CAN ALLAH BE EVERYWHERE
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Well Man of Faith
You asked me if I see you to be deviated by "Devil"... so I clarified how I see you.
Of course you do not see yourself to be dogmatic or egotistical - if you saw it that way you would not have said the things you keep saying. You believe you are simply being knowledgeable and confident. But then again it is all a matter of degree. If our "confidence of knowledge" becomes so extreme that we turn a deaf ear to contrary views - that is the point it becomes counter productive.
But at least we seem to have agreed that being dogmatic and egotistical would be a deviation by devil. Let's take that understanding and all of us try to avoid such folly.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
@ Arman
I think MoF has put himself in unsafe condition and his numerous preachings might result victims,
so I guess any good attempt to "awaken" him is something right.
He is one of the most prolific posters on this website who has accumulated a great deal of posts so far.
I first encountered him when I was talking about some particular things and he brought up some linguistic stuff and I was giving the mainstream stuff, but then Samira let me know that he has his own method which I found out more about.
The user "reel" has recently had a dream or something which convinced her more of what Man of Faith has been saying all along. In my case, he has no need to convince me or not, since the way my mind works is a little different overall, I already believe in what he is saying and that he is going through what he is saying and all that.
Now what I'd really like is Man of Faith maybe to really analyze his whole life story and figure out what his motivations might be which make his views appealing to himself.
Like all things being said and done, what might be the drive for even wanting it that way.
In my case, what I consider the "highest truth" is never what I wanted. That is why I consider it a sophisticated meditation that I try to encourage people to ponder on mentally difficult things, but they don't know what I'm doing or trying to do it seems for the most part.
The idea that "what happens if the truth isn't what you would have ever wanted". That is why I am often seen speaking in negative terms to try to instigate that special tricky meditation. It is a difficult one for a mind to tolerate, one of the greater barriers in a person's experience of the world that many don't even dare play with, and instead keep it all locked away to fantasize about their round or flat Earths (whatever they prefer), and varieties of preferences.
I can generally read the people on this website almost like a book (somewhat anyway, it seems to me at least), the motivations seem kind of clear to me of what drives them, though they might not know it.
Like for the "flat Earth" people, I think it is an expression of being displeased with the "status quo", so its almost like a kind of shout at the world system of today. So then we hear themes of "this and this and this are Satanic, so is this" as a call out to the "powers that be".
The worst thing, in my opinion, that a person can do, the thing that might take them away from enlightenment the most, is justifying things to themselves regarding suffering. All the religious people and non-religious too have fallen for that trap, and according to Buddhism, acknowledgment of suffering is their first step towards "enlightenment" but even they later or possibly early on even started going into various justifications or imaginings.
I always try at least to stay alert to the tendency to do that in human beings, to comfort themselves one way or another. Its a human coping mechanism and its prevalent and has led to so many things, and led to much of what people hold dearest about their beliefs.
People generally believe in things that make them feel good one way or the other, even if its a rather convoluted path of how it is that end result makes them feel good, so thus it might even remain obscured why they have the convictions or desires they do.
For me, examining my motivations and desires and keep track of all those things is an extremely important practice.
The truth isn't as important to me as "why I am interested in it" for example.
I admire somewhat human beings for their convictions, like the "flat earth" for example, and anyone who believes anything, true or not true, just how strongly they stick to their guns is interesting to me. The "believers".
"Free-Minds" has an ironic name in several ways, one of which might be the interesting way that people find to pretty freely justify anything they want, which is a widespread human phenomenon and one could call it a reflection of God as well, and a powerful lesson for those who pay attention.
It is also, somewhat dreadful for me to think of myself becoming like some of the people on this website, so I watch to make sure I don't "actually" become a certain way.
The "humanity" of people interests me, that is why people like "hicham" are very curious, and "Man of Faith" can also be considered interesting in many ways, and everyone else too.
Arman is probably closer on the path to becoming something frightening like me, but maybe not. One can see by his writing that he has strong faculties for reasoning, and I love and approve of strong reasoning in writing whenever I see it, what it is actually about never concerns me as much as the use of careful and precise thinking, and also taking thinking to its end levels whatever it may be about.
Beyond the use of thinking in certain ways, there is the use of examining oneself very carefully, which is the purpose also for some of my absurd seeming statements at times, or "racism" or anything else, which is to instigate the freedom and release of one's real and suppressed reactions to things, the examination of their thoughts and their prejudices and reactions (and then acknowledging or following them back to what might have influenced them or how they might have taken their particular shapes).
