CAN ALLAH BE EVERYWHERE

mmkhan

Thanks @ hicham and mmKhan for the contributions.

Salaam,

You are welcome )

mmkhan

G-D alone guides !

Salaam,

I agree with it completely that Allah alone guides.

But also He choose from among the people as Imam to guide others . There are only 4 Imams that alQuraan confirms as per the aayat quoted.

I think reaching this position of Imam is not easy at all . As you can see in the aayat quoted that Ibrahim was selected and his zurriyat was rejected being on this position.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

FreedomStands

Salaam,

I agree with it completely that Allah alone guides.

But also He choose from among the people as Imam to guide others . There are only 4 Imams that alQuraan confirms as per the aayat quoted.

I think reaching this position of Imam is not easy at all . As you can see in the aayat quoted that Ibrahim was selected and his zurriyat was rejected being on this position.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Based on what? God choosing or chance (if you say it could have gone this way or that way, then Chance is the determiner, not whatever is being called "God" that doesn't do all the selection).

Man_of_Faith

Hi mmkhan,

Hicham contends the argument of Sustainer completely. But I find Rabb perfectly descriptive for what the Sustainer is, i.e. the One providing sustenance for everything. That is not inaccurate.

The root Ra-Ba-Ba is used for other settings as well, but it usually refers to one who is above you who determines your life and gives you your daily bread. Who does that better than the Sustainer? Hicham said boss or master, but both of those words imply that someone is your "determiner". I actually see a pattern in all those definitions. Therefore I also do not see Sustainer as wrong in any way.

If I provide for my family as a father I am also a sustainer, but that means I can also determine what we can buy and do with our daily life. And I can impose sanctions on my family if I like because I have financial upper hand. I am their master unless they have another means of sharing my role, no matter they like it or not.

This is what I consider Rabb to refer to in Arabic too. And who is a better sustainer than the Sustainer?

Apart from that I always respect your opinion. And also hicham's.

Be well

mmkhan

Hi mmkhan,

Hicham contends the argument of Sustainer completely. But I find Rabb perfectly descriptive for what the Sustainer is, i.e. the One providing sustenance for everything. That is not inaccurate.

The root Ra-Ba-Ba is used for other settings as well, but it usually refers to one who is above you who determines your life and gives you your daily bread. Who does that better than the Sustainer? Hicham said boss or master, but both of those words imply that someone is your "determiner". I actually see a pattern in all those definitions. Therefore I also do not see Sustainer as wrong in any way.

If I provide for my family as a father I am also a sustainer, but that means I can also determine what we can buy and do with our daily life. And I can impose sanctions on my family if I like because I have financial upper hand. I am their master unless they have another means of sharing my role, no matter they like it or not.

This is what I consider Rabb to refer to in Arabic too. And who is a better sustainer than the Sustainer?

Apart from that I always respect your opinion. And also hicham's.

Be well

Peace brother,

I cannot say Hicham is wrong that is because I see him sincere and honest in his finding as you are. And he is trying to follow what Allah has guided him to. There might be many things that he agrees with your point of view. So there is nothing wrong, we all are on a same goal, inshaAllah.

Red Thank you very much handshake

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Man_of_Faith

Hi mmkhan,

He is okay since he does not outright accept everything of Quran's traditional interpretation as true. There is some mindworks there.

By the way, I am beginning to see the same thing as you, i.e. that there may never have been a man named Muhammad. I do not feel I have strong enough evidence personally, but there are many indications that Muhammad was a sectarian fabrication of the 7th-9th centuries, just as the "war topic" of especially chapter 8-9 are a hoax and distortion of the context. As you may have read I argue that Qatal means defeat/subdue/master, and it does not have to involve violence but you can defeat someone verbally such as Moses' co-traveler lectures a young boy who was left dumbfounded. I highly doubt Moses would stick around with the man if he murdered someone.

Be well

good_logic

Peace Man Of Faith.

Here I am again giving you some verses to interpret?
527-32

Do you think "Qatal" and all its derivatives here mean defeat?

I hope you won t get "defeated" here!

GOD bless you.
Peace.

