CAN ALLAH BE EVERYWHERE
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Just study the Qurn,
not me!Hmm, but lots of people who study the Qur'an seem to have come to different conclusions about things.
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Hicham,
Of course one can spread information. Or otherwise the concept of insightful messengers/instructors would be fairly contradictory. If one is guided that is up to their own openness of mind however.
I am aware that Joseph was told to go back to his Caretaker.
But even the word Master implies such a relationship that I suggested.
You are quite repulsive yourself actually. Very bad manners, sorry to say. And people blame me for dogma.
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Hicham,
Of course one can spread information. Or otherwise the concept of insightful messengers/instructors would be fairly contradictory. If one is guided that is up to their own openness of mind however.
I am aware that Joseph was told to go back to his Caretaker.
But even the word Master implies such a relationship that I suggested.
You are quite repulsive yourself actually. Very bad manners, sorry to say. And people blame me for dogma.
Yeah, he is one of the funniest members to me for how overtly rude he is lol It is quite hilarious. Maybe he reads the part about the kindly manners in the Qur'an differently though, maybe it actually reads something like "and when you discuss things with them, insult them so that they hate you and your religion more than ever before"
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Hicham, Of course one can spread information. Or otherwise the concept of insightful messengers/instructors would be fairly contradictory. If one is guided that is up to their own openness of mind however.
The messengers' duty is only to convey the message/s ,
they cannot guide/direct others, as evidenced by 2856 , &c.I am aware that Joseph was told to go back to his Caretaker.
Actually, it was Ysef who told the king's messenger to return to his master !
You are quite repulsive yourself actually. Very bad manners, sorry to say. And people blame me for dogma.
Yeah, he is one of the funniest members to me for how overtly rude he is lol It is quite hilarious. Maybe he reads the part about the kindly manners in the Qur'an differently though, maybe it actually reads something like "and when you discuss things with them, insult them so that they hate you and your religion more than ever before"
If ye think so!
SLM
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The messengers' duty is only to convey the message/s ,
they cannot guide, as evidenced by 2856 , &c.Actually, it was Ysef who told the king's messenger "Return to thy master ..." !
If you think so!
SLM
I'm curious to know what things make you happy.
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Hicham,
Spreading information is a way of instructing. Apart from that refer to what guidance means per word definition. I can point in a direction with the right information or do the right thing in demonstration, but each person must take action themselves.
Rabb means like I said, i.e. that a person is Caretaker, but it also means that person provides for their means. Master they are because the person depends on them and are sustained by them.
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Hello mmkhan,
I interpret Rabb as Sustainer. There are a variety of definitions that could fit, but this is the best I know. It reflects that the Sustainer simply sustains (upholds) existence. It is based on sifting between these definitions from old lexicons
Ra-Ba-Ba = to be a lord and master, collect, possess/owner, rule, increase, complete, bring up, preserve, chief, guardian, regulator, determiner, caretaker, provider, sustainer, perfecter, rewarder, creator, maintainer, reposer of properties, developer, former of rules and laws of the growth, foster a thing in such a manner as to make it attain one condition after another until it reaches its goal of completion, the bringing a thing to a state of completion by degrees, whoever possesses a thing is it's rabb.
On overall comparing all definitions I get the word Sustainer. It is also mentioned from lexicons (I highlighted several above).
My morphological analyses rarely carry any weight with people here, but it yields "Foundation With" which one could say means that the subject provides a platform or sustenance or upholds something (from disintegration if neglected).
I do not find Lord or many other titles appropriate. Sustainer means what it says, i.e. that it sustains the world, both the visible and invisible part of it. Because it does that it can simply control anything as well very literally. Rabb is the only word I have encountered so far that exclusively refers to something called God or Allah in general.
No. I do not contradict myself unless you misinterpret my words. The holder and possessor of the umbrella is the Sustainer. I am merely under it. It is fairly metaphorical, but the word "" could be regarded to be the collective word for the umbrella (with referring to their "umbrella". Note that this is writing in parables. That is has to do with only one umbrella is in the word .
And that it has to do with only one is in the logic itself. One can refer to when Abraham is speaking of Sustainers and reflect on that he does not like those who disappear on him (are not eternal or constant). You will not find a constant Sustainer looking in the "flesh" nor by painting a mental image, but if you look into existence itself you can find your Sustainer.
I will try to highlight interesting parts of what I wrote.
Be well
Salaam MoF,
Thank you for your explanation.
I tend to agree with the translation as Sustainer of the Arabic word Rabb but need some more study, inshaAllah.
