CAN ALLAH BE EVERYWHERE
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Hi JavaLatte,
@ MoF
In my opinion,
even though Allah is with us, it does not mean that we are parts of Allah,
and it does not mean that you exist in the Sustainer.
If the Sustainer is the existence then you surely exist in the Sustainer whether you like it or not. It is like a sort of singularity. No space yet immense mass.
For me, as if you proclaimed that the Creator is composed from substances.
How do you know about that?
The Sustainer is existent in everything. And "substances" are mere illusions and there is a raw force that forms apparently physical matter. Refer to Quantum Physics for details, but of course you eschew science so there is the next obstacle.
I don't believe that you really know about Allah.
No, because others have made you believe otherwise about the allah word in the first place.
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Hi mmkhan,
Peace,
& & &
5156
You cannot be the one, He is the Creator and you are a creation.
5332
& & &
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanThe people who oppose this view misinterpret the phrase "be in the Sustainer and the Sustainer in you". But there is just one Oneness and you have to stand under that umbrella. This is the meaning in the phrase. No matter what you do the Sustainer is the Initiator and prerequisite.
Besides the passage you referred to is about the word Alef-Lam-Lam which does not refer to the Sustainer per se. When it says Allahu ahad it means unity in allah (Being) which means that everyone must be under that umbrella I mentioned in the previous paragraph.
But no one can obviously become the Sustainer, but they can be assimilated in the "Kingdom".
Be well
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Hi mmkhan,
The people who oppose this view misinterpret the phrase "be in the Sustainer and the Sustainer in you". But there is just one Oneness and you have to stand under that umbrella. This is the meaning in the phrase. No matter what you do the Sustainer is the Initiator and prerequisite.
Besides the passage you referred to is about the word Alef-Lam-Lam which does not refer to the Sustainer per se. When it says Allahu ahad it means unity in allah (Being) which means that everyone must be under that umbrella I mentioned in the previous paragraph.
But no one can obviously become the Sustainer, but they can be assimilated in the "Kingdom".
Be well
Peace brother,
First of all which Arabic word you are referring to when you say Sustainer?
Secondly you contradict in your statement above in red and blue. You and umbrella are two not one. And you can be under an umbrella but again umbrella cannot be under you. I did understand what you have in mind exactly. Would you mind clarifying it in a short passage! Thanks.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Hello mmkhan,
I interpret Rabb as Sustainer. There are a variety of definitions that could fit, but this is the best I know. It reflects that the Sustainer simply sustains (upholds) existence. It is based on sifting between these definitions from old lexicons
Ra-Ba-Ba = to be a lord and master, collect, possess/owner, rule, increase, complete, bring up, preserve, chief, guardian, regulator, determiner, caretaker, provider, sustainer, perfecter, rewarder, creator, maintainer, reposer of properties, developer, former of rules and laws of the growth, foster a thing in such a manner as to make it attain one condition after another until it reaches its goal of completion, the bringing a thing to a state of completion by degrees, whoever possesses a thing is it's rabb.
On overall comparing all definitions I get the word Sustainer. It is also mentioned from lexicons (I highlighted several above).
My morphological analyses rarely carry any weight with people here, but it yields "Foundation With" which one could say means that the subject provides a platform or sustenance or upholds something (from disintegration if neglected).
I do not find Lord or many other titles appropriate. Sustainer means what it says, i.e. that it sustains the world, both the visible and invisible part of it. Because it does that it can simply control anything as well very literally. Rabb is the only word I have encountered so far that exclusively refers to something called God or Allah in general.
Secondly you contradict in your statement above in red and blue. You and umbrella are two not one. And you can be under an umbrella but again umbrella cannot be under you. I did understand what you have in mind exactly. Would you mind clarifying it in a short passage! Thanks.
No. I do not contradict myself unless you misinterpret my words. The holder and possessor of the umbrella is the Sustainer. I am merely under it. It is fairly metaphorical, but the word "" could be regarded to be the collective word for the umbrella (with referring to their "umbrella". Note that this is writing in parables. That is has to do with only one umbrella is in the word .
And that it has to do with only one is in the logic itself. One can refer to when Abraham is speaking of Sustainers and reflect on that he does not like those who disappear on him (are not eternal or constant). You will not find a constant Sustainer looking in the "flesh" nor by painting a mental image, but if you look into existence itself you can find your Sustainer.
I did understand what you have in mind exactly. Would you mind clarifying it in a short passage! Thanks.
I will try to highlight interesting parts of what I wrote.
