Why Should We Believe the Quran is Divine?
-
Salaam Osman!
I remember being immediately filled with fervent faith when coming cross the numerological miralces of the Quran and how this proved beyond doubt its divinity - I'm referring to "day" being mentioned 365 times and other words etc. in sites such as Harun Yahya, then when actually doing the work myself to validate this I remember feeling the dejection of low of realising that "day" doesn't appear 365 times at all and most of the claims made on sites like Harun Yahya's are bold faced lies.
Actually I hate to tell you this, but you're wrong. The word day does appear 365 times. I recently counted this myself and posted about it here.
I even provided pictures from the Quran software Zekr that I used to search for the words.
I got really excited and went and told some friends. And one of them responded with, "what about the word 'month'?"
I told him "That appears 12 times!"
The he asked "What about 'months'?"Well..months, doesn't seem to have any relevance whatsoever, and now that has irritated me ever since he pointed it out! Why make 'day' appear 365 times, 'days' appear 30 times and 'month' appear 12 times, only for 'months' to appear a totally random number of times?
But I digress.
Actually I think that Quranic divinity is the result of a number of factors. The numerology aspect is definitely impressive to me, but there are a few other things that stand out to me.
First - we can immediately perceive in the tafsirs and hadiths plenty of manifestly incorrect things to do with science. For example, I believe it was in Ibn Kathir that it was stated that the earth sits floats on an ocean, which sits in a bowl, which sits on the horns of a bull...or something like that. The Quran has nothing like this. There isn't even a single occasion when the Quran says "if a fly falls into your drink, dip it into the liquid because the disease is on 1 wing and the cure for the disease is on the other." Do you see what I mean? The tafsirs and hadiths are perfect examples what everyday desert-dwelling people believed in 1400 years ago. The Quran isn't.
Secondly - the Quran has a mysteriously consistent logical exposition. Many stories are written in a step-by-step rational rhetorical style. I mentioned elsewhere in the forum that I started a project a few years ago that I abandoned out of laziness, where I tried to follow the Quran's logical argument. I found that the beginning of surah 2 has an extremely strong logical pattern. Just as an example
21-5 this is the book - an explanation of what the book is (hudan lil-muttaqeen). and an explanation of who these ppl are
5-20 definition of who the kuffar are > confrontations with others and lying (11,13,14)
17-20 analogies of the kuffar
21-26 therefore worship Him + reasons given for worship- creation, a catering environment, and paradise (25)
22-23 if you doubt then bring forth an equal surah or witnesses; this finishes the argument from beginning (let there be no doubt)
26 parable of a gnat
27-29 again describing the iniquitous. and giving reasons to believe.So to summarize what happens in the first 30 verses of surah 2, we get an introduction to what the book is, a description of who the good and bad people are, analogies to help people understand, instruction to worship, reasons for worship, challenge to deniers, 2nd description of bad people, questions how one can still deny, and then 2nd time same reasons given to worship.
This sort of logical exposition is especially apparent later on with the story of the Israelites from verse 40 to 70.
-
Hello Osman,
The 14 chapters with their so-called initials carry certain weight for me personally after I realized they actually hint a perceptive reader towards the fact that Arabic (and for that sake Semitic) letters carry an innate meaning and the one composing Quran was well aware of that fact while the amateurish interpreters throughout the centuries have not even been close to knowing why these mysterious letters introduce the chapters.
But if one reads and understands Quran from the viewpoint of all those amateurish interpreters they will not even gain 1% of the scripture's total wisdom but rather a Pagan religion based on hardcore worship of an image called Allah while Allah means "who such is". Also the word Allah is a cryptic, esoteric word God basically uses to refer to someone "who lives" because "they are". It is based on a root-word that is Alif-Lam-Lam which the AL article is also based on but All - ah uses the full root with a third-person suffix and means "near to a kind or near to something (in features or quality)", which means Allah means "who is such as" with the third-person being the "who". The reason for this is the symbiotic coexistence in God that we are supposed to find and it should be understood in conjunction with the mysterious Messianic saying "I am in the Father and the Father in me" which basically teaches the same thing as what God spoke to Moses about "I am who am I" (see below). People seem perplexed to what this expression means and I am saying it out loud in text form here, but it is up to you to be able to accept it.