While I was reading your post 1724 came into my mind for the meaning of Rabb, alhamduliAllah.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
G-D alone guides !
Salaam,
I agree with it completely that Allah alone guides.
But also He choose from among the people as Imam to guide others . There are only 4 Imams that alQuraan confirms as per the aayat quoted.
I think reaching this position of Imam is not easy at all . As you can see in the aayat quoted that Ibrahim was selected and his zurriyat was rejected being on this position.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Salaam,
I agree with it completely that Allah alone guides.
But also He choose from among the people as Imam to guide others . There are only 4 Imams that alQuraan confirms as per the aayat quoted.
I think reaching this position of Imam is not easy at all . As you can see in the aayat quoted that Ibrahim was selected and his zurriyat was rejected being on this position.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanBased on what? God choosing or chance (if you say it could have gone this way or that way, then Chance is the determiner, not whatever is being called "God" that doesn't do all the selection).
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Hi mmkhan,
Hicham contends the argument of Sustainer completely. But I find Rabb perfectly descriptive for what the Sustainer is, i.e. the One providing sustenance for everything. That is not inaccurate.
The root Ra-Ba-Ba is used for other settings as well, but it usually refers to one who is above you who determines your life and gives you your daily bread. Who does that better than the Sustainer? Hicham said boss or master, but both of those words imply that someone is your "determiner". I actually see a pattern in all those definitions. Therefore I also do not see Sustainer as wrong in any way.
If I provide for my family as a father I am also a sustainer, but that means I can also determine what we can buy and do with our daily life. And I can impose sanctions on my family if I like because I have financial upper hand. I am their master unless they have another means of sharing my role, no matter they like it or not.
This is what I consider Rabb to refer to in Arabic too. And who is a better sustainer than the Sustainer?
Apart from that I always respect your opinion. And also hicham's.
Be well
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Hi mmkhan,
Hicham contends the argument of Sustainer completely. But I find Rabb perfectly descriptive for what the Sustainer is, i.e. the One providing sustenance for everything. That is not inaccurate.
The root Ra-Ba-Ba is used for other settings as well, but it usually refers to one who is above you who determines your life and gives you your daily bread. Who does that better than the Sustainer? Hicham said boss or master, but both of those words imply that someone is your "determiner". I actually see a pattern in all those definitions. Therefore I also do not see Sustainer as wrong in any way.
If I provide for my family as a father I am also a sustainer, but that means I can also determine what we can buy and do with our daily life. And I can impose sanctions on my family if I like because I have financial upper hand. I am their master unless they have another means of sharing my role, no matter they like it or not.
This is what I consider Rabb to refer to in Arabic too. And who is a better sustainer than the Sustainer?
Apart from that I always respect your opinion. And also hicham's.
Be well
Peace brother,
I cannot say Hicham is wrong that is because I see him sincere and honest in his finding as you are. And he is trying to follow what Allah has guided him to. There might be many things that he agrees with your point of view. So there is nothing wrong, we all are on a same goal, inshaAllah.
Red Thank you very much handshake
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Hi mmkhan,
He is okay since he does not outright accept everything of Quran's traditional interpretation as true. There is some mindworks there.
By the way, I am beginning to see the same thing as you, i.e. that there may never have been a man named Muhammad. I do not feel I have strong enough evidence personally, but there are many indications that Muhammad was a sectarian fabrication of the 7th-9th centuries, just as the "war topic" of especially chapter 8-9 are a hoax and distortion of the context. As you may have read I argue that Qatal means defeat/subdue/master, and it does not have to involve violence but you can defeat someone verbally such as Moses' co-traveler lectures a young boy who was left dumbfounded. I highly doubt Moses would stick around with the man if he murdered someone.
Be well
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Here I am again giving you some verses to interpret?
527-32Do you think "Qatal" and all its derivatives here mean defeat?
I hope you won t get "defeated" here!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Hi mmkhan,
Hicham contends the argument of Sustainer completely. But I find Rabb perfectly descriptive for what the Sustainer is, i.e. the One providing sustenance for everything. That is not inaccurate.
The root Ra-Ba-Ba is used for other settings as well, but it usually refers to one who is above you who determines your life and gives you your daily bread. Who does that better than the Sustainer? Hicham said boss or master, but both of those words imply that someone is your "determiner". I actually see a pattern in all those definitions. Therefore I also do not see Sustainer as wrong in any way.
If I provide for my family as a father I am also a sustainer, but that means I can also determine what we can buy and do with our daily life. And I can impose sanctions on my family if I like because I have financial upper hand. I am their master unless they have another means of sharing my role, no matter they like it or not.