So one way one could approach my material on this website, is to examine what is the "way" or what is it behind what I'm doing or saying that I'm trying to encourage people to do, because it, to me, is all about "movement" or "how we move" as compared to "static facts". When you learn to move a certain way (like in the way you think), the "static facts" start to matter less, and the movement seems to be where it is at. Even the Qur'an seems to use lots of language of "movement", when it seems to refer to things which generally might not be imagined as "movement". When life or understanding becomes focused on how you navigate, sailing becomes more fun, navigating becomes the destination.
I don't think all life is a waste, but that it only makes sense the way it is if its about learning how to dance, and especially in certain ways. There would be nothing about it that has any purpose or value if it were not about practicing and honing our movement. I mean this metaphorically of course!
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Hi Arman,
Of course you do not see yourself to be dogmatic or egotistical - if you saw it that way you would not have said the things you keep saying. You believe you are simply being knowledgeable and confident. But then again it is all a matter of degree. If our "confidence of knowledge" becomes so extreme that we turn a deaf ear to contrary views - that is the point it becomes counter productive.
Obviously I do not have a deaf ear to what people say, but if I consider what people say are erroneous, am I not allowed to correct them?
I have agreed to certain arguments you put forth and I just spell out what I consider about "materialization" of the god phenomenon. Are you going to call me egotistical or dogmatic over this?
Unless one is blind then one can sense themselves if they are turning egotistical and I am not that. I am not at all egotistical but I share what I know and would I be egotistical I would just shut the lid of my laptop, unplug internet and just stick to what I know rather than going through the hurdle of helping other humans. I have no personal gain of sitting here trying to help people because it is exactly why I am here. Not would I go through the unfriendly and rude responses here if it was not to aid people.
If I know something for a fact I am not egotistical for having confidence and I am intending to be as humble as I can, but I am frank against things that are factually wrong even though I am often trying to think over how I can convey the criticism in the least unfriendly way. Unfortunately it can appear blunt and opposite of what you may perceive it as, I am actually trying to help people. I do not wish to see people wandering around in a (god) delusion created of old.
In fact I am one of those people who rethink something a multitude of times and am always open to reconsidering if I was absolutely right about something. One of my phobia in life is being wrong about something. I detest being wrong, but that means I also accept I am wrong because I do not want to be wrong, even if it is biting in a sour apple. The positive aspect is that I work extremely hard at making sure I am not wrong by looking into things to the extent of obsession that I could sit working day and night after someone challenged what I know. However, it has happened that I admit I cannot verify something and I do not claim to know at that point but only follow indications.
I know many people have problems with perfectionists, but I am not an inflexible perfectionist because I am like the perfect perfectionist and if I am not flexible I am also not perfect.
It could perhaps be perceived as a lack of meekness, but I can actually let someone "win" even if I know I am right by just letting them have it their way.
But you need to get away from the illusion that I am egotistical or dogmatic. Egotistical I am not, but dogmatic depends on the perspective. Let us check the definition from Longman Advanced American Dictionary
dogmatic / dgm?1k / adjective
having ideas or beliefs that you will not change and that you expect other people to acceptBased on this your argument is false because I can change my ideas if you can prove me otherwise on something, but then you need to research harder and come up with more solid evidence with the interpretation of Quran at the level where I am. And that was not a display of arrogance, but you could if you just discarded the cap you have over your head.
"Expect others to accept" - Depends on what one defines as expect, but obviously it is like expecting people to accept what is true. To me this topic about Quran and my perception of what I teach here on the forum is like asking "Is the sky red or blue?" while beholding a blue sky and then say "yes obviously the sky is blue". Is that to be dogmatic? The word dogma has a negative connotation and I think you should consider dogmatic in conjunction with zealous which implies that you may become aggressive and almost or even persecute a person over the in your opinion deviating views. Do you ascribe me as such? I hope you do not because this is wrong.
