Dear KGB, your signiture....
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Peace Natu,
KGB, maybe this isn't the appropriate thread to discuss this but, Messengers/Prophets are not the same thing. (Open an appropriate thread and we shall discuss, God willing)
There are a couple of threads dealing with this subject, but here's a recent one. )
Any difference b/w a Prophet and Messenger?
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Peace,
I personally would appreciate very strong and clear verses (actually post them rather than refer and not come up with the numbers) justifying that this is final and no other scripture or prophet shall come. I am not asking for this to be annoying but only for good intention to learn and understand the reasoning.
As far as I am concerned the Muslims could have made similar mistake like Christians and Jews and created this 'false' ideas, these are traditional views and I don't get the idea of finality while reading the Quran. Or maybe it is not emphasised as the mullahs used to do so.
I am aware that there is the Seal of Prophets verse, but I read a thread that didn't clarify the meaning of finality, it was more on the authentication side of things. God's system is the same, why should it change? Have our communities grown to be different? How do we know other nations didn't grow strong like us or stronger and then destroyed themselves leaving little trace? This seal of prophets verse could have also easily been manipulated by people with different intentions.
KGB; I already took your advice before you gave it and have searched and continue to seek in Quran. God Willing you can share the meaing of your idea and justification of it if possible.
Peace, I just want to learn! I aren't looking for conflict or trouble just knowledge and understanding behind this unclear (to me) concept.
Nural
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Peace.
I'm not sure myself to what extent the Quran emphasises its finality, but I assume this because unlike the previous scriptures, this reading is preserved unlike any other. Thatswhatsettles it for me. Bu then again, if someone does come along claiming to havebrought anew scripture its our job to seek the truth and find out what its all about, to strengthen our own belief and to help those who are misled.
Peace.
Natu on the line. -
Salaamun alaikun Natu, KGB, Nural Amin, all,
I think what Natu says above is pretty sound. What's the point in theoretical speculation? Isn't Al-Qur'aan safely with us? I'd like to see anyone bring any other text to compare with it. Perhaps Guru Nanak and Baha'ullah are 2 ppl to have tried this. If so, we need to see if thier 'sura' measures up to Quranic suras. That's all it is.
btw, there are no verses in the Quran saying its the final scripture.
thanks and peace.
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Peace.
I understand there there are no direct verses saying that this is the final revelation, but neither is there any verses that say that it isn't. Future prophecies were made, such as the coming of the messenger of the covenant, which shows that if another scripture were to come, then it would be prohesised. The second reason which makes me believe that this is the fional scripture is that all other previous scriptures were corrupted over time but in this case God has kept a promise that he will protect it. If another scripture were to come, then this one would not have been protected to this level, like the previous scriptures weren't. I understand that there is a bit of controversy over the issue of the seal of the prophets, but even without looking into that I think it is clear that this is the final scripture. Any criticisms are wecome people, I search for the truth.
Peace.
Natu on the line. -
Salaam Alaikum M Quran,
I take interpretation of the following verse as the finality of the message to mankind from our Creator Lord Allah (SWT).
5101 O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, God will forgive those for God is Oft- forgiving, Most Forbearing.
You might have different understanding than mine.
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Salaamun alaikum Natu, KGB,
Natu, to me 'previous scriptures' do not exist. I only know of al-qur'aan because its the only one mentioned by itself as 'al-kitaab' (the book, in singular). As long as I have al-qur'aan, I will never look at any other book as a divine source.
KGB, good point with 5/101. I guess as long as al-qur'aan is in existence, there's no way another book could supercede it.
thanks for stimulating thoughts, you guys.
salaam.
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Salaam Nural Amin
I have posted the response beause of M Quran participated in the discussion. Now that I am on this discussion. Do you still want me to prove from Qur'an the second line of my signature ie Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is the Last Prophet and Last Messenger?
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Salaam everyone,
I'm brand new, but I thought I would through my two cents in. The only verse that I can think of that explicitly says something about Muhammad being the last prophet is 3340. Some people, however, translate "last" prophet as "seal of" the prophets. Since I don't know Arabic, I can't critique either translation.
I have done some research on the word Messenger/message/prophet and their seems to be a difference...and some of that difference is lost in English translation.
And, in the end, why argue over stuff that we have no knowledge of or can't prove.
peace.
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Peace KGB,
I do not see how you get the understanding of that verse to mean finality, I'm sure others would agree with you but many would also disagree. Don't get me wrong, it may very well be the last Scripture but I have no evidence saying it is and have not seen any. The only arguement that comes close is the seal of prophets arguement but I have also read debate on the meaning of 'seal' in this forum.