OnlyOneGod

Hi mmkhan,

Hicham contends the argument of Sustainer completely. But I find Rabb perfectly descriptive for what the Sustainer is, i.e. the One providing sustenance for everything. That is not inaccurate.

The root Ra-Ba-Ba is used for other settings as well, but it usually refers to one who is above you who determines your life and gives you your daily bread. Who does that better than the Sustainer? Hicham said boss or master, but both of those words imply that someone is your "determiner". I actually see a pattern in all those definitions. Therefore I also do not see Sustainer as wrong in any way.

If I provide for my family as a father I am also a sustainer, but that means I can also determine what we can buy and do with our daily life. And I can impose sanctions on my family if I like because I have financial upper hand. I am their master unless they have another means of sharing my role, no matter they like it or not.

This is what I consider Rabb to refer to in Arabic too. And who is a better sustainer than the Sustainer?

Apart from that I always respect your opinion. And also hicham's.

Be well

By saying that he is the sustainer you are limiting his capability, are you not?

You give an example of your family, do you feel you are a rab to your family while not having the capacity or capability to create life and/or wealth at will? And I don't mean create life through procreation because we all know that you have no power over whether you can or cannot have children.

mmkhan

Hi mmkhan,

He is okay since he does not outright accept everything of Quran's traditional interpretation as true. There is some mindworks there.

Peace brother,

I agree.

By the way, I am beginning to see the same thing as you, i.e. that there may never have been a man named Muhammad. I do not feel I have strong enough evidence personally, but there are many indications that Muhammad was a sectarian fabrication of the 7th-9th centuries, just as the "war topic" of especially chapter 8-9 are a hoax and distortion of the context. As you may have read I argue that Qatal means defeat/subdue/master, and it does not have to involve violence but you can defeat someone verbally such as Moses' co-traveler lectures a young boy who was left dumbfounded. I highly doubt Moses would stick around with the man if he murdered someone.

Be well

To me Islam means peace, hence there will not be wars.
I don't believe that means to kill/murder but couldn't find the correct description of this word yet. And waiting till Allah clarifies it for me, inshaAllah 10109].

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Man_of_Faith

Hi good logic,

Peace Man Of Faith.

Here I am again giving you some verses to interpret?
527-32

Do you think "Qatal" and all its derivatives here mean defeat?

I hope you won t get "defeated" here!

GOD bless you.
Peace.

I get defeated everywhere. If not there is something wrong with the interpretation.

Looking at the text one can see that Quran is very incoherent in the traditional interpretation and suddenly jumps from a narrative of Moses onto another about Adam's sons that are not even mentioned by name. Have you even reflected upon the adhesion?

The truth is it does not even speak of the sons of Adam, but the text is perverted.

Due to your insistence I am going to sit down and decipher the unit specifically to reveal what it rather speaks of, even if I normally work systematically from A to B.

Man_of_Faith

Hi again brother mmkhan,

To me Islam means peace, hence there will not be wars.
I don't believe that means to kill/murder but couldn't find the correct description of this word yet. And waiting till Allah clarifies it for me, inshaAllah .

Yes, peace can be an acceptable rendition of Eslam, although I prefer sound. When you say "salaam" to someone it is like saying "be healthy". However, you can say "have the mind at peace".

You may do like me and be ready that the word means defeat/subdue/master, which makes the word fairly versatile. These definitions are available in elder lexicons that exceed thousand years of age. One should never believe any source outright, but I find it plausible that it may mean defeat. The word is used when David/Dawood defeats Goliath and I think it really says defeat Goliath and not kill. It means that he both killed Goliath and defeated his men bearing his label.

Quran rarely uses words for kill/murder, and it is basically in negative contexts where it speaks of killing/murder.

Wherever qatal does not fit with defeat/master it is likely that the whole segment is poorly interpreted. Besides, you can qatal someone and it indirectly meant you kill them although literally the text says you defeat them. It does not come forth what happens unless specified. Murder is not a desirable outcome anyways.

Be well

Man_of_Faith

By saying that he is the sustainer you are limiting his capability, are you not?

