WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS FORUM?!!!!!!!! IS THIS RIGHT????!
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It has come to my attention that members here who do not conform with the majority ideology of this forum, may they be sectarians, Christians, atheists, "Flat earthers" ( I hate labeling forgive me) etc. have been targeted in some form or another because of their opposing views.
Targeted by whom? Other members or the admin? If the latter, please provide evidence of 'being targeted' for opposing views as opposed to a breach of the forum rules. If the former, what did you expect? It's a forum. There are those who share the same beliefs of the majority ideology in any forum and are populating the forum in a majority as opposed to the minorities. Any disagreement will have more of the majority posting than the minority. Here you're dealing with subsections upon subsections. Help! I believe in polygamy and am targeted by these monogamy crazies. Help! I believe in zina being something else other than what it is and am being targeted by the 'tradtionals in sheeps clothing'. Help! I believe in the flat earth but am targeted by the round earth majority. Help, I'm stuck in this forum and can't get out.
While I do not condone anyone breaching the agreement of conduct for the forum, even if there was such an act, in which the moderators are confronted with the burden of having to decide the banning of an individual I would personally like the disciplinary process to be carried out publicly where we can witness what the individuals are accused of. After all if they posted these things I am sure they have nothing to hide out of shame.
One can ask for information via PM. The banning process is what it is, please read the Forum Rules. There are reasons why it is done this way, some of which are to streamline the process and allowing individuals to explain themselves and sort issues privately without needless exposure which causes its own set of complications. We have discussed these issues over the course of the forum's history and thought about the pros and cons.I do however seriously oppose the censorship of anyone's posts or banning of that individual on suspicion of slander and so forth without the rest of us also being part of the process. Free minds needs to stay true its name and allow full transparency of the disciplinary decisions. How can you try someone without a jury or witnesses.
No one is banned without due process. We have different mods and they must agree to the evidence presented individually before any banning. Also, everything is recorded. Likewise material is not deleted unless it contains something extremely offensive or at the request of the poster. It's usually moved to the trash section. As explained, it is usually between the individual and those affected by the breach of rules. If one is curious, they may ask and be given the rundown.What if you are really bias on these individuals because of their ideologies or a personal rift?
You can ask for more information if unsure of what has transpired, if you still aren't convinced then don't participate.Should you be allowed to ban or censor this individual's posts?
Depends on the content and if it is against the forum rules.If this is in fact going on I want to remind the party in whose hand falls the burden of disciplining that they need to be rational, fair and unbiased and if they feel they cannot be then refrain from the disciplinary roll.
Good advice.I would also like to add that the admin of this forum have taken the brunt of abuse, slander and awful crap consistently over the decades. Abuse that if directed towards a member of the forum, we'd ban. We even give those individuals chances since it's just us and we are not members apparently. Some feel that it is their right to do so without any evidence just because they are the admin and thus must be responsible for nefarious activities. I would like to start a thread about how the admins are victims...but that would just be ridiculous )
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Targeted by whom? Other members or the admin? If the latter, please provide evidence of 'being targeted' for opposing views as opposed to a breach of the forum rules.
I should have stated MAY have been targeted. Glad you replied and did not ignore this though. Well I do not have any concrete evidence but ....
Let it be known that this individual has failed to prove this slander with any evidence whatsoever. The ID of one individual was provided after being asked and their posts still exist on the forum. This individual (Ahmed Bhagat) was banned for obscenities. Please be advised that slander is taken very seriously.
Were any of his posts deleted?
What transpired exactly?? I'm unsure.
I'm ready for the rundown ma'am/miss/mrs/ eat -
Were any of his posts deleted?
What transpired exactly?? I'm unsure.
I'm ready for the rundown ma'am/miss/mrs/
No posts were deleted other than the ones containing explicit language. I think there were a couple. Some others were moved due to being OT but not deleted. Almost all of his posts are exactly how they were in all their glory. Not sure exactly about who you're asking but the latter is self explanatory. The former was banned due to obscenities in his posts on this forum. He also had a 'wall of shame' on his personal forum where he called out individual female members from this forum sluts and other choice words along with their ID's and/or names. The male members were treated to the same courtesy in a different way.Any questions about individual members and the reasons for their banning etc we can talk about via PM. General questions/thoughts we can discuss on the board. Thank you for understanding.