Be well
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@M0F!
I've told you this before (in pm), and I'll repeat it again, here
G-D alone guides !
You simply can't.What makes you think you're "awake" in the first place!?
Did it ever occur to you that, to G-D Java might, perchance, be more guided than you?
and me! More guided than you all! As I lay face down asleep in a bowl of cereal!
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G-D alone guides !
You simply can't.Then why did the Sustainer use people with insight to convey the message, people like Jesus?
The argument falls on itself.
Which part of 2856 you couldn't understand @M0F!?
You seriously think you can guide others, when Abrahem couldn't guide his own father!?Add. Again Qurnic RB (ب doesn't mean "sustainer"! But Master, Chief, or simply Superior .
E.g., in 125011, Ysef said to the messenger "Return to thy master" . Another example would be those who took on others (ex. clergy) as Arbb (ب instead of G-D , ... the list goes on!The Qurn edifies a 'Master/servants' kind of relationship between The G-D, and the mortals that we are.
Awake I am because I interpret Quran as intended.
As repulsive as ever!
your hybris ie.and me! More guided than you all! As I lay face down asleep in a bowl of cereal!
Good for you.
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Then why did the Sustainer use people with insight to convey the message, people like Jesus?
The argument falls on itself.
Which part of 2856 you couldn't understand @M0F!?
You seriously think you can guide others, when Abrahem couldn't guide his own father!?As repulsive as ever,
your hybris ie!Good for you.
Maybe you can make a thread which lists all your beliefs or lots of them.
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Just study the Qurn,
not me!Hmm, but lots of people who study the Qur'an seem to have come to different conclusions about things.
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Hicham,
Of course one can spread information. Or otherwise the concept of insightful messengers/instructors would be fairly contradictory. If one is guided that is up to their own openness of mind however.
I am aware that Joseph was told to go back to his Caretaker.
But even the word Master implies such a relationship that I suggested.
You are quite repulsive yourself actually. Very bad manners, sorry to say. And people blame me for dogma.
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Hicham,
Of course one can spread information. Or otherwise the concept of insightful messengers/instructors would be fairly contradictory. If one is guided that is up to their own openness of mind however.
I am aware that Joseph was told to go back to his Caretaker.
But even the word Master implies such a relationship that I suggested.
You are quite repulsive yourself actually. Very bad manners, sorry to say. And people blame me for dogma.
Yeah, he is one of the funniest members to me for how overtly rude he is lol It is quite hilarious. Maybe he reads the part about the kindly manners in the Qur'an differently though, maybe it actually reads something like "and when you discuss things with them, insult them so that they hate you and your religion more than ever before"
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Hicham, Of course one can spread information. Or otherwise the concept of insightful messengers/instructors would be fairly contradictory. If one is guided that is up to their own openness of mind however.
The messengers' duty is only to convey the message/s ,
they cannot guide/direct others, as evidenced by 2856 , &c.I am aware that Joseph was told to go back to his Caretaker.
Actually, it was Ysef who told the king's messenger to return to his master !
You are quite repulsive yourself actually. Very bad manners, sorry to say. And people blame me for dogma.
Yeah, he is one of the funniest members to me for how overtly rude he is lol It is quite hilarious. Maybe he reads the part about the kindly manners in the Qur'an differently though, maybe it actually reads something like "and when you discuss things with them, insult them so that they hate you and your religion more than ever before"
If ye think so!
SLM
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The messengers' duty is only to convey the message/s ,
they cannot guide, as evidenced by 2856 , &c.Actually, it was Ysef who told the king's messenger "Return to thy master ..." !
If you think so!
SLM
I'm curious to know what things make you happy.
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Hicham,
Spreading information is a way of instructing. Apart from that refer to what guidance means per word definition. I can point in a direction with the right information or do the right thing in demonstration, but each person must take action themselves.
Rabb means like I said, i.e. that a person is Caretaker, but it also means that person provides for their means. Master they are because the person depends on them and are sustained by them.
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Hello mmkhan,
I interpret Rabb as Sustainer. There are a variety of definitions that could fit, but this is the best I know. It reflects that the Sustainer simply sustains (upholds) existence. It is based on sifting between these definitions from old lexicons
Ra-Ba-Ba = to be a lord and master, collect, possess/owner, rule, increase, complete, bring up, preserve, chief, guardian, regulator, determiner, caretaker, provider, sustainer, perfecter, rewarder, creator, maintainer, reposer of properties, developer, former of rules and laws of the growth, foster a thing in such a manner as to make it attain one condition after another until it reaches its goal of completion, the bringing a thing to a state of completion by degrees, whoever possesses a thing is it's rabb.
