN in a very positive manner. We must strive on the way of learning.
It is that question which has bewildered me for the last 14 years and still unable to understand the righteousness behind the physical turning of face towards east or west.
May be it is referring to the ritualistic actions.
Zakat in the Quran never means charity and one of the proof is in the above verse 2177
Those who gave wealth ................................. and gave charity they are those who are muttaqeen. It means a poor man cannot become muttaqqen because he cannot give zakat. What is the fault of that poor man when Allah has not given him the resources to give zakat? If everyone gives zakat then who will receive zakat? Did Allah ever say a rich man should give zakat and a poor man can receive zakat.
I have tried to explain it in my circle and some of my friends and family has understood the Qur'anic concept of zakat. They understand now what is the difference between sadaqa and zakat.
The Believers, men (RICH and POOR) and women (RICH and POOR), are protectors one of another they (men/women/ RICH/POOR) advice with kindness, and restrain (each other) from evil they (men/women/RICH/POOR) establish prayer and (they) (men/women/RICH/POOR) give charity, and (they), (men/women/RICH/POOR) obey Allah and His Messenger. On them (men/women/RICH/POOR) will Allah pour His mercy for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise 971
Lughat ul Quran by Parvez Ahmed suggests that in Quran the term Allah and His Massenger means the Divine system. That makes sense because Massenger would only say what Allah has said.
Is there anyone who is exempted from praying? Is there anyone who is exempted from obeying Allah and His messenger?
The believers are establishers of prayer and givers of ZAKAT, there is nothing in the verse wherein it says that those believers who are poor are exempted from establishing the prayer or from giving of ZAKAT or from obeying the messenger. Irrespective of being male or female, irrespective of being poor or rich everyone has to establish the prayer, give ZAKAT and obey the messenger. If ZAKAT is accepted as charity then it contradicts the above verse because the poor cannot give ZAKAT whereas all believers must establish prayer and give ZAKAT.
Ask any sectarian about SADAQAH, which is completely detailed in the Quran, you will get a reply of silence but when you ask them about zakat they will reply with evidences from hadith and not Quran. Such is the knowledge of the Quran of the so called Muslims.
Thats why Muslims are so backward and humiliated everywhere in this world. They cannot get out of it untill they hold Allah's Book and leave all man made conjectures.
Have peace.
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Hawk99,
This does not have anything to do with belief so yes this person is no believer.
Peace Man of Faith
If you would notice I said a casual observer may conclude that such a person
would not be a believer.Muslim means to be a sound person so I take it as a compliment, although still not because I know you do not really know what you are talking about.
Be well
So how would you translate, or how do you understand 49/14?
One can submit, accept, resign to, acknowledge, conform to the tenets of Islam (Muslim)
which are indeed sound but why such grandiosity, nitpicking your own personal meaning?God bless
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Hawk99,
It is a misconception that it is my meaning. If you browse quite very old lexicons on Arabic with the oldest even over 1000 years you can find the definitions which I am propagating, so they are hardly "my" meanings.
What I am saying is the Sustainer's meanings as used in the language of correspondence and hardly "my" words.
However, Arabic words seem to have multiple meanings due to lexicons, but that is a false fact. Arabic words mean only one general meaning due to that they speak descriptively by using their letters. It is thus fairly easy to learn Arabic, and Aramaic although the Arabic script is a great enhancement.
What you and many people are doing however is succumbing to ancient as well as contemporary scholars who do/did not really have any clue about what they were doing. That is by following these scholars without reflection whether they are/were really true or false.
What I am doing however is digging for the treasure and aiming to show it to the world without merely talking.
But you cannot say I am baseless because I am following a methodology and I use sources (e.g. lexicons) and I provide documentation on my Personal Computer. It is for the beholder themselves to decide whether they will accept it in the end, but the evidence is growing every day. You have not been able to change your mind based on circumstantial evidence, but one day in not a too far distant future you will have available the full reinterpretation of Quran as intended by the Author rather than one according to scholars without knowledge.
You see people around me, hafez kazi, Novice etc are already tagging along and doing their individual research on salat for they have discovered the inconsistency with many things including this so-called salat ritual and sometimes they point to things not even I had thought about.
But you like I have parroted many times accept praying birds and weirdly sounding passages to justify your pagan ritual (it is pagan because pagan means basically physical literally and not as insult).
It was Novice or Hafez Kazi who highlighted inconsistency with 56 the other day even using traditional grammar rules.
I continue to say. Wake up!
Be well
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This does not have anything to do with belief so yes this person is no believer.
Peace Man of Faith so to add to the previous list we can say that you are not a believer?
Hawk99,
It is a misconception that it is my meaning. If you browse quite very old lexicons on Arabic with the oldest even over 1000 years you can find the definitions which I am propagating, so they are hardly "my" meanings.
What I am saying is the Sustainer's meanings as used in the language of correspondence and hardly "my" words.
However, Arabic words seem to have multiple meanings due to lexicons, but that is a false fact. Arabic words mean only one general meaning due to that they speak descriptively by using their letters.
Here you say Arabic words have no synonyms?
By the way, I ran across a word for murder or slay in Quran for you Thaal-Ba-Ha. That is an outright word for to slay someone.
Yes, Thaal-Ba-Ha means to slaughter, massacre and appears
to be synonymous with Q-T-L kill.Have you taken to the huruf, abjad sciences?
God bless you
peace
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hawk99,
Yes. I am a knower and not believer. Amen means to acknowledge something and not believe. Think/suppose/believe you have in . Look it up. For your information, in the real interpretation of Quran it is used negatively.
I know you think you are smart and I do not notice your attemps at eliciting and painting me in a bad weather.
Arabic has words with similar meaning.
But qatal means to DEFEAT, SUBDUE OR MASTER SOMEONE.
It can also refer to defeating someone in a discussion and make them submit your argument when they see you are right.
If you defeat someone and they die you need to specify it in Arabic or qatal means you just beat them so they cannot fight you back anymore or yield.
Be well
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hawk99,
I know you think you are smart and I do not notice your attemps at eliciting and painting me in a bad weather.
On the contrary, you are the artist that is doing the painting,
I encourage you to give your opinions, how you respond is up to youYes. I am a knower and not believer.
Above you paint yourself as a non-believer, my words or yours?
hawk99,
Arabic has words with similar meaning.
However, Arabic words seem to have multiple meanings due to lexicons,
but that is a false fact. Arabic words mean only one general meaning due
to that they speak descriptively by using their letters.Which of your two statements are true, please explain.
God bless