As I am not arabic-speaking I am unsure and cannot really discuss the meaning. Personally I believe messengers will always come til the day of judgement, but as for prophets thats another question. You hold many beliefs, I respect that but don't expect me to believe them if there is not solid backing or foundation and especially if another person cannot get the same understanding as you from that verse.
The only arguement that I personally have for the finality of Quran being the source of guidance til the day of Judgement is because it has been preserved and cannot be tampered with, this means there won't be need for another text.
And yes KGB I would like to see you try and prove that Muhammed is the last of MESSENGERS. Messengership does not have to be inherited, or where is the evidence that it stays within the family? So if your gonna use the verse saying Mohammed has no sons or he is not anyones father, it isn't enough for me.
KGB I sense that your attitude doesn't exactly go with the spirit of the forum's, free minds is the idea! Emancipate yourself from mental slavery! It seems that you have one idea and your right and all else is wrong, you should consider ideas before rejecting them and also if you want to uphold concepts have a strong backing in these types of forums or you may get thrashed with arguements.
What you seem to do is drop a line and quickly cop out! But I'm glad to see your back.
Especially the last messenger one that was settled long ago! God sends messengers to EVERY nation and does not give the retribution without sending a messenger.
Nural
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Peace Nural Ameen,
Are you cult 19 followers? If you are than it will be useless to discuss the finality of prophethood and messengership.
I never go with the spirit of the forum or people. I only go according to the message. I never claimed that my point of view is the only one should be accepted, whenever I present my point of view you Free Minded people have accused me of something.
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Salaamun alaikum Salikah,
I'm brand new, but I thought I would through my two cents in. The only verse that I can think of that explicitly says something about Muhammad being the last prophet is 3340. Some people, however, translate "last" prophet as "seal of" the prophets. Since I don't know Arabic, I can't critique either translation.
A very healthy attitude. Please keep it up )
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Peace every one my thinking around the topic is that i belive that Mahommed is the seal of Prophet n Quran as the final scripture the reason for that is God himself has taken the reponsibilty to protect it if there was an other scripture to supercede it than i don,t think so God may have protect it n if there is no chance that there will be another scripture or Message from God then there is no chance of another Messanger because Messanger can not come without a Message so for me Prophet Mohammed is the last Prophet n Messanger ,n Quran is the final Scripture u,r views will be wellcomed may God increase our knowledge Peace
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Peace,
I am not a member of no cult and follower of any religion, I do not follow any man (especially any dead man), I only follow the reason and logic and wisdom that GOD has blessed me with. I continue to seek, my trust is in GOD and GW HE will watch over me. But my faith is similar to Abraham and other Prophets that are mentioned in Quran, similar to the early Guru's in Sikism, and other men who had strong belief in the oness of GOD and believed in and tried their best to be righteous. My mind contains things that might shatter your brain because if you can't handle a simple question regarding the claimed finality of Scripture then other questions might make you POP!
KGB, you can't even have a reasonable discussion! I am open to accepting finality if you can justify it! You just accept it because you feel like it! Produce evidence from Scripture then I will be convinced, I'm still waiting. Just because one person says your right although they have seen no evidence from you on this thread doesn't mean you are right! Maybe you both are from some cult that cannot have open discussions with people who differ in views and they get unsettled very easily! Must be the time of the month all month for your cult!
My views are not identical to most people but atleast I can respect them and listen and discuss but there are a few people who seem incapable of that, it is a skill, develop and use it! An incredible GIFT from the ALMIGHTY to whoever has it.
If you can't produce a half-decent arguement and present it then I am not gonna waste my time with you, keep hating '19ers', all you do is hate. Your obsessed with 19 yourself, you mention the number in most your posts! you got serious issues, you need to check yourself before judging what you call '19ers'.
Anyway Peace,
Nural
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Peace KGB, Nural.
Chill guys, me and mquran don't see why your arguing about this, if it is the last scripture, or even if it isn't, the point is that we've got what we need right now. End of story. If a new scripture comes tomorrow, we'll check it out P . I won't take any side but I think you guys ought to spend more of your energy on more relevant topics. No offence.
KGB Please don't take Nural as a challenge, he is seeking the truth, perhaps you may not be finding his approach as appropriate.
Nural I get your frustration but its best if you two leave it here, till somebody pulls numbers out of the bag.
Peace.
Natu on the line. -
Salaamun alaikum Natu,
Chill guys, me and mquran don't see why your arguing about this, if it is the last scripture, or even if it isn't, the point is that we've got what we need right now. End of story. If a new scripture comes tomorrow, we'll check it out . I won't take any side but I think you guys ought to spend more of your energy on more relevant topics. No offence.
Wish I had your wisdom and patience when I was your age, seriously )
That's exactly my point. Why worry about it. If the Quran's hooked you, so be it. If another book comes, check it out. I personally havent seen anything which comes close.thanks and peace.