Dear KGB, your signiture....
-
Gentlemen,
I changed my mind getting involved in endless debates. If you believe that there will be more scriptures coming from God with new Prophets and Messenger (Prophets and Messengers are one and same) than I can't make you believe otherwise.
Let God settle this on the judgement day.
-
Peace,
We only asked for a verse?! LOL, you get wound up too easily!
Endless debates?! You only made 3 short posts on this thread, you only just started, this is not an endless debate, answers are there for the seekers to find, so let's seek in God's Word to learn about His System. Is that not okay?
But It's Ok I agree if you wish to settle things (didn't realise your so easily unsettled by my thoughts!)
Peace,
Nural
-
You read Qur'an and you believe that there will be more books, prophets, messengers coming from God than what are the chances that you will understand immediately if I give you verse references.
BTW there are many verses in Qur'an which lead to the conclusion that this is the final Message from God.
Read Qur'an, pray to God Almighty to guide you. This is all I have to say.
-
Peace.
Come on people, we all seem pretty sure that the Quran is the final scripture, but obviously God is going to be talking to us, he's going to talk to the believers on the last day. Lets not dump all the pressure on KGB.
KGB The answer is probably there in the Quran which will show that the Quran is the final scripture, (which is obvious because it has been preserved, unlike ther previous ones), its just that some people including myself want exact details as to where that is to satisfy ourselves that we hold no unfounded beliefs. We're not questioning as to why you write that in your signsture, we just thought you might be able to give exact references, doesn't matter if you don't, we don't, thats why we asked! Please don't be offended, we're all here to seek the truth.
If anyone does know such verses then come along and tell us on this thread.
Peace.
Natu on the line. -
Peace.
KGB, maybe this isn't the appropriate thread to discuss this but, Messengers/Prophets are not the same thing. (Open an appropriate thread and we shall discuss, God willing). If they were I don't see why God would use 2 different words to mean exactly the same person, there is a wee little difference. If you actually look at the usage of the words 'nabi' and 'rasool' in the Quran, the distinction is made clear. Check out the following link if you haven't already
http//www.quran-islam.org/113.html
Glad to discuss. Peace.
Natu on the line.
-
Peace Natu,
KGB, maybe this isn't the appropriate thread to discuss this but, Messengers/Prophets are not the same thing. (Open an appropriate thread and we shall discuss, God willing)
There are a couple of threads dealing with this subject, but here's a recent one. )
Any difference b/w a Prophet and Messenger?
-
Peace,
I personally would appreciate very strong and clear verses (actually post them rather than refer and not come up with the numbers) justifying that this is final and no other scripture or prophet shall come. I am not asking for this to be annoying but only for good intention to learn and understand the reasoning.
As far as I am concerned the Muslims could have made similar mistake like Christians and Jews and created this 'false' ideas, these are traditional views and I don't get the idea of finality while reading the Quran. Or maybe it is not emphasised as the mullahs used to do so.
I am aware that there is the Seal of Prophets verse, but I read a thread that didn't clarify the meaning of finality, it was more on the authentication side of things. God's system is the same, why should it change? Have our communities grown to be different? How do we know other nations didn't grow strong like us or stronger and then destroyed themselves leaving little trace? This seal of prophets verse could have also easily been manipulated by people with different intentions.
KGB; I already took your advice before you gave it and have searched and continue to seek in Quran. God Willing you can share the meaing of your idea and justification of it if possible.
Peace, I just want to learn! I aren't looking for conflict or trouble just knowledge and understanding behind this unclear (to me) concept.
Nural
-
Peace.
I'm not sure myself to what extent the Quran emphasises its finality, but I assume this because unlike the previous scriptures, this reading is preserved unlike any other. Thatswhatsettles it for me. Bu then again, if someone does come along claiming to havebrought anew scripture its our job to seek the truth and find out what its all about, to strengthen our own belief and to help those who are misled.
Peace.
Natu on the line. -
Salaamun alaikun Natu, KGB, Nural Amin, all,
I think what Natu says above is pretty sound. What's the point in theoretical speculation? Isn't Al-Qur'aan safely with us? I'd like to see anyone bring any other text to compare with it. Perhaps Guru Nanak and Baha'ullah are 2 ppl to have tried this. If so, we need to see if thier 'sura' measures up to Quranic suras. That's all it is.
btw, there are no verses in the Quran saying its the final scripture.
thanks and peace.
-
Peace.