I am blunt and frank oftentimes, but that is to speak like one with authority. I am yet clear that you can believe whatever you like, even if I say this is delusion. Perhaps you dislike my usage of "deluded"? Quran uses the word "kafar" to refer to people who have a cover over themselves who cannot see straight and I use "deluded" in this regard. Since I know the fact what is true and not true I simply use the word to refer to those who do not accept the arguments. You say "suppress the god gifted senses" which is similarly offensive in that case. I use fewer words and simply say "deluded". See a definition about delude
delude / dlud / verb
1 delude yourself to choose to believe something that is not true
delude yourself into doing something
We deluded ourselves into thinking we could win.
2 literary to make someone believe something that is not true SYN deceive
You attempted to delude me!The tone is very blunt with "deluded", but it is dishonest to say something else. The majority of people are deluded by ancient clerics who invented religious faiths which have no real bases with the Sustainer. But I pity people and use the arguments in heavy efforts at aiding them away from this delusion.
Be well
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@ Arman
I think MoF has put himself in unsafe condition and his numerous preachings might result victims,
so I guess any good attempt to "awaken" him is something right.
That is very ironical because I am working on awakening you.
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He is one of the most prolific posters on this website who has accumulated a great deal of posts so far.
That is however not so much of a merit. Anyone can put forth a lot of posts rambling on about nothing important. I am not intending to break any post record.
"Free-Minds" has an ironic name in several ways, one of which might be the interesting way that people find to pretty freely justify anything they want, which is a widespread human phenomenon and one could call it a reflection of God as well, and a powerful lesson for those who pay attention.
That depends on the perspective. From a sectarian Islamic perspective this is a very free-minded forum, but from a perspective of the true interpretation of Quran this forum is still horse-lengths behind. The forum is very tolerant to opposing or controversial views however, or at least has been so far. On a conventional sectarian forum I would have been permanently banned the first hour.
My faith is beginning to be a mix of the sects of Abrahamic religions, Gnosticism, Hinduism and Buddhism, but I reject them all. The truth behind the Kingdom of the Sustainer can be found in fragments from all world religions and yet none of them are absolutely right on every parameter, and the materialization/idolization seems to be prominent in all of them. What one should teach/preach is not a religion but a way of living, although it has to be the right perception.
There are no real religious rules, rites and rituals. The old 'Ten Commandments' are to prevent one from evil. Apart from that list everything else is fabricated. And that was several thousand years ago. In that time it was already then established that the Sustainer should not be worshiped separately as an image and that one should belong with it symbiotically in the Abrahamic faiths. It is much like honoring your father, not would you go around with silly utterances all the time and strange practices.
Somehow during the millennia clerics with much influence have kept the pagan spirit alive and that delusion has been there all the time. There was a retribution of the clerics in the 7th-8th century with the fabricated religion Islam to the extent of bringing the true perceptions into extinction. Gnosticism was nearly extinct at that time, not surprisingly. The rest of the Messiah's words had been corrupted by Christian clerics into worshiping the Messiah instead of what they should do.
I do consider the Sustainer way above myself and anyone considering anything else is having false beliefs about me. The difference is that I see no reason to fear the Sustainer as long as I can imitate it in Oneness. I would not want to fear my own father and I do not fear the Sustainer either who is better than any father. I do not consider the Sustainer separate from myself because I affirm that there is only one thing in existence and that is the Sustainer and the only way to continue to live is to affirm and join this in Oneness. Everything else I call tantamount to idolatry ironically what people may call my symbiotic perception of the Sustainer, but I affirm that I exist in the Sustainer and the Sustainer in me and that we are not separate. On that level I do not really exist as my own ego but rather absorbed in that consciousness.
Be well
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THE SUNNAH OF THE PROPHET PROHIBIT THE MENTIONING OF ALLAH NAME IN THE TOILET
THERERFORE MY QUESTION IS IS ALLAH EVERYWHEREThe reason people say that you shouldn't mention the name of Allah (swt) in the toilet is because it is a dirty place. The Quran does talk about cleanliness
Quran 5677-80
"That this is indeed a qur'an Most Honourable, In Book well-guarded, Which none shall touch but those who are clean, A Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds."Quran 56
"O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful."It has more to do with respect of the mentioning of Allah than anything else. Is Allah (swt) present there as well? of course !! Cleanliness has its place in Islam, but that should not mean that Allah (swt) is not present in places that we deam unclean. He is beyond such petty things.