For those willing to accept it, that stems from the narrative where Moses (Musa) gets in contact with God and God says "I am who am I". Allah is obviously the third-person version of this. That was a few thousand years ago and obviously ignorant wannabe interpreters have twisted its implication.
There is nothing such as a god that is supposed to be pleased through Pagan means of satisfaction of a huge ego larger than the biggest mountain on Earth. The God that exists is a symbiotic phenomenon in absolute Oneness and the wise one finds a place under Its umbrella (I am talking in parables oftentimes). The fool thinks that there is an image to worship and that everything has to do with believing while it is rather a matter of realization.
Be safe
Amenuel -
You guys are making this harder then it actually is, there is in no way of convincing anyone the "Quran is Divine".
Indeed, , you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the guided.
These "miracles" are completely objective to whether someone believes or disbelieves due to witnessing them. We see this clearly with the miracle that Musa demonstrated to the Children of Israel, parting the sea (personally my opinion, most amazing miracle in my book), and they STILL did not believe.
Tribe of Israel! Remember the blessing I conferred on you and that I preferred you over all other beings. (247)
Remember when We rescued you from the people of Pharaoh. They were inflicting an evil punishment on you-slaughtering your sons and letting your women live. In that there was a terrible trial for you from your Lord. (249)
And when We parted the sea for you and rescued you, and drowned the people of Pharaoh while you watched. (250)
Musa brought you the Clear Signs; then, after he left, you adopted the Calf and were wrongdoers. Remember when We made a covenant with you and lifted up the Mount above your heads "Take hold vigorously of what We have given you and listen." They said, "We hear and disobey." They were made to drink the Calf into their hearts because of their disbelief. Say, "If you are believers, what an evil thing your faith has made you do." (292-93)
On the metaphysical level, we are only dependent on God making us believe or not. Therefore, our proof is that He caused us to believe that His scripture is divine. Therefore if we can say that "miracles" in itself is what convinces us, we are associating them to the One, God.
Glory be to God, the Controller of of ALL things!
-
-
.....
i think it's good to believe in the quran because once again it's full of "miracles" (unexplained or investigated events and occurances)you should believe in the quran because it's true and teaches wisdom, like a physic book (which it is) and like a science book (which it is) and like a psychology book (which it is)
i have a question for you osman, i'm glad you came to free-minds your lighting up the place lots of good post , but here's a question
what is a miracle?
and another question
what is divine (being of a diety)?
give me an answer based on your own understanding of a miracle i think miracles are just unexplained science like the creation of earth or the dead returning to life, even the soul is affected by chemicals so what is a miracle and what is or is not divine (of a diety)?
sorry to post a question under a question post
-
Peace everyone,
If there are few or none contradictions in the Quran, then this might prove that the Quran is divine.
Quran 482 Do they not reflect on the Quran? If it were from any other than God they would have found many contradictions in it.
Personally, I have found no contradictions in the Quran.
Has anyone found many contradictions in the Quran?
Let me hear your thoughts.
-
Peace everyone,
If there are few or none contradictions in the Quran, then this might prove that the Quran is divine.
Quran 482 Do they not reflect on the Quran? If it were from any other than God they would have found many contradictions in it.
Personally, I have found no contradictions in the Quran.
Has anyone found many contradictions in the Quran?
Let me hear your thoughts.
The whole traditional interpretation of Quran is a contradiction in itself ;D
-
The whole traditional interpretation of Quran is a contradiction in itself ;D
Like the interpretation were you are told to beat your wife or have a sex slave. Today's translations of the Quran is heavily influenced by hadith books. Hadith followers have translated the Quran with the intention of trying to fit the Quran into the hadith book collection. The Arabic language is also heavily influenced by them.
-
Like the interpretation were you are told to beat your wife or have a sex slave. Today's translations of the Quran is heavily influenced by hadith books. Hadith followers have translated the Quran with the intention of trying to fit the Quran into the hadith book collection. The Arabic language is also heavily influenced by them.
Bold and underlined That is still an understatement. ;D
But I agree yes
Be safe
Amenuel -
Just finished counting "yawm" myself to satisfy my curiosity. If there are any mistakes, please point them out.
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=ywm
The triliteral root y ww mm ( م occurs 405 times in the Quran as the nominal yawm (م.