You give an example of your family, do you feel you are a rab to your family while not having the capacity or capability to create life and/or wealth at will? And I don't mean create life through procreation because we all know that you have no power over whether you can or cannot have children.

How am I limiting the Sustainer's capability?

I gave an example over the usage of the word Ra-Ba-Ba, in case you missed that. If you depend on someone else you take them for a 'rabb'. That is what Joseph speaks about with his co-prisoners. It does not mean you cannot serve someone by working for them, but if you let them determine your thoughts and your actions. If you accept scholars or elder interpretations without reflection the interpreters, even if anonymous to you, become your arbab. The root refers to something more sophisticated while only rabb means simply 'sustain/supply/provide'. This is a controller of the situation who can determine your events and life.

Rabb does not imply creation or initiation by word definition. You must look for other words. Anyone can create something by just using their hands, but there is only one Initiator. Only the Rabb can initiate life. We can even use raw atoms to form artificial matter so this religious talk is not accurate. However, the Rabb gets the last say since it is sustaining the universe.

Sustainer (Rabb) is the most fundamental of words to use for the function of the Sustainer. It upholds existence itself and being the surge of power. Actually if one reflects it is a more powerful term than master/lord that do not say much.

Be well

FreedomStands

but the text is perverted.

I know! It touched me!

hicham9

Thank you, brother mmkhan
for being impartial.

... rabb means simply 'sustain/supply/provide'.

In my book, the equivalent of. Sustainer is QA l-Razq () = He* who supplies/provides sustenance ().

*no gender meant.

Be sound.

hawk99

In my book, the equivalent of. Sustainer is QA l-Razq () = He* who supplies/provides sustenance ().

I agree that Allah is the sustainer (Ar Razzaq)

To me Islam means peace, hence there will not be wars.

So if you are attacked you do what?

I don't believe that means to kill/murder but couldn't find the correct description of this word yet.

You may have great difficulty finding another meaning, but then again
others have succeeded )

God bless

Man_of_Faith

Aha hicham,

That is not what I consider to mean in my book. Someone's portion/share/part is . Example If I speak of knowing my part (of a job) I use .

Anyways, Being sound is much more important than these details.

Be healthy

Man_of_Faith

Hawk99,

The etymology of says otherwise. It is your clerical friends of the Islam you follow who fabricated the definition you use due to ignorance. As far as I am concerned, one is beaten/defeated with , but per word it does not come forth if the person dies or not unless specified in the context.

OnlyOneGod

Bad editing on my part ... see next msg.

OnlyOneGod

How am I limiting the Sustainer's capability?

Rabb does not imply creation or initiation by word definition. You must look for other words. Anyone can create something by just using their hands, but there is only one Initiator. Only the Rabb can initiate life. We can even use raw atoms to form artificial matter so this religious talk is not accurate. However, the Rabb gets the last say since it is sustaining the universe.

Sustainer (Rabb) is the most fundamental of words to use for the function of the Sustainer. It upholds existence itself and being the surge of power. Actually if one reflects it is a more powerful term than master/lord that do not say much.

Be well

Rabb as per normal usage does not simply encompass the acts of a sustainer and creator as defined by pantheism. It encompasses a much broader scope, which includes his attributes of the greatest judge and jury, the most beneficent, the most merciful, he has no partners, he begets none etc. While your word "sustainer" is limiting.

You ask
"Rabb does not imply creation or initiation by word definition. You must look for other words. "

Why are you so against the use of the word Allah, which in its scope talks of both the sustainer as you believe, and much more? Do you believe that the other attributes of God mentioned throughout the Quran are not accurate?

The word Rabb can have multiple interpretations in the same way Lord (in the bible) can have multiple interpretations. But Allah and his attributes are pretty clearly defined in the Quran. We know that when we speak of Rabb in the Quran, it means Allah. So better to just say Allah rather than sustainer as Allah is more accurate.

hicham9

I agree that Allah is the sustainer (Ar Razzaq)

handshake

Aha hicham,

That is not what I consider to mean in my book.

Someone's portion/share/part is .
Example If I speak of knowing my part (of a job) I use .

Contextual consistency aside,
I see no etymological basis for such an assertion!