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I do consider the Sustainer way above myself and anyone considering anything else is having false beliefs about me. The difference is that I see no reason to fear the Sustainer as long as I can imitate it in Oneness. I would not want to fear my own father and I do not fear the Sustainer either who is better than any father. I do not consider the Sustainer separate from myself because I affirm that there is only one thing in existence and that is the Sustainer and the only way to continue to live is to affirm and join this in Oneness. Everything else I call tantamount to idolatry ironically what people may call my symbiotic perception of the Sustainer, but I affirm that I exist in the Sustainer and the Sustainer in me and that we are not separate. On that level I do not really exist as my own ego but rather absorbed in that consciousness.
Be well
"The difference is that I see no reason to fear the Sustainer as long as I can imitate it in Oneness."
Could you please explain this further to help me understand your philosophy? Especially about the part regarding imitating the sustainer in oneness.
"I do not consider the Sustainer separate from myself because I affirm that there is only one thing in existence and that is the Sustainer and the only way to continue to live is to affirm and join this in Oneness."
So do you consider the human nafs/ruh to be a 'part' of the sustainer?
"but I affirm that I exist in the Sustainer and the Sustainer in me and that we are not separate."
Do you think that comparing your own self with the supreme creator takes you towards a form of shirk? Although I do understand what you are trying to get at, but your words seem like you think a human being may in essence be a part of the sustainer, in a very direct way.
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Arman,
I am fascinated that you still hold this point considered the improvement of your understanding. All timed rituals and stuff has no place in the scripture called Quran and there are no religions except what man has invented for himself.
They cannot be helpful because there is nothing useless that needs to be "dedicated solely to allah". Allah has no use for such and thus they must be useless. If you dedicate something to the Sustainer then you dedicate them to yourself as well, there is no separation and your "dedication solely to allah" is against just what I wrote against about the previous quotation. It is meaningless.
If you intend to be "dedicated solely to allah" then go out help an old woman across the street, give alms, teach spirituality, behave well, reflect, abstain from the world, and grow into the Being of allah that you were supposed to be.
Main thing I would want to mention here MoF, please reply if you have the time. You say
"Allah has no use for such and thus they must be useless."
On what authority is your opinion being based? How do you know what he wants and what he "needs". You say that Allah does not require such things. But how do you know that he has not COMMANDED these things for something that is beyond our understaning?
Allah has no human requirements and we all know that. But Allah may command whatever he likes (he is the creator after all). Does he even need our acceptance for such commandments? could he not just say 'be, and it is'. Then why would Allah even want us to believe in one God (or any god for that matter). Does he need our acceptance of his oneness? Does he even have any need for creating Mankind on this earth? What is the purpose of your existence if not to follow your creators commandments?
Does he need you or me to even exist? Why would he even create you then if he did not have certain criteria set out for you to fulfill. In the end it comes down to the meaning of life ... why are we here?
Why did God even create us? Like you said ... he has no need to do so.
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The reason people say that you shouldn't mention the name of Allah (swt) in the toilet is because it is a dirty place.
Peace OnlyOneGod , just wondering, if you were dying in the toilet
would call out to Allah?Peace to ask the question, "CAN ALLAH BE EVERYWHERE" is to suggest
there are things Allah is not aware of while he is Al Alim, Al wasi', Al Khabir.
Al Basir, and of course, Al Khaliq.3/5 Allah-- surely nothing is hidden from Him in the earth or in the heaven.
God Bless you
peace
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Peace OnlyOneGod , just wondering, if you were dying in the toilet
would call out to Allah?I only mentioned the reasons that most people mention. If you read my reply further I say that I do not believe that God could ever be restricted from such places.
I think you failed to read the following words I also penned down in that reply
"It has more to do with respect of the mentioning of Allah than anything else. Is Allah (swt) present there as well? of course !! Cleanliness has its place in Islam, but that should not mean that Allah (swt) is not present in places that we deam unclean. He is beyond such petty things. "
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I only mentioned the reasons that most people mention. If you read my reply further I say that I do not believe that God could ever be restricted from such places.
I think you failed to read the following words I also penned down in that reply
"It has more to do with respect of the mentioning of Allah than anything else. Is Allah (swt) present there as well? of course !! Cleanliness has its place in Islam, but that should not mean that Allah (swt) is not present in places that we deam unclean. He is beyond such petty things. "
Peace OnlyOneGod, I agree.
God bless you
peace
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Peace OnlyOneGod, I agree.
God bless you
peace
Peace my Brother
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@M0F!