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I would personally like the disciplinary process to be carried out publicly
Won't that equal to humiliation for the banned person?
Should you be allowed to ban or censor this individual's posts?
I think Free-minds is one of the few forums not afraid of opposing views. I haven't seen much banning here. Couple of months ago, one was banned because of turbulent posting (credit for the coined term goes to MOF). The person was also attacking members sometimes a bit too violently. Same was done by another banned user of a sect.
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For a forum on religious matters with its focus on Islam with yet much traditional religious values the forum is relatively tolerant to people who do not share the beliefs in these religious practices and that this is found within the one scripture that we have together. Some people participating do not even believe in Quran as directly inspired by God but think it is at best written by some insightful cleric.
There can be a problem if one does have arguments which go against the traditional interpretation of Quran however since it is in the administration's right to themselves judge whether a person violates the forum rule of having no basis in their arguments or not, and to have allegedly unfounded arguments is against the forum rules so a person arguing something controversial yet has studied what they write about may be accused of arguments with no basis. This is a problem I have run into and I constantly fear disciplinary action towards me. I know however that if I was on another less tolerant forum I would have been banned quite instantaneously. Due to this fear I sometimes avoid participation and to get involved in some discussions and brought my more "extreme" views to another forum.
It is okay to be an adversary towards Quran but it is not okay to take on a very controversial theory concerning Quran which challenges the traditional Islamic practices and even disqualifies them.
I suppose people think I am an extremist because people get this impression, but I just interpret the religious tradition of Abraham which involves detachment from this world and I understood that one's own self is their worst enemy. People compare me to extremist abstainers but if people knew me they would know better. The issue is not in the abstention itself but avoiding Satan's influence which I have interpreted as one's instinctive drive without any unfounded study included.
It is better to always eat the right amount of food and no or little sugar, coffee or tea etc than to occasionally fast. When you are allowed to eat but must regulate your consumption this is a harder challenge than to just stop eating at all. And many people eat more after completing their fasts.
Be safe
Amenuel -
He also had a 'wall of shame' on his personal forum where he called out individual female members from this forum sluts and other choice words along with their ID's and/or names.
WTH?! I feel like I've been asleep! What on Earth's been going on! What a disgraceful way to behave! Referring to women as "sluts", etc. really does demonstrate what a lowlife someone is- let alone creating a "wall of shame" in an attempt to subdue women. I have come across this many, many times in life where men-and women- are derogatory towards women's sexuality in order to try and suppress and control and regulate their behaviour. It really is shameful.
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Lol easy there es, it happened back in 2006 or something like that. But yes, I agree...it is quite shameful. He also had a habit of telling the forum exactly what he was doing at any given time. Once he told us about stealing someone's wifi to post on the forum while he was cruising in his car, the exact model of which he had also updated us with previously at some point. Quite a character.
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Lol easy there es, it happened back in 2006 or something like that. But yes, I agree...it is quite shameful. He also had a habit of telling the forum exactly what he was doing at any given time. Once he told us about stealing someone's wifi to post on the forum while he was cruising in his car, the exact model of which he had also updated us with previously at some point. Quite a character.
I think he should have been a police detective paying attention to all such things instead of wasting his time here or working in a hospital keeping journals.
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Peace.
Ya ,just what is going on in this forum?
Are some hackers getting into the system stealing your user name and posting on your behalf to get you banned?
Are the MODs employing some users as spies ,and investigating your habits and entries?
Are there any genuine members or is the forum made up of trolls outdoing each other?
Who are the secret agents who keep "PM-ing" members with threats and nuisance posts?
Or may be "religion" does that to all of us,and we start hallucinating?
If you ask me it is the moderators fault, simply because they happen to be "Moderators".
if you want to find out more, ask that "good logic " he does not have a clue!GOD bless.
Peace. -
"Won't that equal to humiliation for the banned person?"
an exemplary punishment? fair enough..
i dont think that EVERYONE is the forum should have some imput in banning people etc. I think the reponsiblity comes down to the Mods. simply because Its unfeasible to do it any other way. as long as they are just and reasonible
I dont think that there should be any other banning/deleting/etc etc except for clear things like abusing other members or being continually inappropriate with language etc.