365 singular
- 3 dual
- 27 plural
- 10 not counted (e.g. yawmikum)
= 405 total
Also not counted yawma-idhin
http//corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=lem%3Ayawoma}i*
SINGULAR x 365
- 14
- 28
- 248
- 262
- 285
- 2113
- 2123
- 2126
- 2174
- 2177
- 2212
- 2228
- 2232
- 2249
- 2254
- 2259
- 2259
- 2264
- 2281
- 39
- 325
- 330
- 355
- 377
- 3106
- 3114
- 3155
- 3161
- 3166
- 3180
- 3185
- 3194
- 438
- 439
- 459
- 487
- 4109
- 4136
- 4141
- 4159
- 4162
- 53
- 53
- 55
- 514
- 536
- 564
- 569
- 5109
- 5119
- 612
- 615
- 622
- 673
- 673
- 693
- 6128
- 6141
- 6158
- 714
- 732
- 751
- 753
- 759
- 7163
- 7163
- 7167
- 7172
- 841
- 841
- 848
- 93
- 918
- 919
- 925
- 929
- 935
- 936
- 944
- 945
- 977
- 999
- 9108
- 1015
- 1028
- 1045
- 1060
- 1092
- 1093
- 113
- 118
- 1126
- 1143
- 1160
- 1177
- 1184
- 1198
- 1199
- 11103
- 11103
- 11105
- 1254
- 1292
- 1418
- 1431
- 1441
- 1442
- 1444
- 1448
- 1535
- 1536
- 1538
- 1625
- 1627
- 1627
- 1663
- 1680
- 1680
- 1684
- 1689
- 1692
- 16111
- 16124
- 1713
- 1714
- 1752
- 1758
- 1762
- 1771
- 1797
- 1819
- 1819
- 1847
- 1852
- 18105
- 1915
- 1915
- 1915
- 1926
- 1933
- 1933
- 1933
- 1937
- 1938
- 1938
- 1939
- 1985
- 1995
- 2059
- 2064
- 20100
- 20101
- 20102
- 20104
- 20124
- 20126
- 2147
- 21104
- 222
- 229
- 2217
- 2247
- 2255
- 2269
- 2316
- 2365
- 23100
- 23111
- 23113
- 23113
- 242
- 2424
- 2437
- 2464
- 2514
- 2517
- 2522
- 2525
- 2526
- 2527
- 2569
- 2638
- 2682
- 2687
- 2688
- 26135
- 26155
- 26156
- 26189
- 26189
- 2783
- 2787
- 2841
- 2842
- 2861
- 2862
- 2865
- 2871
- 2872
- 2874
- 2913
- 2925
- 2936
- 2955
- 3012
- 3014
- 3043
- 3055
- 3056
- 3056
- 3133
- 325
- 3225
- 3229
- 3321
- 3344
- 3366
- 3430
- 3440
- 3442
- 3514
- 3654
- 3655
- 3659
- 3664
- 3665
- 3720
- 3721
- 3726
- 37144
- 3816
- 3826
- 3853
- 3878
- 3879
- 3881
- 3913
- 3915
- 3924
- 3931
- 3947
- 3960
- 3967
- 4015
- 4016
- 4016
- 4017
- 4017
- 4018
- 4027
- 4029
- 4030
- 4032
- 4033
- 4046
- 4049
- 4051
- 4052
- 4119
- 4140
- 4147
- 427
- 4245
- 4247
- 4339
- 4365
- 4368
- 4410
- 4416
- 4440
- 4441
- 4517
- 4526
- 4527
- 4528
- 4534
- 4535
- 465
- 4620
- 4620
- 4621
- 4634
- 4635
- 5020
- 5022
- 5030
- 5034
- 5041
- 5042
- 5042
- 5044
- 5112
- 5113
- 529
- 5213
- 5246
- 546
- 548
- 5419
- 5448
- 5529
- 5650
- 5656
- 5712
- 5712
- 5713
- 5715
- 586
- 587
- 5818
- 5822
- 603
- 606
- 629
- 649
- 649
- 649
- 652
- 667
- 668
- 6824
- 6839
- 6842
- 6935
- 704
- 708
- 7026
- 7043
- 7044
- 7314
- 7317
- 749
- 7446
- 751
- 756
- 767
- 7610
- 7611
- 7627
- 7712
- 7713
- 7714
- 7735
- 7738
- 7817
- 7818
- 7838
- 7839
- 7840
- 796
- 7935
- 7946
- 8034
- 8215
- 8217
- 8218
- 8219
- 835
- 836
- 8311
- 8334
- 852
- 869
- 9014
- 1014
DUAL x 3
- 2203, yawmayn
- 419, yawmayn
- 4112, yawmayn
PLURAL x 27
- 280, ayyaamaa
- 2184, ayyaamaa
- 2184, ayyaam
- 2185, ayyaam
- 2196, ayyaam
- 2203, ayyaam
- 324, ayyaamaa
- 341, ayyaam
- 3140, al-ayyaam
- 589, ayyaam
- 754, ayyaam
- 103, ayyaam
- 10102, ayyaam
- 117, ayyaam
- 1165, ayyaam
- 145, bi-ayyaam
- 2228, ayyaam
- 2559, ayyaam
- 324, ayyaam
- 3418, ayyaamaa
- 4110, ayyaam
- 4116, ayyaam
- 4514, ayyaam
- 5038, ayyaam
- 574, ayyaam
- 697, ayyaam
- 6924, al-ayyaam
NOT COUNTED x 10
- 6130, yawmikum
- 751, yawmihim
- 21103, yawmukum
- 3214, yawmikum
- 3971, yawmikum
- 4383, yawmahum
- 4534, yawmikum
- 5160, yawmihim
- 5245, yawmahum
- 7042, yawmahum
-
Excellent thread!
thank you all -
Peace Osman
Who is the "we"? confused
God bless you
The 'we' is, 'we' as a community of people who take the Qur'an as a perfect and divinely created text, and use this text as the foundation for our world view and philosophy/religion, whatever you call it.
-
