Islam was never as peaceful as you claim.
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Peace Jafar.
You say ( Your quotes in green)
1- The Religion of Islam is not a peaceful religion at all.
It depends what Islam you mean. A)"Traditional Islam as per "Sunnin, Shiite,...etc" or B) "True Islam" as per Qoran.
It doesn't matter, it can be "Sunni Islam", "Shiite Islam", "Quran Only Islam", "True Islam", "The Truest Islam" etc..
The name doesn't matter..
Once it has become a RELIGION marked by introduction of one or more DOGMA which is to be enforced to be believed by it's sect member and others. Then it will not be peaceful at all..2= The history of the Religion of Islam is full of conquest, raid, massacre, rape, oppression, slavery and torture.
All history can be a mixture of truth and "made up propaganda/ Victors point of view. It needs to be checked/evidenced.
Again, B)-True Islam" is against conquest,massacre,rape ,oppression,slavery and torture.
Once "True Islam" become a religion, the cycle of conquest, raid, massacre, rape, oppression, slavery and torture shall soon started.
The word islam has a meaning and it's an attitude, a character (muslim) within the same domain as "honest", "happy", "peaceful" etc..
One can for example invented a religion called "HONEST", and declare those who are not "HONEST" were subjected for conversion, invasion, torture and their blood are allowable to be shed.
And I will agree if someone say
"Honest were never as honest as they claimed, infact they're a bunch of liars and hypocrites".Salam / Peace
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Peace Jafar.
Brother, never mind what "one" declares.,if human.
What about when GOD ( Creator/Originator/cause of all this...) declares in His message? Or is there no message from GOD?Or is there no GOD?
When you say
One can for example invented a religion called "HONEST", and declare those who are not "HONEST" were subjected for conversion, invasion, torture and their blood are allowable to be shed.
My answer to that is simple,if he was "truly honest" ,he should/would not do such a thing,according to the message from the Creator!
It just means he is pretending to be "Honest" or misunderstanding what "Honest" is. It does not mean "Honest" does not exist or is not a "Deen"?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Jafar.
Brother, never mind what "one" declares.,if human.
What about when GOD ( Creator/Originator/cause of all this...) declares in His message? Or is there no message from GOD?Or is there no GOD?
What about it?
If this GOD is the true controller of this universe, He / It doesn't need to "declare or send message".
As what it will or plan shall be executed.. as it is the planner and also the executor.I'm sorry but I don't buy to the idea about a Deity who wrote a book and got pissed of if somebody did a bad review of his book and burned them to hell for all eternity.
What usually happened was an insane psychopathic ruler declare that his propaganda book / decrees is to be declared as HOLY across his kingdom/fiefdom/sultanate/caliphate whatever.. and those who dare to criticize and / or do a bad review and / or do not believe that his propaganda book / decrees are backed by a Deity and 100% true shall be put to DEATH.
As thus the insane ruler has created an insane religion based on his insane propaganda book / decrees which MUST be recognized as HOLY BOOK.
Salam / Peace
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"Kill the disbelievers until they repent and perform Salat"
But Islam is "peaceful" )
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I'm sorry but I don't buy to the idea about a Deity who wrote a book and got pissed of if somebody did a bad review of his book and burned them to hell for all eternity.
Aren't we supposed to ponder upon the verses and not apply anything without understanding them? Won't that mean sometimes coming up with bad review of his book? Those who are patience and open minded will however blame their lack of understanding instead of cursing the deity.
I thought we would be thrown in hell if we do things against Quran.
As thus the insane ruler has created an insane religion based on his insane propaganda book / decrees which MUST be recognized as HOLY BOOK.
I don't think the ruler needs to do it. A normal human being who received guidance and benefits from it can also consider it holy.
Insane rulers don't read the holy book. They make up their own rules and force their nation to follow them by saying they have been approved by God.Kill the disbelievers until they repent and perform Salat
Distorted by rulers who love to kill!
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Hi reel,
Distorted by rulers who love to kill!