I do agree with Transperancy though..
in terms of what else is going on. "secret agents", "hackers" (ill say ILLUMINATI!!!) lol i have this to say...
I think its just stupid people who like being trolls
in other cases. Security is as strong as its weakest link. Namely the Human beings using the software.
I.E....
people who use the same password for everything.
people who use the same favorite pet name etc. for their password.besides that..
using outdated softare...
like SMF 2.0.8
its a year old. the originaly 2.0 was released on Jun 11, 2011 (5 years ago) and the latest version is 2.0.11
considering the number one security vulnerability is not updating software, i would highly reccomend updating ASAP when it can be done.
Currently im working on a Quranic/Islamic site based on Tiki Wiki CMS with wiki,forum,articles,collaboration etc.
I think its far supperior software. with much better support, and development, including a regular release cycle, with Long Term Support releases.
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No posts were deleted other than the ones containing explicit language. I think there were a couple. Some others were moved due to being OT but not deleted. Almost all of his posts are exactly how they were in all their glory. Not sure exactly about who you're asking but the latter is self explanatory. The former was banned due to obscenities in his posts on this forum. He also had a 'wall of shame' on his personal forum where he called out individual female members from this forum sluts and other choice words along with their ID's and/or names. The male members were treated to the same courtesy in a different way.
Any questions about individual members and the reasons for their banning etc we can talk about via PM. General questions/thoughts we can discuss on the board. Thank you for understanding.
What is OT? And where are OT posts moved to?
The secret council are only so the shaitan may grieve the believers but not he can harm them in anything except which wills Allah and He is the protector of the believers.
Unless you have something to hide(I am not insinuating anything) I do not see the issue with continuing here. It seems more leaning towards righteousness to me.
The accusations made towards the individual in question is kind of irrelevant to me as I can't ascertain any of your claims, especially since the posts in questions have been moved... -
Now these people are judging this person based on evidence never witnessed....
496 O you who believe, if a wicked person comes to you with any news, then you shall investigate it. Lest you harm a people out of ignorance, then you will become regretful over what you have done.
You can ask for more information if unsure of what has transpired, if you still aren't convinced then don't participate.
Did you just invite me not post/participate any longer? Because I am curious? Or am I curious about the wrong things?
Please answer the first of the three genuinely.
ThanksPeace
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What is OT? And where are OT posts moved to?
Off topic to the category or thread posted in. They are moved to the nearest correct category or split/merged etc.The secret council are only so the shaitan may grieve the believers but not he can harm them in anything except which wills Allah and He is the protector of the believers.
Unless you have something to hide(I am not insinuating anything) I do not see the issue with continuing here. It seems more leaning towards righteousness to me.
I'm not sure what you're on about here. Are you saying the way the forum is set up with the admin/mods running it is a secret council? so that the shaitan may grieve the believers? Continuing what here?The accusations made towards the individual in question is kind of irrelevant to me as I can't ascertain any of your claims, especially since the posts in questions have been moved...
You asked about the individual, what transpired and deletions. Now you say it's irrelevant as you 'can't ascertain any of my claims especially since the posts in questions have been moved'? that doesn't make sense. You can't be sure of whether my claims are correct or that you can be sure of my claims being correct if only the 'posts in questions' were not moved? Which is it?We aren't obligated to inform you of things that affect other members anyways since it's between affected members and the admin/mods. We can maybe give you a summary of how things went down if you ask and depending on the situation more or less information. We aren't here to ensure that everyone on the forum is apprised of everything that happens between anyone at anytime or else we may be hiding things because we may be doing wrong.
It appears that maybe asking is not enough, and you'd rather get a front view seat to each and every discussion/decision the admin/mods have or make because we may be a secret council subject to shaitan and his nefarious purposes? I hope this isn't the case, since it seems kinda offensive and nuts.
Now these people ???????? are judging this person based on evidence never witnessed....
496 O you who believe, if a wicked person comes to you with any news, then you shall investigate it. Lest you harm a people out of ignorance, then you will become regretful over what you have done.
