Jonah---Never swallowed by a whale

good_logic

Peace zayd.

Please translate the following verses ,if you do not mind

I wonder if this agrees with what you said in your earlier post?

I also wonder how one can get away from the "big fish" by swimming away no matter how good and fast a human is at swimming?

GOD bless you.
Peace

good_logic

Peace zayd.

Here is the definition of " Makthoom"

contained ; inhibited ; kept in ; penned ; pent-up ; repressed ; suppressed

bridled ; checked ; confined ; controlled ; curbed ; in check ; low-key(ed) ; restrained ; subdued ; under control

Jonah must have been "inside"?

My understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace

Fusion

Could it be just a reference to the Prophet Muhammad about the prophet Jonah (like a reference to prophet who was about to be eaten by fish) and subsequent problems faced because he left his nation and was cast out by the boat people and had a terrible encounter with the fish which must have left him wounded etc
What I mean to say is that these 2 verses do not also implicate of the prophet Jonah being in the stomach ... in my view point.

Not that I am not believing that God is capable of all things, however he has himself set many laws of nature which is not broken usually unless he himself wants it.

I feel it is more probable for a person to believe in Islam and God these days if we address such stories with logic and wisdom rather than miracles.

cheers

Peace zayd.

Please translate the following verses ,if you do not mind

I wonder if this agrees with what you said in your earlier post?

I also wonder how one can get away from the "big fish" by swimming away no matter how good and fast a human is at swimming?

GOD bless you.
Peace

SAbboushi

How do you define 'miracle'?

good_logic

peace Fusion.

Looking at some stories from the Qoran s point of view defies our limited logic.

Did Moses part the sea?

Did Jesus heal the leper?

Was Jonah swallowed by a whale?

Was Abraham saved from the fire?

Were Noah s people drowned by the flood?

Is GOD real? That story alone can defy our logic.

Believing is both faith and reason. Logic and defying logic. It depends on how certain one is about Qoran.
GOD bless you.
Peace

zayd

I also wonder how one can get away from the "big fish" by swimming away no matter how good and fast a human is at swimming?

I don't know what the circumstances were, whether there was a boat (or even people) nearby, how close he was to the boat or to the shore (or to the riverbank), what type of fish it was or its size, which part of his body did the fish get a bite of and how serious his injury was, whether he fought back and how, I don't know. But it's quite plausible and people do survive from shark attacks, for example.

But suppose Jonah really did get swallowed whole (by what, a whale, a fish, of what kind?), how did he get out from the belly? What do you think had happened there and why do you think this isn't far-fetched? And if you're just gonna say that he got out by God's will and grace, then why can't I say that he got away by God's will and grace?

Please translate the following verses

I'm not that good. And looking at the different translations, I don't even know what is about anymore.

http//quranix.org/68#48

http//islamawakened.com/68/48/
http//islamawakened.com/68/49/

http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=68&verse=48

http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=kZm

http//www.studyquran.co.uk/11_KAF.htm

Kaf-Za-Miim

To shut, stop, abstract, suppress one?s anger, choke, tight or fill something with a check, abstain from chewing the end.

kaziim - one who is grieving inwardly and in silence, repressor of rage, filled with sorrow that is suppressed.

makzuum - oppressed and depressed with grief.

http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=kZm

http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=nb*

http//www.studyquran.co.uk/15_NUN.htm

Nun-Ba-Dhal/Thal

to throw, fling, give up, cast off, reject, throw a thing because of its worthlessness or not taking into account.

http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=nbdh

http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Ery

http//www.studyquran.co.uk/2_AYN.htm

Ayn-Ra-Ya

to become naked, denude of (garments).

ara - bare desert or place, open field, waste land, shore.

http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=ery

Fusion

Honestly I do not believe in them, I just used the term as a figure of speech to make a point that when we cant explain things logically or we do not have the information available to us (us as in human in all times, past and present) we tend to call it a miracle.

I am sorry if I misled you into believing that I believe in them. I would like folks here to correct me please if there is such a thing as miracle.

Some times we hear and watch stories of people survive earth quakes (very few while rest all dear) and came out alive from the destroyed building after many days. I mean If God wants, all is possible, but I believe for them to be alive, there must be some laws which allowed them to be kept alive like for example some passage or room deep down there for them to have oxygen. it is not as simple that they were dead, rotten for days and then suddenly they became alive. God has created this world and we many not know all secrets and he has all power and he utilizes his nature to make things possible which otherwise looks not rational to us.
There could have been some ways that God can set in motion for Jonah to even be in fish stomach and still alive.... I do not know but it is possible-purely on the merit that we do not know all things about nature(science).
Certain things can be obvious to me while looks impossible to others hence they could term as miracle...

