Peace. Punishment for sex before marriage.

Farabi

If there is no punishment, there would be problems, and if there is punishment there would be problems too. You said it was on the west.

huruf

Hello and peace to all, i hope everyone is okay.

I know a guy that commited Zina and we told him That God is most merciful oft Forgiving.
And We found a surat in the Holy Quran from Chapter 24, verse 2 were God says

"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."

So can anyone help me? We want to do this action If god Wills, we have called some scholars here and they say that they cannot confirm this action in the west because we dont live under any Sharia law.

So how should one go forward with this if no one wants to help? thanks

The Qur'an does not force anybody to confess such a deed. Read very carefully the whole lot of ayas till 25 and you will see that the whole thing is not about punishing anybody for zina but to avoid people, particularly women to be slandered for such a thing. Nowhere it says that anybody SHOULD confess, nowhere it is said that any witnesses should come forward, but rather that the person who accuses procures him o herself his or her witnesses and ffailing that that person before God is a lier.

So no, no obligation to be punished nor flogged nor anything, but the VERY CERTAIN obligation of not doing it again and repenting. The Qur'an is not a punishing machine. Read carefully how God says that were it not for His mercy

Those who love (to see) scandal published broadcast among the Believers, will have a grievous Penalty in this life and in the Hereafter Allah knows, and ye know not. (19) Were it not for the grace and mercy of Allah on you, and that Allah is full of kindness and mercy, (ye would be ruined indeed). (20)

O ye who believe! follow not Satan's footsteps if any will follow the footsteps of Satan, he will (but) command what is shameful and wrong and were it not for the grace and mercy of Allah on you, not one of you would ever have been pure but Allah doth purify whom He pleases and Allah is One Who hears and knows (all things). (21) Let not those among you who are endued with grace and amplitude of means resolve by oath against helping their kinsmen, those in want, and those who have left their homes in Allah's cause let them forgive and overlook, do you not wish that Allah should forgive you? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (22

Read carefully ayas 1 to 25. You will verify that the question is nto about punishing zina, but about purifying people, very, very secifically fron carrying tales and slandering.

Salaam

FreedomStands

Hello and peace to all, i hope everyone is okay.

I know a guy that commited Zina and we told him That God is most merciful oft Forgiving.
And We found a surat in the Holy Quran from Chapter 24, verse 2 were God says

"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."

So can anyone help me? We want to do this action If god Wills, we have called some scholars here and they say that they cannot confirm this action in the west because we dont live under any Sharia law.

So how should one go forward with this if no one wants to help? thanks

What are you talking about? Yourself right? Can you just be straight with the people on this forum? Just because this is the internet doesn't mean we aren't real people.

Look at your past posts and the way you ask questions. No one can tell if you're being real or just asking questions with fake scenarios.

You yourself would be the one to be lashed with the woman, right? If your stories are true, so why be shy? Just speak clearly, and if you have been making false statements, talk of hypothetical situations, don't make it as if it is reality, it isn't nice to do that.

What is your real religion?

Look at your posts

Marriage & Divorce / Marrying a person that was previously married but now divorced.

"So i was wondering how you could go forward marrying a person that has been maried but then divorced"

Then another

Marrying a person that was previously married but now divorced.

"i want to marry a women that was prev married but divorced inshAllah. how long must we wait, 3 months or 4?"

Then

"im very depressed read please"

"i had this mutah thing in my head, i told her to agrre to my wish to do mutah, and shes a christian..so basically we decided a period and a gift that i should give her..so aftet she accepted we kissed for a very long time..and tho i didnt feel bad right after (religiously) im now feeling a pain in my stomach and im very depressed and sad...i dont know what to do..please help me...btw i like this girl alot."

"Btw i know whats lawful and not according to the quran and i compared to those around me am very religious"

Then you said

"chapter 9/at taubah verse 29"

"can someone explain this to me?"

Then you went on to say

"problem with salah(contact prayer) please help me"

"This is unbelievable and im literally shaking as im writing this, but whats happening to me? Im currently fasting, and i dont pray my 5 salats, may God forgive me. The only prayer that i feel refreshed and healed by is the Jumuah salat, i will cut off one of my finger just to attend it."

Then

"I have sinned big time "

"But one night, something happened with this girl, it was 80% zina? we didnt do it so there would be a possibility to a baby you know, but other stuff happened, rubbing, and doing other things. i actually dont know whether we did it or not("person going into the cave&quot, but i dont think so and i asked her, she said no, anyways.."

"I cannot describe the feeling i feel now. This happened 1-2 months ago. And im very embarresed to pray and ask for forgviness..I know God is most merciful, but i did a big sin

Please, please what should i do? maybe kill myself? please help."

THEN YOU SAID THE FOLLOWING

"Peace. Punishment for sex before marriage."

"I know a guy that commited Zina and we told him That God is most merciful oft Forgiving."

"So can anyone help me? We want to do this action If god Wills"

Please, please, talk to us like real people, if this is just a joke or a game, it is not a good game.

Be real, the practices of people who pretend or make stories or do not speak straight or sensibly and are trying methods to make people say certain things by trickery, are not good ones. To pretend something to make the people who answer into fools or make Islam seem foolish or anything else.

Just be clear with your objectives finally.

There are many people who are supporters of the Hadith (just as there are those who are Jews and Christians) who come onto these sorts of websites to confound people and make their "Qur'an Only" stance seem foolish.

So if that is your objective, or if anyone has such objectives, simply be clear.

Atheists also come and pretend to be Muslims or other religions to shame people, but they themselves should be ashamed that they are coming in such a manner and thinking it a joke to deliberately try to mislead and disrupt the lives of people by creating false anxieties and concerns.

So please just be straight, for once, tell the real story or say that the stories were false and reveal your true nature and agenda.

I will tell you my true nature and agenda, so that you can understand how far it goes

I am a demonic entity (a human) here to attack the religions in people. When it is attacked, it is either strengthened or destroyed. I do so openly though, I don't say to people "Oh I did this, I did this, what should I do" to try to trick them, as some people might do. I am incredibly straight with people. I'd like you to try to be like me more and see if you can at least speak straight and tell the whole story properly and be clear with your agenda, you know it can be quite fun to say it right to people's faces what you are really here for.

Man_of_Faith

No need to punish. God punishes sufficiently as it is.

reel

The Qur'an does not force anybody to confess such a deed. Read very carefully the whole lot of ayas till 25 and you will see that the whole thing is not about punishing anybody for zina but to avoid people, particularly women to be slandered for such a thing. Nowhere it says that anybody SHOULD confess, nowhere it is said that any witnesses should come forward, but rather that the person who accuses procures him o herself his or her witnesses and ffailing that that person before God is a lier.

So no, no obligation to be punished nor flogged nor anything, but the VERY CERTAIN obligation of not doing it again and repenting. The Qur'an is not a punishing machine. Read carefully how God says that were it not for His mercy

Those who love (to see) scandal published broadcast among the Believers, will have a grievous Penalty in this life and in the Hereafter Allah knows, and ye know not. (19) Were it not for the grace and mercy of Allah on you, and that Allah is full of kindness and mercy, (ye would be ruined indeed). (20)

O ye who believe! follow not Satan's footsteps if any will follow the footsteps of Satan, he will (but) command what is shameful and wrong and were it not for the grace and mercy of Allah on you, not one of you would ever have been pure but Allah doth purify whom He pleases and Allah is One Who hears and knows (all things). (21) Let not those among you who are endued with grace and amplitude of means resolve by oath against helping their kinsmen, those in want, and those who have left their homes in Allah's cause let them forgive and overlook, do you not wish that Allah should forgive you? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (22

Read carefully ayas 1 to 25. You will verify that the question is nto about punishing zina, but about purifying people, very, very secifically fron carrying tales and slandering.

Salaam

No use telling him that. He posted similar question about himself here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607632.msg371222#msg371222

He is simply trolling I suppose. If he truly was interested in Quran he would have not repeated this same question again and again.

Tell him to produce four witnesses who saw the man doing it with the woman.

I bet in a few weeks or months thing he will say is that he has become atheist or that he thinks Jesus is literally the son of God like some of the people on this forum who stayed here only a month or two usually posting few times about what is haram and halal, failing to understand that they were not appearing different from sectarians and shills.

es

Hello and peace to all, i hope everyone is okay.

I know a guy that commited Zina and we told him That God is most merciful oft Forgiving.
And We found a surat in the Holy Quran from Chapter 24, verse 2 were God says

"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."

So can anyone help me? We want to do this action If god Wills, we have called some scholars here and they say that they cannot confirm this action in the west because we dont live under any Sharia law.

So how should one go forward with this if no one wants to help? thanks

If you live in The West as you stated then just search for a dominatrix in your locality and I'm sure s/he would be more than happy to oblige.

good_logic

Peace agphys.

First of all, am I writing to a real person? What is your friend s name?

What is it exactly you want us to do?

Perhaps Farabi, huruf ,FreedomStands, Man Of Faith,reel and es will form a "flogging committee", invite the mass by advert to a well known venue like "Hyde park" in London,to witness a public flogging?

In that case they will arrange a date for you to bring your friend to be flogged publicly!!!

Only be warned, you were asking to be flogged for an earlier "sin" you claimed in one of your other threads!!!They may flog you as well while they are at it.

One of them will be the "lead flogger". Or they take it in turn ...

How should one go forward with this?
Well you and your friend will not be able to go anywhere, forward or backward,once they finish with both of you.

The crowd may get excited and will keep asking them to do more flogging...

Me,I would advise you to stop asking for "flogging" ,either for you or anyone else. Just sincerely repent and mend your ways .

Stop "zina" and posting about "zina" altogether. If I were you, I will stop anything that leads you to ask to be "flogged".

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Farabi

I cant help but saying this to you, I will not hestitate to throw you with stone if that's the law, so shut your trap and avoid sin, unfortunately, in my real life, I was blind, and I was deaf. I cant do anything except give pitty to my self.

unknownuser

Chill he's just looking for some answers in case it happens to him, no need to get hostile all over him elektro

agphys

First of all id like to thank all of you even if you got mad somehow??

"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment." (242)

Do i need to give more proof?

truthseeker11

Peace agphys,

This punishment is only when the sexual act has been witnessed by 4 witnesses. Less than 4 witnesses and there will be no punishment. So if there are only 3 witnesses then one is not a zani or zania and no punishment.

This logically proves that zina is not just the sexual act but a PUBLIC sexual act witnessed by at least 4 witnesses. One becomes zani or zania only AFTER witnessed by 4 witnesses. Less than 4 witnesses and one is not zani or zania even when one engages in the sexual act.

Practically the government laws of the country where such an act has been committed will have to be followed. Vigilantism is not condoned by any spiritual teaching.

Peace

runninglikezebras

Peace agphys,

This punishment is only when the sexual act has been witnessed by 4 witnesses. Less than 4 witnesses and there will be no punishment. So if there are only 3 witnesses then one is not a zani or zania and no punishment.

This logically proves that zina is not just the sexual act but a PUBLIC sexual act witnessed by at least 4 witnesses. One becomes zani or zania only AFTER witnessed by 4 witnesses. Less than 4 witnesses and one is not zani or zania even when one engages in the sexual act.

Practically the government laws of the country where such an act has been committed will have to be followed. Vigilantism is not condoned by any spiritual teaching.

Peace

In the hebrew scriptures the hebrew cognate of zina is not a reference to adultery but to harlotry. This harlotry is more often spiritual (forging alliances with polytheists) than sexual.

Using this hebrew cognate is most useful to understanding zina. Instead of rendering the verse meaningless (sexual intercouse is 99% of the time a private event) - one should consider the historical meaning of this word to find out how zina CAN be witnessed by 4 people.

Breaking Gods command not to take polytheists as allies will most certainly be witnessed by 4 people.

Peace

huruf

Again you are missing what surat an-nur is saying. God has no interest whatsoever in punishing de zani or the zaniya no matter how much her husband may want to do something to her. God wants that people stop slandering other people particularly women. Read all the ayas up to the 24.26, you will understand, that is, if you want to understand.

God does not ask anybody to come forward and testify tho zina. Quite the opposite, he charges the accuser with the task and if he doe snot comply the accuser is punished.

Salaam

Farabi

Chill he's just looking for some answers in case it happens to him, no need to get hostile all over him elektro

No of course I wont. Im not saying it seriously. As a man, it kinda dilematic, we men are the one who is vulnerable to do adultery, not woman.

unknownuser

In the hebrew scriptures the hebrew cognate of zina is not a reference to adultery but to harlotry. This harlotry is more often spiritual (forging alliances with polytheists) than sexual.

Using this hebrew cognate is most useful to understanding zina. Instead of rendering the verse meaningless (sexual intercouse is 99% of the time a private event) - one should consider the historical meaning of this word to find out how zina CAN be witnessed by 4 people.

Breaking Gods command not to take polytheists as allies will most certainly be witnessed by 4 people.

Peace

zanah to commit fornication, be a harlot
Original Word
Part of Speech Verb
Transliteration zanah
Phonetic Spelling (zaw-naw&#039
Short Definition harlot

Word Origin
a prim. root

Definition
to commit fornication, be a harlot

NASB Translation
adulterous (1), become a harlot (1), commit adultery (1), commits flagrant harlotry (1), fall to harlotry (1), harlot (22), harlot continually (1), harlot's (2), harlot's* (2), harlot* (3), harlotry (3), harlots (5), making her a harlot (1), play the harlot (1, play the harlot continually (1), played the harlot (24), playing the harlot (3), plays the harlot (1), prostitute (1), unfaithful (1).

You really sure about that bud? i kinda agree that sex with a GF is not to be considered Zina or fornication but i'm not sure 0rgies and one night stands would get a free pass from God as long as it's not a ritual- just saying though

agphys

Peace agphys,

This punishment is only when the sexual act has been witnessed by 4 witnesses. Less than 4 witnesses and there will be no punishment. So if there are only 3 witnesses then one is not a zani or zania and no punishment.

This logically proves that zina is not just the sexual act but a PUBLIC sexual act witnessed by at least 4 witnesses. One becomes zani or zania only AFTER witnessed by 4 witnesses. Less than 4 witnesses and one is not zani or zania even when one engages in the sexual act.

Practically the government laws of the country where such an act has been committed will have to be followed. Vigilantism is not condoned by any spiritual teaching.

Peace

What do you classify as a witness? must a witness see the action with their own eyes or does it count if they hear it from my mouth?

huruf

If the witness has heard it from you but not witnessed the act itself, he or she cannot testify to the act itself. It is the witness of the act itself.

Salaam

huruf

If you live in The West as you stated then just search for a dominatrix in your locality and I'm sure s/he would be more than happy to oblige.

This is not a bad idea.

Ready for punishments you dogs. Why shouldn't you get what you want.

Salaam

Man_of_Faith

Sex is consummation of marriage. It means the finalizing bonding. Oaths can be taken at any time preferably prior to that.

Formal marriage ceremony and official papers can be good to keep the respect from people of this world.

Be well
Emanuel

runninglikezebras

zanah to commit fornication, be a harlot
Original Word
Part of Speech Verb
Transliteration zanah
Phonetic Spelling (zaw-naw&#039
Short Definition harlot

Word Origin
a prim. root

Definition
to commit fornication, be a harlot

NASB Translation
adulterous (1), become a harlot (1), commit adultery (1), commits flagrant harlotry (1), fall to harlotry (1), harlot (22), harlot continually (1), harlot's (2), harlot's* (2), harlot* (3), harlotry (3), harlots (5), making her a harlot (1), play the harlot (1, play the harlot continually (1), played the harlot (24), playing the harlot (3), plays the harlot (1), prostitute (1), unfaithful (1).

You really sure about that bud? i kinda agree that sex with a GF is not to be considered Zina or fornication but i'm not sure 0rgies and one night stands would get a free pass from God as long as it's not a ritual- just saying though

Yeah I'm sure about that "bud' (I absolutely hate that word). Zina is spiritual harlotry. I'm not saying a promiscuous lifestyle is a good thing. But it's never referred to with the term 'zina' in Quran.

The condition of 4 witnesses can't possibly apply to witnessing sexual promiscuity.

Flawed logic

zina = sexual promiscuity
punishment for zina = the whip
condition for punishment = 4 witnesses
4 witnesses never apply to such a thing, so HOORAY for not having to whip anyone!

Peace