This is what I consider Rabb to refer to in Arabic too. And who is a better sustainer than the Sustainer?
Apart from that I always respect your opinion. And also hicham's.
Be well
By saying that he is the sustainer you are limiting his capability, are you not?
You give an example of your family, do you feel you are a rab to your family while not having the capacity or capability to create life and/or wealth at will? And I don't mean create life through procreation because we all know that you have no power over whether you can or cannot have children.
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Hi mmkhan,
He is okay since he does not outright accept everything of Quran's traditional interpretation as true. There is some mindworks there.
Peace brother,
I agree.
By the way, I am beginning to see the same thing as you, i.e. that there may never have been a man named Muhammad. I do not feel I have strong enough evidence personally, but there are many indications that Muhammad was a sectarian fabrication of the 7th-9th centuries, just as the "war topic" of especially chapter 8-9 are a hoax and distortion of the context. As you may have read I argue that Qatal means defeat/subdue/master, and it does not have to involve violence but you can defeat someone verbally such as Moses' co-traveler lectures a young boy who was left dumbfounded. I highly doubt Moses would stick around with the man if he murdered someone.
Be well
To me Islam means peace, hence there will not be wars.
I don't believe that means to kill/murder but couldn't find the correct description of this word yet. And waiting till Allah clarifies it for me, inshaAllah 10109].May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Hi good logic,
Peace Man Of Faith.
Here I am again giving you some verses to interpret?
527-32Do you think "Qatal" and all its derivatives here mean defeat?
I hope you won t get "defeated" here!
GOD bless you.
Peace.I get defeated everywhere. If not there is something wrong with the interpretation.
Looking at the text one can see that Quran is very incoherent in the traditional interpretation and suddenly jumps from a narrative of Moses onto another about Adam's sons that are not even mentioned by name. Have you even reflected upon the adhesion?
The truth is it does not even speak of the sons of Adam, but the text is perverted.
Due to your insistence I am going to sit down and decipher the unit specifically to reveal what it rather speaks of, even if I normally work systematically from A to B.
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Hi again brother mmkhan,
To me Islam means peace, hence there will not be wars.
I don't believe that means to kill/murder but couldn't find the correct description of this word yet. And waiting till Allah clarifies it for me, inshaAllah .Yes, peace can be an acceptable rendition of Eslam, although I prefer sound. When you say "salaam" to someone it is like saying "be healthy". However, you can say "have the mind at peace".
You may do like me and be ready that the word means defeat/subdue/master, which makes the word fairly versatile. These definitions are available in elder lexicons that exceed thousand years of age. One should never believe any source outright, but I find it plausible that it may mean defeat. The word is used when David/Dawood defeats Goliath and I think it really says defeat Goliath and not kill. It means that he both killed Goliath and defeated his men bearing his label.
Quran rarely uses words for kill/murder, and it is basically in negative contexts where it speaks of killing/murder.
Wherever qatal does not fit with defeat/master it is likely that the whole segment is poorly interpreted. Besides, you can qatal someone and it indirectly meant you kill them although literally the text says you defeat them. It does not come forth what happens unless specified. Murder is not a desirable outcome anyways.
Be well
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By saying that he is the sustainer you are limiting his capability, are you not?
You give an example of your family, do you feel you are a rab to your family while not having the capacity or capability to create life and/or wealth at will? And I don't mean create life through procreation because we all know that you have no power over whether you can or cannot have children.
How am I limiting the Sustainer's capability?
I gave an example over the usage of the word Ra-Ba-Ba, in case you missed that. If you depend on someone else you take them for a 'rabb'. That is what Joseph speaks about with his co-prisoners. It does not mean you cannot serve someone by working for them, but if you let them determine your thoughts and your actions. If you accept scholars or elder interpretations without reflection the interpreters, even if anonymous to you, become your arbab. The root refers to something more sophisticated while only rabb means simply 'sustain/supply/provide'. This is a controller of the situation who can determine your events and life.
Rabb does not imply creation or initiation by word definition. You must look for other words. Anyone can create something by just using their hands, but there is only one Initiator. Only the Rabb can initiate life. We can even use raw atoms to form artificial matter so this religious talk is not accurate. However, the Rabb gets the last say since it is sustaining the universe.
Sustainer (Rabb) is the most fundamental of words to use for the function of the Sustainer. It upholds existence itself and being the surge of power. Actually if one reflects it is a more powerful term than master/lord that do not say much.
Be well
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but the text is perverted.
I know! It touched me!