I found the following verses (English transl from G.A.Pervaiz)

(37-142) The boat was overloaded and so it
sank. A big fish seized Jonah in its mouth,
Realising the situation Jonah cursed himself
He struggled hard and after a
lot of effort, freed himself from the grip of
the fish. If he had not done so and had he not
been a good swimmer, the fish would have
swallowed him; and it would not have been
possible for him to come out till doomsday.

How do you define 'miracle'?

good_logic

Peace zayd.

You are entitled to say this

...And if you're just gonna say that he got out by God's will and grace, then why can't I say that he got away by God's will and grace?

What I was suggesting is to gather all the verses about Jonah and see if there is a consistency with one s story.

For example ,elsewhere we find this " Idh naada fi althulumaati an la ilaha illa anya inni kuntu mina ..."

Since " Althulumaat" means darkness, which darkness was it?

Does "Musabbiheen" mean glorifying/imploring or swimming? and so on....

What does Qoran really say ?
I was trying to ask more questions.

If you are satisfied with your understanding,then fair enough.

GOD bless you.
Peace

zayd

Since " Althulumaat" means darkness, which darkness was it?

There are verses that talk about the darkness of bahr/bodies of water (663, 2440, 2763), and also verses that talk about darkness figuratively ("from out of the darkness and into the light&quot. The one in could very well be both.

http//islamawakened.com/21/87/

Does "Musabbiheen" mean glorifying/imploring or swimming? and so on....

"To swim hard" is one of the meanings of S-B-H and fits the context in . What we usually understand as glorifying God, I now understand as something like "to strive/work hard towards/for God".

Fusion

All of what you said have been discussed on this site and people have given answers with logic and wisdom and I have gone thru those posts and realized that the error in our judgment is purely based on our understanding of how these events could be possible to have happened and if our mind does not comprehend we will tend to give up and accept the literal meanings.

Moses never part the sea literally, it was God who revealed info to Moses to take his people at certain time/point/direction when the water level was set too low/dry there, and this has been discussed on this site in detail (It wasn't even a sea for example). I am not going into details but please search.

Similarly.
(69) Thus while they were busy flaming
the fire of revenge, We were planning a way
to cool down its flames so that no harm
would come to Abraham,

How do I take Quran literally or take those verses as metaphors is the question and am at a loss some times but I DO hope and want to believe that God is capable of all things and every thing is possible for him. However I also believe that god has chosen messengers from us and those were also subjected to the same physical laws with the exception that God is on their side.

There are of course many questions in my mind too but I think it is impossible to know exactly what God means , until we meet him and ask. -) Looking at all of the religions and books, I found Quran as the book which gives me comfort and although there may be many verses which I may not understand but the central theme is One God and none others which qualifies for all of the logics and wisdom in my dictionary.
Cheers

peace Fusion.

Looking at some stories from the Qoran s point of view defies our limited logic.

Did Moses part the sea?

Did Jesus heal the leper?

Was Jonah swallowed by a whale?

Was Abraham saved from the fire?

Were Noah s people drowned by the flood?

Is GOD real? That story alone can defy our logic.

Believing is both faith and reason. Logic and defying logic. It depends on how certain one is about Qoran.
GOD bless you.
Peace

good_logic

Peacee Fusion/zayd.

I am merely asking questions.

I expect people to go with their understanding of course.

I am not going to enforce anything on anyone.

However , Qoran deals with beliefs that require both faith and reason/Science/logic.

Sometimes ,yes stories have happened literaly and to serve as lessons...etc.

For example when Moses was sent to Pharoah,what happened?was it literal?

And We have sent Moses with Our Ayah?s (miracles or signs) to Pharaoh and his elders proclaiming ?I am a messenger from the Lord of the universe?. When he brought them our Ayah?s they laughed at him. Every Ayah We showed them was greater than the one that preceded it.? 4346-48

Someone will explain the "plagues" similar to what they explain other "Aayats" i.e signs/miracles... Does this mean they did not happen?

Just to ponder and search deep ,that s all.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Fusion

Buddy, I did not say you wanna enforce anything upon others, certainly you cant enforce faith upon others unless you make them really believe from bottom of their hearts OR you show these people some Magic and you have a different agenda, which has happened ironically. Unfortunately I spent time with the people who believe in curse, nazar, magic, cast bad spells etc in order to justify their sufferings or to cause others ills, and those were all Muslims by faith.
Is it not the most ironic thing that most of the non-arabs muslims do not know more than a few verses of quran for the sake of prayers?
Because the do not know Arabic or perhaps because the priests in their culture make them not to read Quran with translation as this will make the people ask questions and those so called priest will lose their power upon them.

I am but student and I started Quran understanding with a couple of years ago. The more I read, the more doubtful I become, until came a point where things started to make sense and I hope my journey will continue in the same manner.

There are some good people here who helped me as well. The verse 48 to me means that God punishments successively appeared in different forms with each new one more severe, for the purpose to make the rebellious leave their evil path.

I wanna share something here.

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=LChGfJMur5o

The woman is talking about not believing in Angel Gabrael and the authenticity, saying that since there is no proof of such a person as Gabrael (even though there are proofs of all these men whom we called messengers from history for being reformers and helper of poor folks and with books) ever exited, hence the concept of wahi can not be true, and which implies no divine message was revealed.

So yes I agree with your statement that Quran expects believers to believe in FAITH. Simply put it. you must believe in Angels. Now its not similar that you can equate angels with god, saying that since you don't see or prove god, so its the same. No, there are many many signs around us that compel us to believe in the creator and his creations. But no such signs for what is called an Angel. except the fact that this concept is repeated from old scriptures/prophets with continuity and down to prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

So how can some one prove existence of Angels with logic and wisdom ??? I wish if folks can give me an answer as this would be a great help to my understanding.

What are the roles of Angels in this universe? is all of this documented in Quran? For example if we see disasters happening around us like earthquakes , tsunamis .. are these carried out by angles upon God instructions? Similar to the verses where two strangers came to Ibrahim as guests but were actually angels sent to destroy people of Lot. By this definition, there are disasters more than that of people of Lot (different kinds of viruses killing humanity in recent time) hence are we being cursed and punished by God, the only difference is that there is no prophet among us today to actually explain this phenomenon to us.

The point is that same chain of events are happening now, as they happened thousands years ago , cause and effect, peace and war, are we to believe the same context???

Cheers

Peacee Fusion/zayd.

I am merely asking questions.

I expect people to go with their understanding of course.

I am not going to enforce anything on anyone.

However , Qoran deals with beliefs that require both faith and reason/Science/logic.

Sometimes ,yes stories have happened literaly and to serve as lessons...etc.

For example when Moses was sent to Pharoah,what happened?was it literal?

And We have sent Moses with Our Ayah?s (miracles or signs) to Pharaoh and his elders proclaiming ?I am a messenger from the Lord of the universe?. When he brought them our Ayah?s they laughed at him. Every Ayah We showed them was greater than the one that preceded it.? 4346-48

Someone will explain the "plagues" similar to what they explain other "Aayats" i.e signs/miracles... Does this mean they did not happen?

Just to ponder and search deep ,that s all.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

huruf

All this questions about belief in God or angels depend on the first place on the idea one has of God and angels or whatever else. Many people who say they do not believe in God I could say that I don't believe either in the God they are thinking of, which continues, even considering him abstract or incorporeal, being a man, rather bypolar and not very logical. Weknow though, root of being itself is beyond us, beyondm our comprehension.

With angels I have the same "problem" I can't get a clear idea of them. I wuould dare to imagine that they are the agency through which God may manifest things for us. I would not think they are the movers of nature, I would think that is in nature laws themselves, but may be they are our movers in circumstances or all the time.

Salaam

good_logic

Peace Fusion.

That s it. Keep asking questions and learning and studying Qoran.

Of course we can have different views/opinions... But it does not mean we cannot grasp the truth.

The most important message from Qoran is to work on oneself and become a good soul. This requires time and effort and patience and help from GOD as we are being tried while going through this process.

We can start from any position of belief. Then we begin by getting to know about GOD,Angels ,scripture ,messengers, the straight path...And so on.

It does not really matter what Angels look like or what happened in the past, I mean it is pointless arguing about it.

I believe Qoran has all the answers we need for our salvation. We cannot know everything.

If we believe in Qoran, then we are asked to study/ponder and be patient until we attain certainty.

I have not asked ,in my posts,anyone to follow me ,neither have I said I am right or wrong in my understanding. I always ask people to check and find out for themselves.

However I point out that Qoran always advices us to be loyal to GOD Alone, trust only GOD, rely only on GOD. i.e Not to rely/trust /take as authority any of GOD s creations.

We should read//study/look at other views/advice/opinion and take what is best and what agrees with Qoran.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Fusion

What you said is cool and all fits perfectly if one has absolute belief in the Quran being word of God, every part of it with no changes whatsoever. If that belief is attained then definitely the path of journey becomes rather easier to travel.

So the question would be if one has already attained the above belief then he/she would read Quran and take it slow and try to understand bit by bit and if things look non logical or magical or miraculous on the surface, am sure with God's guidance, he/she will certainly hope to get an answer in his/her life before he/she passes away.

My question is what makes one have absolute belief in the first point, is it because he was born as muslim or because he was converted or because he read and understood... hence my question to you.. what makes you believe in Quran with absolute 100% comfort level, that it is indeed the word of God. am not questioning in the wrong way but I welcome every one to share what events or study etc make em believe in its truthfulness??? and how they crossed the line to be on the other side---believers.(angels/books/prophets)