I know the passages actually do not say something like that, but I just took an example of how people interpret it traditionally. Qatal does not mean kill and kafar does mean that someone is deluded, i.e. confused into believing something that is not true. The true account is that the passages speak about convincing people about God, defeating them in their delusion. It is hard to reach a sectarian person, but it is possible if you aim for the right argument and keep calm.
Be well
Emanuel -
Peace Jafar.
OK,so you are asking
What about it?
If this GOD is the true controller of this universe, He / It doesn't need to "declare or send message".
As what it will or plan shall be executed.. as it is the planner and also the executor.How about if "sending a message with instructions" to us was the plan?
You may say we are already" programmed" with a basic instinct to choose?
I say ,the plan was for both,the basic instinct and the message .
The trial is in process to bring out your true conviction. The "ego" has to be tamed.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
The message is just that, to tame the beast/ego
Be well
Emanuel -
Qatal does not mean kill and kafar does mean that someone is deluded, i.e. confused into believing something that is not true. The true account is that the passages speak about convincing people about God, defeating them in their delusion. It is hard to reach a sectarian person, but it is possible if you aim for the right argument and keep calm.
This is simply not true. Qatal does mean kill. The root word is many times used on steles speaking of the slaying of their enemies (resulting in their deaths). One of the most famous ones is the Tel Dan stele.
Your understanding of kfr is also flawed; see http//rootsofislamtruehistory.com/subpages/KFR-root_from_Bible_to_Koran.htm
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I don't know where the "religion of peace" meme came from. The quran allows to wage war against aggressors. Yes, if you're an empire, and try to take me, another empire, I as an empire can wreck you all the way to your capitol, if I have to go that far to stop you from destroying me.
There's nothing wrong with that. The quran clearly states to maintain a strong military to deter potential aggressors from attacking.
This is basically what the USA has done militarily. There's LITERALLY nothing wrong with this, and self defence as well.
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It also says that you should kill disbelievers unless they perform Salat.
That interpretation is bogus.
Be safe
Emanuel -
Peace Man Of Faith.
Each generation has their ways/traditions/...Do you think GOD is not aware of this?
You are putting everything into the same mix and interpreting Qoran according to "how you see things" only?
Are you willing to accept that sometimes Qoran addresses you and me ,sometimes it addresses what was relevant when the prophet was alive,sometimes it addresses only certain generation,with lessons to all of us.
When you say It also says that you should kill disbelievers unless they perform Salat. Are you aware of the history and the situation that existed at that time? Are you reading all the verses incontext?
For example when GOD says
813
This is what they have justly incurred by fighting God and His messenger. For those who fight against God and His messenger, God's retribution is severe.What is the history/event behind this? What is the lesson? Or what is your interpretation of it?
Then this
839
You shall fight them to ward off oppression, and to practice your deen devoted to God alone. If they refrain from aggression, then God is fully Seer of everything they do.Again same questions apply? Or what is your interpretation of this?
Or these verses
860
You shall prepare for them all the power you can muster, and all the equipment you can mobilize, that you may frighten the enemies of God, your enemies, as well as others who are not known to you; God knows them. Whatever you spend in the cause of God will be repaid to you generously, without the least injustice.861
If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in God. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.And the same questions can be asked here...
Of course GOD is not saying "kill the disbelievers if they do not observe salat" ,that is your own corruption by leaving out the "context" to make it look absurd.
Read /ponder/study Qoran properly and convey its true message. Do not ignore most of it and present only your limited understanding and claim some absurd interpretation without context .To me not only the "Mullahs/Islamic scholars..." are abusing/doing injustice to Qoran,also those that ignore a big chunk of its message/lessons...are doing the same.
So many are now hell bent on claiming Qoran matches their belief/ideal,that they are "abusing"it, hijacking /hiding/twisting its true meaning to fit their belief/agenda...
We have to make sure/be careful if we know we are accountable before GOD.However one can give his/her opinion ,providing they make this clear to others.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace mmkhan
I've read that, it's interesting. However do you claim that man mentioned in my non-muslim resources who is called there as Muhammad and is leader of Arabs isn't a Messanger of God who brought Quran? Where is Quran coming from then? Who and when wrote it?Peace brother,
Sorry for late reply.