I understand there there are no direct verses saying that this is the final revelation, but neither is there any verses that say that it isn't. Future prophecies were made, such as the coming of the messenger of the covenant, which shows that if another scripture were to come, then it would be prohesised. The second reason which makes me believe that this is the fional scripture is that all other previous scriptures were corrupted over time but in this case God has kept a promise that he will protect it. If another scripture were to come, then this one would not have been protected to this level, like the previous scriptures weren't. I understand that there is a bit of controversy over the issue of the seal of the prophets, but even without looking into that I think it is clear that this is the final scripture. Any criticisms are wecome people, I search for the truth.
Peace.
Natu on the line. -
Salaam Alaikum M Quran,
I take interpretation of the following verse as the finality of the message to mankind from our Creator Lord Allah (SWT).
5101 O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, God will forgive those for God is Oft- forgiving, Most Forbearing.
You might have different understanding than mine.
-
Salaamun alaikum Natu, KGB,
Natu, to me 'previous scriptures' do not exist. I only know of al-qur'aan because its the only one mentioned by itself as 'al-kitaab' (the book, in singular). As long as I have al-qur'aan, I will never look at any other book as a divine source.
KGB, good point with 5/101. I guess as long as al-qur'aan is in existence, there's no way another book could supercede it.
thanks for stimulating thoughts, you guys.
salaam.
-
Salaam Nural Amin
I have posted the response beause of M Quran participated in the discussion. Now that I am on this discussion. Do you still want me to prove from Qur'an the second line of my signature ie Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is the Last Prophet and Last Messenger?
-
Salaam everyone,
I'm brand new, but I thought I would through my two cents in. The only verse that I can think of that explicitly says something about Muhammad being the last prophet is 3340. Some people, however, translate "last" prophet as "seal of" the prophets. Since I don't know Arabic, I can't critique either translation.
I have done some research on the word Messenger/message/prophet and their seems to be a difference...and some of that difference is lost in English translation.
And, in the end, why argue over stuff that we have no knowledge of or can't prove.
peace.
-
Peace KGB,
I do not see how you get the understanding of that verse to mean finality, I'm sure others would agree with you but many would also disagree. Don't get me wrong, it may very well be the last Scripture but I have no evidence saying it is and have not seen any. The only arguement that comes close is the seal of prophets arguement but I have also read debate on the meaning of 'seal' in this forum.
As I am not arabic-speaking I am unsure and cannot really discuss the meaning. Personally I believe messengers will always come til the day of judgement, but as for prophets thats another question. You hold many beliefs, I respect that but don't expect me to believe them if there is not solid backing or foundation and especially if another person cannot get the same understanding as you from that verse.
The only arguement that I personally have for the finality of Quran being the source of guidance til the day of Judgement is because it has been preserved and cannot be tampered with, this means there won't be need for another text.
And yes KGB I would like to see you try and prove that Muhammed is the last of MESSENGERS. Messengership does not have to be inherited, or where is the evidence that it stays within the family? So if your gonna use the verse saying Mohammed has no sons or he is not anyones father, it isn't enough for me.
KGB I sense that your attitude doesn't exactly go with the spirit of the forum's, free minds is the idea! Emancipate yourself from mental slavery! It seems that you have one idea and your right and all else is wrong, you should consider ideas before rejecting them and also if you want to uphold concepts have a strong backing in these types of forums or you may get thrashed with arguements.
What you seem to do is drop a line and quickly cop out! But I'm glad to see your back.
Especially the last messenger one that was settled long ago! God sends messengers to EVERY nation and does not give the retribution without sending a messenger.
Nural
-
Peace Nural Ameen,
Are you cult 19 followers? If you are than it will be useless to discuss the finality of prophethood and messengership.
I never go with the spirit of the forum or people. I only go according to the message. I never claimed that my point of view is the only one should be accepted, whenever I present my point of view you Free Minded people have accused me of something.
-
Salaamun alaikum Salikah,
I'm brand new, but I thought I would through my two cents in. The only verse that I can think of that explicitly says something about Muhammad being the last prophet is 3340. Some people, however, translate "last" prophet as "seal of" the prophets. Since I don't know Arabic, I can't critique either translation.
A very healthy attitude. Please keep it up )
-
Peace every one my thinking around the topic is that i belive that Mahommed is the seal of Prophet n Quran as the final scripture the reason for that is God himself has taken the reponsibilty to protect it if there was an other scripture to supercede it than i don,t think so God may have protect it n if there is no chance that there will be another scripture or Message from God then there is no chance of another Messanger because Messanger can not come without a Message so for me Prophet Mohammed is the last Prophet n Messanger ,n Quran is the final Scripture u,r views will be wellcomed may God increase our knowledge Peace