It's asking you to investigate based on what you know of the person and whatever news he/she brings. Or it could very well not have mentioned the wicked. Many would disregard information from such a source. A reminder, suspicion without evidence is wrong as well (4912)Did you just invite me not post/participate any longer? Because I am curious? Or am I curious about the wrong things?
Please answer the first of the three genuinely.
ThanksWhat if you are really bias on these individuals because of their ideologies or a personal rift?
You can ask for more information if unsure of what has transpired, if you still aren't convinced then don't participate.
Everyone who participates here agrees to the forum rules implicitly. Participation is a privilege not a right. It's like going to someone's house and respecting the house rules. In the scenario above, the guest asks the host about something, the host answers, the guest is not convinced the host did the right thing due to their ideologies or a personal rift. Regardless of the answers/evidence presented/discussion that ensues, the guest/host can still maintain their stance, fairly or unfairly. The guest can disagree politely and leave the hosts house if they feel strongly about it. Or they can stay and move on to other things after politely disagreeing. The other questions are not applicable.
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The accusations made towards the individual in question is kind of irrelevant to me as I can't ascertain any of your claims, especially since the posts in questions have been moved...
You asked about the individual, what transpired and deletions. Now you say it's irrelevant as you 'can't ascertain any of my claims especially since the posts in questions have been moved'? that doesn't make sense. You can't be sure of whether my claims are correct or that you can be sure of my claims being correct if only the 'posts in questions' were not moved? Which is it?
My concern is with the possibility of some form of censorship occurring, so I asked about the circumstances of this particular event, in which there is speculation of censorship. You admitted that some were moved and some deleted. This member was a member for a while so I assume he must have posts in the 100s or perhaps more. When you search for AhmedBahgat now only about 30 posts appear and they are all quotes. I think another issue is rendering the banned member as Guest prevents a searcher from searching the person's direct posts. Perhaps they might be still there, but in a way inaccessible unless familiar with the actual threads. As a new member I should be free to browse through the history of the discussions on these forums and familiarize myself with individuals who contributed to the discussions without obstacles whether they were banned or not banned. It's quite simple. Not trying to be antagonistic, only just.
So...yes, after all that your claims about his walls of shame and aggression in his posts are irrelevant to the fact that you claimed yourself you have trashed some and moved others. Since I cannot verify these things because of YOUR doing, how can I entirely trust what you are saying is correct about this individual?
Nonetheless, I am not doing this to support any particular individuals but to advocate for more transparency and highlight issues I am noticing.Why you would all of a sudden move the posts to Off-topic assuming they hadn't been before makes little sense to me also. Would you care to elaborate under which pretext they were moved?
We aren't obligated to inform you of things that affect other members anyways since it's between affected members and the admin/mods. We can maybe give you a summary of how things went down if you ask and depending on the situation more or less information. We aren't here to ensure that everyone on the forum is apprised of everything that happens between anyone at anytime or else we may be hiding things because we may be doing wrong.
It appears that maybe asking is not enough, and you'd rather get a front view seat to each and every discussion/decision the admin/mods have or make because we may be a secret council subject to shaitan and his nefarious purposes? I hope this isn't the case, since it seems kinda offensive and nuts.
Yes, exactly I think it would be more fair if the whole community is involved, GIVEN that the person being processed agrees. They should have the opportunity to choose whether they want their peers to witness what they are being accused of and how they are being dealt with. It's simple. Can you try someone without a jury/ peers and spectators?
So if you are taking the disciplining role then do it in the right way. You are acting as if you are not familiar with the idea of spectators in a courtroom.
Here please take a look if you may https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtroom
Yes, maybe not front view seats but definitely some darn seats available to spectators, general public. Does not seem troubling or complicated.
Opening a section for Disciplinary Action and starting a thread on the violation in question is not difficult We hereby today initiate the process of ..... of so and so....Perhaps make the thread read only and not editable for spectators. Real easy and fully transparent.
I push that you seriously consider/use this approach for the banning process.It's asking you to investigate based on what you know of the person and whatever news he/she brings. Or it could very well not have mentioned the wicked. Many would disregard information from such a source. A reminder, suspicion without evidence is wrong as well (4912)
Some suspicion is sin indeed. For that, I seek refuge in ALLAH that I not transgress in my affairs.