Red Yes that is because alQuraan does not support this claims.
Blue It came down in Arabic writing from Allah same as it was given to Musa in writing. Please click here to see this aayat.
Green It is since Adam. To whom it was given is not important at all. As you can see in 172 that the book was given to Musa but it was not a guidance for Musa but for Bani Isreal.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Good logic,
The decree has always been the same, and the "enemy" has always been the same too, i.e. our Body and its Satan.
Methodology may vary but the approach must remain the same.
Be safe
Emanuel -
Hi,
How if you remove Muhammad from the picture of Islam?
Do you see it peaceful now?No? Islam is an inherently violent religion.
Lets take what they claim, the false things they say, and see how we can make them true after all and to our benefit.
Islam is Violent, it is Violent towards many things.
Let me describe to you a form of Violence and a form of Peace.
A colony settles in a place, and the colonists find ample resources to feed on, and they thrive and they grow peacefully spreading and spreading. It is a colony of bacteria, part of an infection. Now for the violence Medicine, anti-bacterial medication that kills the peacefully spreading bacteria in order to keep the body from further harm.
Islam is a violent religion in the same way. If one reads what it says, it promotes violence in the same way as the the field of medicine promotes violence in order to bring people a better condition of life.
Islam promotes hatred too. Hatred towards injustice, vileness, oppression, cruelty, fraud, treachery and all the conceptual diseases which rot away mankind's life and corrupt their enjoyment of their experience.
Islam is a Poison, just like the poisonous medications which murder the bacterial colonies causing infections.
Islam is a Death Cult, focused on death, in many ways, preparing for one's own death, spreading the cause of the death of evilness in our lives where possible (known as purification of religion), and the worship of the Supreme Ultimate who brings Death and is like Death itself, who we "return to" when we experience Nothing in sleep and in death (no information to experience so skipped to the next moment of experience).
So what they say is true, regardless of their intentions and their erroneous thinking.
Islam is indeed a violent religion, a religion of hatred, a religion of death, it is not peaceful in the sense of telling people to sit by and let infection spread, it is all about harm, from the top to the bottom and in many ways.
Islam teaches to FIGHT and to KILL, and to WAR. To FIGHT Evil wherever you fight it, to KILL Disease whenever you can, and to be in a constant state of WAR, struggling to achieve and exceed in beauty as a chivalrous warrior in the cause of righteousness.
Islamic history is thus full of human violence as well, just as the history of humans and monkeys and lions and turtles and walruses is full of violence.
So when you come along trying to show this or that, just skip the silliness and lay it out on the plate whatever you want to say.
If you want to say that Jesus is the Son of God then go ahead and say it. If you want to say Islam is bad, just go ahead and say whatever you want, this place is called "Free-Minds" after all, and I had been banned for a month haha for saying the kinds of things that I say perhaps.
Just say "whatever your heart tells you", no need for little "convincing factoids", you want to say something, just say it plainly.
Islam is a Violent Hateful Religion that worships Evil (the power of Harm). If you won't say it, I will say it, and I will say it boldly and I can explain it too.
The "points" the people make on this website are usually pretty silly. They don't notice that they fall right into the trap of thinking PEACE is necessarily good and VIOLENCE is necessarily bad. That is what I was trying to point out in my example too, among other things.
Islam in my view, would be truly harmful, if it said to turn the other cheek in all cases. Peace is vile tolerance for disease, and Peace can be a wicked thing.
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Imagine if religions did not exist at all then those things wouldn't happen. However to say that Islam is the only religion responsible is very moronic. All religions are terrible.
Lots of people say that. Wouldn't humans in their lust for resources find any other excuses to bolster war? They would kill each other over hair color tints as well. This knowledge comes from actually observing human beings, it is not to dissimilar from cats, who also fight territorial battles and harm one another, even slapping the backs of other cats heads when they are not looking.