The 'we' is, 'we' as a community of people who take the Qur'an as a perfect and
divinely created text, and use this text as the foundation for our world view and
philosophy/religion, whatever you call it.Thank you Osman, you do see "we" can mean the human race which
includes believers, kafirs, hypocrites, tyrants, agnostics, atheists etc.,
so if the question is why should believers believe that the Quran is
divine I would say that the juncture where our will and the will of the
creator intersect is the reason we believe the Quran is divinely inspired.And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him
believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." Indeed, We have prepared
for the wrongdoers a fire whose walls will surround them. And if they call
for relief, they will be relieved with water like murky oil, which scalds
faces. Wretched is the drink, and evil is the resting place.So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to Islam;
and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted
as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement
upon those who do not believe.May God bless you
-
who take the Qur'an as a perfect and divinely created text
I do that too, but the interpretations I know are not divinely blessed... hypno
Be safe
Amenuel -
What do you mean Amenuel?
I mean that the Arabic that Quran stands for is very very very very very very very very very very very very different from the one that people know here and now nope
Be safe
Amenuel -
I mean that the Arabic that Quran stands for is very very very very very very very very very very very very different from the one that people know here and now nope
Be safe
Amenuelarabic is a language... then what is the quran? your very confusing how is the interpetations that much different you have to translate the parables the read does the translating and understanding for himself?
also is everyone speaking the same arabic why does one word have so many interpretation when entering into english this is also about other post. -
arabic is a language... then what is the quran? your very confusing how is the interpetations that much different you have to translate the parables the read does the translating and understanding for himself?
also is everyone speaking the same arabic why does one word have so many interpretation when entering into english this is also about other post.Quran is a very misinterpreted scripture given birth to a fabricated language by its interpreters. I do not know what else to write.
Be safe Amenuel
-
so...
I do realize that in asia and the middle-east there are a lot of Arabic words that have carried different meanings like a funny one is "falah" (prosperity) which from going to a masjid or two I've heard means falah (male reproductive organ) lol.
but makes it so misinterpreted?
are you saying as in people don't grasp the old "Arabian knights" Arabic to English with the similtudes and such, or is it not one of those foundation languages like latin and such?
I also remember you posted about the kaba and said people were worshipping it?
i'm a bit out of the loop but you have a opinion or experience with modern islam that you have not shared or I haven't heard.can you explain your views on islam, mainly just the things you disapprove of because those are the most important ones, and what is your view of the modern muslim,
I personally think they are just people with a book and no messenger but can you explain where your statements and ideas come from they are interesting but then you just cut them down without explaining any of them...it's a forum board speak freely man, it's like leaving a huge blank in the point you were going to make