On overall comparing all definitions I get the word Sustainer. It is also mentioned from lexicons (I highlighted several above).
My morphological analyses rarely carry any weight with people here, but it yields "Foundation With" which one could say means that the subject provides a platform or sustenance or upholds something (from disintegration if neglected).
I do not find Lord or many other titles appropriate. Sustainer means what it says, i.e. that it sustains the world, both the visible and invisible part of it. Because it does that it can simply control anything as well very literally. Rabb is the only word I have encountered so far that exclusively refers to something called God or Allah in general.
No. I do not contradict myself unless you misinterpret my words. The holder and possessor of the umbrella is the Sustainer. I am merely under it. It is fairly metaphorical, but the word "" could be regarded to be the collective word for the umbrella (with referring to their "umbrella". Note that this is writing in parables. That is has to do with only one umbrella is in the word .
And that it has to do with only one is in the logic itself. One can refer to when Abraham is speaking of Sustainers and reflect on that he does not like those who disappear on him (are not eternal or constant). You will not find a constant Sustainer looking in the "flesh" nor by painting a mental image, but if you look into existence itself you can find your Sustainer.
I will try to highlight interesting parts of what I wrote.
Be well
Salaam MoF,
Thank you for your explanation.
I tend to agree with the translation as Sustainer of the Arabic word Rabb but need some more study, inshaAllah.
While I was reading your post 1724 came into my mind for the meaning of Rabb, alhamduliAllah.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
G-D alone guides !
Salaam,
I agree with it completely that Allah alone guides.
But also He choose from among the people as Imam to guide others . There are only 4 Imams that alQuraan confirms as per the aayat quoted.
I think reaching this position of Imam is not easy at all . As you can see in the aayat quoted that Ibrahim was selected and his zurriyat was rejected being on this position.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Salaam,
I agree with it completely that Allah alone guides.
But also He choose from among the people as Imam to guide others . There are only 4 Imams that alQuraan confirms as per the aayat quoted.
I think reaching this position of Imam is not easy at all . As you can see in the aayat quoted that Ibrahim was selected and his zurriyat was rejected being on this position.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanBased on what? God choosing or chance (if you say it could have gone this way or that way, then Chance is the determiner, not whatever is being called "God" that doesn't do all the selection).
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Hi mmkhan,
Hicham contends the argument of Sustainer completely. But I find Rabb perfectly descriptive for what the Sustainer is, i.e. the One providing sustenance for everything. That is not inaccurate.
The root Ra-Ba-Ba is used for other settings as well, but it usually refers to one who is above you who determines your life and gives you your daily bread. Who does that better than the Sustainer? Hicham said boss or master, but both of those words imply that someone is your "determiner". I actually see a pattern in all those definitions. Therefore I also do not see Sustainer as wrong in any way.
If I provide for my family as a father I am also a sustainer, but that means I can also determine what we can buy and do with our daily life. And I can impose sanctions on my family if I like because I have financial upper hand. I am their master unless they have another means of sharing my role, no matter they like it or not.
This is what I consider Rabb to refer to in Arabic too. And who is a better sustainer than the Sustainer?
Apart from that I always respect your opinion. And also hicham's.
Be well
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Hi mmkhan,
Hicham contends the argument of Sustainer completely. But I find Rabb perfectly descriptive for what the Sustainer is, i.e. the One providing sustenance for everything. That is not inaccurate.
The root Ra-Ba-Ba is used for other settings as well, but it usually refers to one who is above you who determines your life and gives you your daily bread. Who does that better than the Sustainer? Hicham said boss or master, but both of those words imply that someone is your "determiner". I actually see a pattern in all those definitions. Therefore I also do not see Sustainer as wrong in any way.
If I provide for my family as a father I am also a sustainer, but that means I can also determine what we can buy and do with our daily life. And I can impose sanctions on my family if I like because I have financial upper hand. I am their master unless they have another means of sharing my role, no matter they like it or not.
This is what I consider Rabb to refer to in Arabic too. And who is a better sustainer than the Sustainer?
Apart from that I always respect your opinion. And also hicham's.
Be well
Peace brother,
I cannot say Hicham is wrong that is because I see him sincere and honest in his finding as you are. And he is trying to follow what Allah has guided him to. There might be many things that he agrees with your point of view. So there is nothing wrong, we all are on a same goal, inshaAllah.
Red Thank you very much handshake
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan