Peace. Punishment for sex before marriage.
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The Qur'an does not force anybody to confess such a deed. Read very carefully the whole lot of ayas till 25 and you will see that the whole thing is not about punishing anybody for zina but to avoid people, particularly women to be slandered for such a thing. Nowhere it says that anybody SHOULD confess, nowhere it is said that any witnesses should come forward, but rather that the person who accuses procures him o herself his or her witnesses and ffailing that that person before God is a lier.
So no, no obligation to be punished nor flogged nor anything, but the VERY CERTAIN obligation of not doing it again and repenting. The Qur'an is not a punishing machine. Read carefully how God says that were it not for His mercy
Those who love (to see) scandal published broadcast among the Believers, will have a grievous Penalty in this life and in the Hereafter Allah knows, and ye know not. (19) Were it not for the grace and mercy of Allah on you, and that Allah is full of kindness and mercy, (ye would be ruined indeed). (20)
O ye who believe! follow not Satan's footsteps if any will follow the footsteps of Satan, he will (but) command what is shameful and wrong and were it not for the grace and mercy of Allah on you, not one of you would ever have been pure but Allah doth purify whom He pleases and Allah is One Who hears and knows (all things). (21) Let not those among you who are endued with grace and amplitude of means resolve by oath against helping their kinsmen, those in want, and those who have left their homes in Allah's cause let them forgive and overlook, do you not wish that Allah should forgive you? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (22
Read carefully ayas 1 to 25. You will verify that the question is nto about punishing zina, but about purifying people, very, very secifically fron carrying tales and slandering.
Salaam
No use telling him that. He posted similar question about himself here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607632.msg371222#msg371222
He is simply trolling I suppose. If he truly was interested in Quran he would have not repeated this same question again and again.
Tell him to produce four witnesses who saw the man doing it with the woman.
I bet in a few weeks or months thing he will say is that he has become atheist or that he thinks Jesus is literally the son of God like some of the people on this forum who stayed here only a month or two usually posting few times about what is haram and halal, failing to understand that they were not appearing different from sectarians and shills.
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Hello and peace to all, i hope everyone is okay.
I know a guy that commited Zina and we told him That God is most merciful oft Forgiving.
And We found a surat in the Holy Quran from Chapter 24, verse 2 were God says"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."
So can anyone help me? We want to do this action If god Wills, we have called some scholars here and they say that they cannot confirm this action in the west because we dont live under any Sharia law.
So how should one go forward with this if no one wants to help? thanks
If you live in The West as you stated then just search for a dominatrix in your locality and I'm sure s/he would be more than happy to oblige.
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Peace agphys.
First of all, am I writing to a real person? What is your friend s name?
What is it exactly you want us to do?
Perhaps Farabi, huruf ,FreedomStands, Man Of Faith,reel and es will form a "flogging committee", invite the mass by advert to a well known venue like "Hyde park" in London,to witness a public flogging?
In that case they will arrange a date for you to bring your friend to be flogged publicly!!!
Only be warned, you were asking to be flogged for an earlier "sin" you claimed in one of your other threads!!!They may flog you as well while they are at it.
One of them will be the "lead flogger". Or they take it in turn ...
How should one go forward with this?
Well you and your friend will not be able to go anywhere, forward or backward,once they finish with both of you.The crowd may get excited and will keep asking them to do more flogging...
Me,I would advise you to stop asking for "flogging" ,either for you or anyone else. Just sincerely repent and mend your ways .
Stop "zina" and posting about "zina" altogether. If I were you, I will stop anything that leads you to ask to be "flogged".
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Chill he's just looking for some answers in case it happens to him, no need to get hostile all over him elektro
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First of all id like to thank all of you even if you got mad somehow??
"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment." (242)
Do i need to give more proof?
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Peace agphys,
This punishment is only when the sexual act has been witnessed by 4 witnesses. Less than 4 witnesses and there will be no punishment. So if there are only 3 witnesses then one is not a zani or zania and no punishment.
This logically proves that zina is not just the sexual act but a PUBLIC sexual act witnessed by at least 4 witnesses. One becomes zani or zania only AFTER witnessed by 4 witnesses. Less than 4 witnesses and one is not zani or zania even when one engages in the sexual act.
Practically the government laws of the country where such an act has been committed will have to be followed. Vigilantism is not condoned by any spiritual teaching.
Peace
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Peace agphys,
This punishment is only when the sexual act has been witnessed by 4 witnesses. Less than 4 witnesses and there will be no punishment. So if there are only 3 witnesses then one is not a zani or zania and no punishment.
This logically proves that zina is not just the sexual act but a PUBLIC sexual act witnessed by at least 4 witnesses. One becomes zani or zania only AFTER witnessed by 4 witnesses. Less than 4 witnesses and one is not zani or zania even when one engages in the sexual act.
Practically the government laws of the country where such an act has been committed will have to be followed. Vigilantism is not condoned by any spiritual teaching.
Peace
In the hebrew scriptures the hebrew cognate of zina is not a reference to adultery but to harlotry. This harlotry is more often spiritual (forging alliances with polytheists) than sexual.
Using this hebrew cognate is most useful to understanding zina. Instead of rendering the verse meaningless (sexual intercouse is 99% of the time a private event) - one should consider the historical meaning of this word to find out how zina CAN be witnessed by 4 people.
Breaking Gods command not to take polytheists as allies will most certainly be witnessed by 4 people.
Peace
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Again you are missing what surat an-nur is saying. God has no interest whatsoever in punishing de zani or the zaniya no matter how much her husband may want to do something to her. God wants that people stop slandering other people particularly women. Read all the ayas up to the 24.26, you will understand, that is, if you want to understand.
God does not ask anybody to come forward and testify tho zina. Quite the opposite, he charges the accuser with the task and if he doe snot comply the accuser is punished.
Salaam
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In the hebrew scriptures the hebrew cognate of zina is not a reference to adultery but to harlotry. This harlotry is more often spiritual (forging alliances with polytheists) than sexual.
Using this hebrew cognate is most useful to understanding zina. Instead of rendering the verse meaningless (sexual intercouse is 99% of the time a private event) - one should consider the historical meaning of this word to find out how zina CAN be witnessed by 4 people.
Breaking Gods command not to take polytheists as allies will most certainly be witnessed by 4 people.
Peace
zanah to commit fornication, be a harlot
Original Word
Part of Speech Verb
Transliteration zanah
Phonetic Spelling (zaw-naw'
Short Definition harlotWord Origin
a prim. rootDefinition
to commit fornication, be a harlotNASB Translation
adulterous (1), become a harlot (1), commit adultery (1), commits flagrant harlotry (1), fall to harlotry (1), harlot (22), harlot continually (1), harlot's (2), harlot's* (2), harlot* (3), harlotry (3), harlots (5), making her a harlot (1), play the harlot (1, play the harlot continually (1), played the harlot (24), playing the harlot (3), plays the harlot (1), prostitute (1), unfaithful (1).You really sure about that bud? i kinda agree that sex with a GF is not to be considered Zina or fornication but i'm not sure 0rgies and one night stands would get a free pass from God as long as it's not a ritual- just saying though
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Peace agphys,
This punishment is only when the sexual act has been witnessed by 4 witnesses. Less than 4 witnesses and there will be no punishment. So if there are only 3 witnesses then one is not a zani or zania and no punishment.
This logically proves that zina is not just the sexual act but a PUBLIC sexual act witnessed by at least 4 witnesses. One becomes zani or zania only AFTER witnessed by 4 witnesses. Less than 4 witnesses and one is not zani or zania even when one engages in the sexual act.
Practically the government laws of the country where such an act has been committed will have to be followed. Vigilantism is not condoned by any spiritual teaching.
Peace
What do you classify as a witness? must a witness see the action with their own eyes or does it count if they hear it from my mouth?
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Sex is consummation of marriage. It means the finalizing bonding. Oaths can be taken at any time preferably prior to that.
Formal marriage ceremony and official papers can be good to keep the respect from people of this world.
Be well
Emanuel -
zanah to commit fornication, be a harlot
Original Word
Part of Speech Verb
Transliteration zanah
Phonetic Spelling (zaw-naw'
Short Definition harlotWord Origin
a prim. rootDefinition
to commit fornication, be a harlotNASB Translation
adulterous (1), become a harlot (1), commit adultery (1), commits flagrant harlotry (1), fall to harlotry (1), harlot (22), harlot continually (1), harlot's (2), harlot's* (2), harlot* (3), harlotry (3), harlots (5), making her a harlot (1), play the harlot (1, play the harlot continually (1), played the harlot (24), playing the harlot (3), plays the harlot (1), prostitute (1), unfaithful (1).You really sure about that bud? i kinda agree that sex with a GF is not to be considered Zina or fornication but i'm not sure 0rgies and one night stands would get a free pass from God as long as it's not a ritual- just saying though
Yeah I'm sure about that "bud' (I absolutely hate that word). Zina is spiritual harlotry. I'm not saying a promiscuous lifestyle is a good thing. But it's never referred to with the term 'zina' in Quran.
The condition of 4 witnesses can't possibly apply to witnessing sexual promiscuity.
Flawed logic
- zina = sexual promiscuity
- punishment for zina = the whip
- condition for punishment = 4 witnesses
- 4 witnesses never apply to such a thing, so HOORAY for not having to whip anyone!
Peace
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Infidelity is a much better understanding. Since it involves breaking your promise of allegiance. To God or to whomever one gives allegiances to.
Peace
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Let's talk about a very mundane example of zina witnessed by millions everyday.
Corrupt politicians is what I'm talking about. All of them are harlots to corporate interests. They betray their allegiance to those voting for them by defending the interests of the corporations financially backing their election campaigns. Their zina is a betrayal of their allegiance they swear into by oath to the constitution. To cover up this harlotry in some western countries corporations are by law natural persons. They have all the rights of a natural person yet can not be persecuted for crimes they commit.
I say such crimes deserve at least a punishment by the whip.
Peace
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Let's talk about a very mundane example of zina witnessed by millions everyday.
Corrupt politicians is what I'm talking about. All of them are harlots to corporate interests ...
... I say such crimes deserve at least a punishment by the whip.I mean no disrespect @rlz but, "politicians" have nothing to do with this!
For once, I don't see how "politics" has anything to do with getting 100 lashes, and receiving half of it (50l), for committing zin! The rampant crime of infidelity seems to be the intended meaning.
For examples of zin and/or fhisheh (in general) see The Jerry Springer Show.
The host is a former politician, btw
SLM