I've told you this before (in pm), and I'll repeat it again, here
G-D alone guides !
You simply can't.That is very ironical because I am working on awakening you.
What makes you think you're "awake" in the first place!?
Did it ever occur to you that, to G-D Java might, perchance, be more guided than you?
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I do consider the Sustainer way above myself and anyone considering anything else is having false beliefs about me. The difference is that I see no reason to fear the Sustainer as long as I can imitate it in Oneness. I would not want to fear my own father and I do not fear the Sustainer either who is better than any father. I do not consider the Sustainer separate from myself because I affirm that there is only one thing in existence and that is the Sustainer and the only way to continue to live is to affirm and join this in Oneness. Everything else I call tantamount to idolatry ironically what people may call my symbiotic perception of the Sustainer, but I affirm that I exist in the Sustainer and the Sustainer in me and that we are not separate. On that level I do not really exist as my own ego but rather absorbed in that consciousness.
Peace,
& & &
5156
You cannot be the one, He is the Creator and you are a creation.
5332
& & &
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Thanks @ hicham and mmKhan for the contributions.
MoF might be still insist to hold his current belief, but at least we already tried.
Peace,
& & &
5156
You cannot be the one, He is the Creator and you are a creation.
I think that* is terrible (*MoF's statement which you highlighted in red at Reply #110).
As I told before
I think he already gone too far.
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@ MoF
In my opinion,
even though Allah is with us, it does not mean that we are parts of Allah,
and it does not mean that you exist in the Sustainer.
For me, as if you proclaimed that the Creator is composed from substances.
How do you know about that?
I don't believe that you really know about Allah.
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@M0F!
I've told you this before (in pm), and I'll repeat it again, here
G-D alone guides !
You simply can't.Then why did the Sustainer use people with insight to convey the message, people like Jesus?
The argument falls on itself.
What makes you think you're "awake" in the first place!?
Did it ever occur to you that, to G-D Java might, perchance, be more guided than you?
Then in that case at least she has to interpret Quran properly as intended by the Author.
Awake I am because I interpret Quran as intended.
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Hi JavaLatte,
@ MoF
In my opinion,
even though Allah is with us, it does not mean that we are parts of Allah,
and it does not mean that you exist in the Sustainer.
If the Sustainer is the existence then you surely exist in the Sustainer whether you like it or not. It is like a sort of singularity. No space yet immense mass.
For me, as if you proclaimed that the Creator is composed from substances.
How do you know about that?
The Sustainer is existent in everything. And "substances" are mere illusions and there is a raw force that forms apparently physical matter. Refer to Quantum Physics for details, but of course you eschew science so there is the next obstacle.
I don't believe that you really know about Allah.
No, because others have made you believe otherwise about the allah word in the first place.
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Hi mmkhan,
Peace,
& & &
5156
You cannot be the one, He is the Creator and you are a creation.
5332
& & &
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanThe people who oppose this view misinterpret the phrase "be in the Sustainer and the Sustainer in you". But there is just one Oneness and you have to stand under that umbrella. This is the meaning in the phrase. No matter what you do the Sustainer is the Initiator and prerequisite.
Besides the passage you referred to is about the word Alef-Lam-Lam which does not refer to the Sustainer per se. When it says Allahu ahad it means unity in allah (Being) which means that everyone must be under that umbrella I mentioned in the previous paragraph.
But no one can obviously become the Sustainer, but they can be assimilated in the "Kingdom".
Be well
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Hi mmkhan,
The people who oppose this view misinterpret the phrase "be in the Sustainer and the Sustainer in you". But there is just one Oneness and you have to stand under that umbrella. This is the meaning in the phrase. No matter what you do the Sustainer is the Initiator and prerequisite.
Besides the passage you referred to is about the word Alef-Lam-Lam which does not refer to the Sustainer per se. When it says Allahu ahad it means unity in allah (Being) which means that everyone must be under that umbrella I mentioned in the previous paragraph.
But no one can obviously become the Sustainer, but they can be assimilated in the "Kingdom".
Be well
Peace brother,
First of all which Arabic word you are referring to when you say Sustainer?
Secondly you contradict in your statement above in red and blue. You and umbrella are two not one. And you can be under an umbrella but again umbrella cannot be under you. I did understand what you have in mind exactly. Would you mind clarifying it in a short passage! Thanks.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan