Homosexuality: A Cost To Society or Harmless
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Salaam Kyle,
You can check the following webpage which briefly discusses bisexuality. The quran stresses heterosexuality it seems, but it seems apparent to me that sexual identification and preference can change as people are dynamic and it is very individualistic. Bisexuality is kind of hard to clasify since there are different levels of it.
http//www.biresource.org/pamphlets/bisexuality.pdf#search='are%20people%20born%20bisexual?'
It is difficult to actually identify all bisexuals since all people might not think that they are. J. R. Little gives at least 13 types of bisexuality that are defined by desires and/or experiences.
Alternating bisexuals
may have a relationship with a man, and then after that relationship ends, may choose a female partner for a subsequent relationship, and many go back to a male partner next.
Circumstantial bisexuals
primarily heterosexual, but will choose same sex partners only in situations where they have no access to other-sex partners, such as when in jail, in the military, or in a gender-segregated school.
Concurrent relationship bisexuals
have primary relationship with one gender only but have other casual or secondary relationships with people of another gender at the same time.
Conditional bisexuals
either straight or gay/lesbian, but will switch to a relationship with another gender for financial or career gain or for a specific purpose, such as young straight males who become gay prostitutes or lesbians who get married to men in order to gain acceptance from family members or to have children.
Emotional bisexuals
have intimate emotional relationships with both men and women, but only have sexual relationships with one gender.
Integrated bisexuals
have more than one primary relationship at the same time, one with a man and one with a woman.
Exploratory bisexuals
either straight or gay/lesbian, but have sex with another gender just to satisfy curiosity or "see what it's like."
Hedonistic bisexuals
primarily straight or gay/lesbian but will sometimes have sex with another gender primarily for fun or purely sexual satisfaction.
Recreational bisexuals
primarily heterosexual but engage in gay or lesbian sex only when under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol.
Isolated bisexuals
100% straight or gay/lesbian now but has had at one or more sexual experience with another gender in the past.
Latent bisexuals
completely straight or gay lesbian in behavior but have strong desire for sex with another gender, but have never acted on it.
Motivational bisexuals
straight women who have sex with other women only because a male partner insists on it to titillate him.
Transitional bisexuals
temporarily identify as bisexual while in the process of moving from being straight to being gay or lesbian, or going from being gay or lesbian to being heterosexual.You lost me here, what are the envoys condemning?
See Lut's response to the people in ayaat 781-82.
That is correct, there is NO COMPULSION, but that does not mean we don't invite to what is right and speak out about what is wrong.
What is wrong can be highly subjective. The god of the quran discriminates against same sex sexual practices.
Well, HomoSEXuality deals with SEX, so you cannot use that as an example.
Well sexuality is a broad term referring to all aspects of being sexual and does not refer exclusively to sex.
Doesn't the God say He places the force of attraction between man and woman in this reading(quran)?
Yes, this is the quran's teachings, but apparently alot of people have a force of attraction to whichever degree to the same and opposite sex. Again I cannot condone the god of the quran's stand on this issue because it seems pointlessly restrictive, especially regarding being open sexually.
In conclusion, Homosexuality did not create a single being on this forum, why is there so much respect for such a perverse action?
True, it did not. I would not call it perverse however.
Joe
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WARNING Mature Content
Peace,
Is there a chance that when God is talking about the men in the story of Lut that he was referring to men who had sex with men LIKE they did with women? Why I'm mentioning this is because homosexuality was known to be prevalent for a very long time, and normal. HOWEVER, anal sex WAS NOT seen as normal. If a man were to have anal sex with another man, then it was seen as preverse, wicked, sinful, gross, etc.. However, without getting into too much detail, I'm trying to say that anal sex is not the exclusive form of sex that homosexuals practice, and indeed MANY, if not most, homosexuals DO NOT have anal sex. And indeed many homosexuals believe it is wrong to have anal sex BECAUSE its not genital-to-genital, excuse my french!, sex. When a man and a woman have sex, it is genital-to-genital. When a man and another man have sex, they DO NOT have to have anal sex, rather they "bump and grind" against one another, which if you ask almost all homosexuals, they will tell you that even before they knew what sex was, that is what they wanted to do with other boys their age. They never grew up knowing what anal sex was until someone told them, but naturally as they were growing up, they had a desire to bump and grind with another male as opposed to having anal sex with them. I think anal sex is something that was basically thrust upon the gay community as their form of sex, so it was a self-fulfilling prophecy type of thing. But to my understanding, many gay men do not like/participate/believe in anal sex. So, if we were to use that premise in discussing homosexuality, would anything change? And regarding Lot's people, could it be perhaps that anal sex was their crime? Trying to insert your penis into something else IN PLACE OF something else but not procreating?
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Salaam,
Yes, not all, perhaps most, gay couples do not prefer anal sex or engage in it.
I think anal sex is something that was basically thrust upon the gay community as their form of sex, so it was a self-fulfilling prophecy type of thing.
I agree it may have been thrust on them. Albiet straight couples do engage in anal sex as well. I'm not sure it is inserting something in the place of the vagina. Anal sex can basically be its own fetish and also men and women do engage in oral sex. It can be sort of like taking the place of vaginal intercourse but it's different still. Oral sex can actually be more stimulating than vaginal sex.
Joe
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Peace,
That is part of the problem. The desire to 'bump and grind' is a fulfilling of a sexual urge though it may not be penetrative sexual activity.
My reading leads me to understand that those who wish to fulfill their sexual desires should be patient till they are married (and this is only ever to an opposite sex partner in the context of the reading)
2433 Those who cannot afford to get married shall maintain morality until GOD provides for them from His grace. Those among your servants who wish to be freed in order to marry, you shall grant them their wish, once you realize that they are honest. And give them from GOD's money that He has bestowed upon you. You shall not force your girls to commit prostitution, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste. If anyone forces them, then GOD, seeing that they are forced, is Forgiver, Merciful.
Now if one cannot marry a man and a man then the 'bumping and grinding' and 'toing and froing' and whatever else is all a breach in morality.
Regards.
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Peace,
Is the prohibition against the marriage between man and man in the Qur'an itself? Or is this just basically nothing to do with it? Another question In another, lets say, 500 years. If gay marriage is very prevalent and even mainstream Muslims and Christians engage/approve of it, don't you think that if someone were to say "This is prohibited by the Qur'an!", future free-minders will object and say "Nowhere is this prohibition found in the Qur'an!" Am i right, or am i really right
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Peace,
TheNabi, because there was no such thing as marriage between men and men in those days. Now, it is safe to say, there is. The point I was trying to make is, just because it didn't exist and God doesn't talk about it, is it prohibited? There is nothing that alludes to marriage being exclusively between men and women. Yes, every time marriage is mentioned, it is between a man and a woman, because thats what marriage meant. The meaning of marriage is changing now before our eyes. (Actually it has changed much since the Qur'an's time, even between men and women) Can we safely apply the changing meaning of marriage to the same concept of marriage found in the Qur'an? And who is to say that someone can or cannot apply the meaning of marriage in these days (or even in the future) to the concept found in the Qur'an?
Peace.
Zach -
Salaam Zach,
I'm not sure if there is room for a change in how the quran defines marriage since it is a contract between a male and female. It says what it means. It's like if your teacher says write one page about the short story and you stretch the meaning to be 'Okay, I've got more than a pages worht of material here so I'll hand in 2 pages.' It's simply what is meant and one cannot further define it beyond the original intent.
Joe
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Peace be upon you,
Why are we not dealing with PURPOSE? Why are DESIRES not being factored in? As was already stated, we are told to abstain until we are married. What is the purpose of marriage? To procreate and cultivate another human. Homosexuality fits no where in there and is a perversion which attacks at the family structure. We can see how this is in line with the degrading society by looking around us.
Yes, each human has the yin and yang faculties within them, testosterone and estrogen, but the outer shell (the body) gives us the COMMAND on how to proceed. Do you put food in your rear end? Do you drink through your ears? Well what are you doing with your sexual organs? Did the God make them for mere sport for pleasure gratification of for a purpose?
I'm not hearing the answer to these questions.
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Salaam Kyle,
I'm not sure what God made the sexual organs for but I'll give you my take on why we have them. We have them to release fluids from our bodies, both urine and sperm . They are also used to get pleasure from them. The only way these organs can pump the life germs forth is from stimulation from the pleasure we give to them. The sexual organs are very pleasurable to us, which is why we toy with them, masturbate them, manually stimulate them .
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Not everyone wants to procreate. Some would rather have a life partner.
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One may procreate without a legal binding.
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The family structure is a cultural more. Why can't a single parent, a gay couple, a straight couple be a good family structure? My single parent family works out fine and it's all good.
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God's way of how people should do things is not always right for all people since people obviously work out just fine doing things not ordained by God.
Joe
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Peace be upon you Joe,
I'm not sure what God made the sexual organs for but I'll give you my take on why we have them.
What do you mean your not sure? Do you know what the heart is for? The Lungs? The Liver? Why is there uncertainty when we look at the sexual organs? All we have to do is to observe them to see what they are for.
We have them to release fluids from our bodies, both urine and sperm .
Correct.
They are also used to get pleasure from them.
Yes, it makes sense that the method of CREATION is pleasurable. We do not get this pleasure when we use these organs to release waste.
The only way these organs can pump the life germs forth is from stimulation from the pleasure we give to them.
YES! the stimulation NATURALLY ends with a RESULT, what is the RESULT? Ejaculation of Sperm (dealing just with the male for right now). EVERYONE has sex to reach this ENDING(effect). What is the PURPOSE of this EFFECT? What is SPERM for? Is it a facial creme? Some kind of lotion? WHat is it for?
The sexual organs are very pleasurable to us, which is why we toy with them, masturbate them, manually stimulate them .
Yes, so that the EJACULATION will come and we can be at total REST/RELAXATION/PEACE. It is a calming effect, yet the SPERM has been ejaculated for a REASON.
- Not everyone wants to procreate. Some would rather have a life partner.
This deals with likes and dislikes, therefore emotions. We cannot live life by our DESIRES(likes and dislike) we must live according to the PLAN, we are to SERVE the God. This reading states that all the messenegrs had sposes and children, they are the examples. Using the above logic, not everyone wants to work hard for a living, some want to steal and opress, not everyone wants to eat healthy, some want to live off of hugs and potato chips, not everyone wants to be forgiving, some want to kil others. So we cant go by what a person might DESIRE(like or dislike).
- One may procreate without a legal binding.
Yes, I am not here to discuss legal bindings, only the perversity of homosexuality.
- The family structure is a cultural more. Why can't a single parent, a gay couple, a straight couple be a good family structure? My single parent family works out fine and it's all good.
My single parent situation worked out fine as well, but that is not always the case. A child needs male and female influences, life was harder for my mother being a single parent. I have a daghter who is with her mother and it does not allow me to have as much influence in her life as I would if we were together. I see women use children as TOOLS to get back at the man and vice versa. I don't have all of the research of such situations in frontg of me, but we can discuss the pros and cons of a family unit versus single parenting.
- God's way of how people should do things is not always right for all people since people obviously work out just fine doing things not ordained by God.
God's way is not right? I don't think you are looking at the big picture. This response is similar to the response of the rejectors who say "bring the punishment if what you say is true". In time you will see which way is right.
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I see this topic pop-up every now and then, and I'm disappointed by the homophobic, hislam responses every time.
Have you not seen God creates what he wills. Have you not seen hemphorodites. What will your law do to them.
All the "men" here think they chose to be hetrosexuals, but infact they didn't. The truth is God made them that way. So you haven't abstained from any sin. You are incapable of being homosexuals.
Peace.
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Peace be upon you,
I see this topic pop-up every now and then, and I'm disappointed by the homophobic, hislam responses every time.
NO, there is no FEAR (phobia) of homosexuals, please do not give that incorrect definition. I am only speaking out against a CLEAR wrong, just as I speak out against oppression, murder, lying, being led by emotions, etc.
Have you not seen God creates what he wills. Have you not seen hemphorodites. What will your law do to them.
I would say a LAW has already effected them from the culture they were born into, not really what a law will do. Just like joined twins and the like, you cant expect them to be able to follow the same physical disciplines as a healthy human. Likewise, hermaphrodites are SIGNS of incorrect behavior, as are all perversions, like blindness, and many others. Like the polar regions where the sun does not rise and set in a balanced nature.
But getting back to the correct nature of beings, man and women are made to work together.
All the "men" here think they chose to be hetrosexuals, but infact they didn't. The truth is God made them that way. So you haven't abstained from any sin. You are incapable of being homosexuals.
You are fooling yourself in regards to the whisperer whom we seek protection from, you wrongly THINK you cant be turned into a homosexual, but if the right conditions were placed around you for the right amount of time, you would change as all things change. That is why we must GUARD OUR SALAAT (process of learning). That is why we must be mindful of the wombs(that which creates you, your culture).
Homosexuality is terribly wrong, and it is a MENTAL perversity. Just as any other perversity like lying and oppresion.
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Peace be upon you Joe,
Yes, human are clay(water and earth) and can be shaped into ANY BEHAVIOR. Thats why we watch the news in amazement and say "Wow, how could someone do this and that?"
Yes, TRUST IN IT! The Human can be CHNAGED into ANY BEHAVIOR. So we need to get busy sculpting ourselves in our world.
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I guess paedophiles and even serial killers were "born that way" too?... ?
same old responses eh, lets lump homosexuals and paedophiles, there we go problem sorted.
paedophiles are predators, even if you cut off their balls they still hurt and abuse childern, can you say they same for homosexuals, do they hurt and prey upon unsuspecting victims.
your comments are unjust.
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Follow the same science logic you presented and thats where you'll end up. 'Bad genes', anyone? I just did the same thing you did. Instead of dismissing it, try tackling it from the base, then see if my comments are unjust, or "same old". roll
- And Lot, he said to his people ?Do you commit lewdness with what no people of the worlds before you had done??
- ?You come to men with desire instead of women; you are a transgressing people.?
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Follow the same science logic you presented and thats where you'll end up. 'Bad genes', anyone? I just did the same thing you did. Instead of dismissing it, try tackling it from the base, then see if my comments are unjust, or "same old". roll
no sure what you mean here bro.
- And Lot, he said to his people ?Do you commit lewdness with what no people of the worlds before you had done??
- ?You come to men with desire instead of women; you are a transgressing people.?
ah, I was wondering when you'd get to Lot. There are a couple of things you need think about here.
Why aren't women addressed here. Why is the Quran quiet on this issue of female sexuality.
Secondly it is clear from verses they that men had developed predatory desires. They hunted men fox sex, there was no question about consent or about being a homosexual couple. In the end they wanted to rape Lot and his guests. They weren't asking him out on a date!
This is not homosexual behaviour which is a feeling of love directed towards other consenting homosexuals but this an aggressive crime towards non-consenting hetrosexuals.
These guys had wives at home, they were hetrosexuals practicing forced sex on other hetrosexuals.
Peace.