As you by now have seen I am not being as much suspicious as I am advocating for transparency.Everyone who participates here agrees to the forum rules implicitly. Participation is a privilege not a right. It's like going to someone's house and respecting the house rules. In the scenario above, the guest asks the host about something, the host answers, the guest is not convinced the host did the right thing due to their ideologies or a personal rift. Regardless of the answers/evidence presented/discussion that ensues, the guest/host can still maintain their stance, fairly or unfairly. The guest can disagree politely and leave the hosts house if they feel strongly about it. Or they can stay and move on to other things after politely disagreeing. The other questions are not applicable.
I think your analogy of the host and the guest is a bit arrogant. This forum does not belong to the mods. This "house" does not belong to the hosts but the guest. We make up the forum, our ideas and discussions and contributions are what make this environment what it is. Not a mod cracking their whip.
So no this is not your house, and if I do not agree with your rules I don't have to feel like my only 2 options are changing topic or leaving.
How arrogant of you to suggest that if anyone disagrees with the mods then they should continue to other things or leave....
It is a tyrant mentality. Do you feel entitled? Does this forum belong solely to you or the mods?
Humble yourself with all haste.
I am part of the members who make up this forum no one has the right to suggest to someone "If you don't like it you can get out"it seems kinda offensive and nuts.
Rather, I think YOUR statement is kinda OFFENSIVE AND NUTS.
Instead of apologizing for your suggestion you come up with such a BS analogy. You should be encouraging curiosity, transparency and disagreement should not warrant secession.Kind
Regards -
My concern is with the possibility of some form of censorship occurring, so I asked about the circumstances of this particular event, in which there is speculation of censorship. You admitted that some were moved and some deleted. This member was a member for a while so I assume he must have posts in the 100s or perhaps more. When you search for AhmedBahgat now only about 30 posts appear and they are all quotes. I think another issue is rendering the banned member as Guest prevents a searcher from searching the person's direct posts. Perhaps they might be still there, but in a way inaccessible unless familiar with the actual threads. As a new member I should be free to browse through the history of the discussions on these forums and familiarize myself with individuals who contributed to the discussions without obstacles whether they were banned or not banned. It's quite simple. Not trying to be antagonistic, only just.
The account was deleted due to request. The posts remain.So...yes, after all that your claims about his walls of shame and aggression in his posts are irrelevant to the fact that you claimed yourself you have trashed some and moved others. Since I cannot verify these things because of YOUR doing, how can I entirely trust what you are saying is correct about this individual?
One can read the posts, use another search engine.Why you would all of a sudden move the posts to Off-topic assuming they hadn't been before makes little sense to me also. Would you care to elaborate under which pretext they were moved?
No one suddenly moved any posts.Yes, exactly I think it would be more fair if the whole community is involved, GIVEN that the person being processed agrees. They should have the opportunity to choose whether they want their peers to witness what they are being accused of and how they are being dealt with. It's simple. Can you try someone without a jury/ peers and spectators?
So if you are taking the disciplining role then do it in the right way. You are acting as if you are not familiar with the idea of spectators in a courtroom.
Here please take a look if you may https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtroom
Yes, maybe not front view seats but definitely some darn seats available to spectators, general public. Does not seem troubling or complicated.
Opening a section for Disciplinary Action and starting a thread on the violation in question is not difficult We hereby today initiate the process of ..... of so and so....Perhaps make the thread read only and not editable for spectators. Real easy and fully transparent.
I push that you seriously consider/use this approach for the banning process.
Previously addressed.I think your analogy of the host and the guest is a bit arrogant. This forum does not belong to the mods. This "house" does not belong to the hosts but the guest. We make up the forum, our ideas and discussions and contributions are what make this environment what it is. Not a mod cracking their whip.
So no this is not your house, and if I do not agree with your rules I don't have to feel like my only 2 options are changing topic or leaving.
How arrogant of you to suggest that if anyone disagrees with the mods then they should continue to other things or leave....
It is a tyrant mentality. Do you feel entitled? Does this forum belong solely to you or the mods?
Humble yourself with all haste.
I am part of the members who make up this forum no one has the right to suggest to someone "If you don't like it you can get out"
This is the standard format for many forums as previously addressed.Rather, I think YOUR statement is kinda OFFENSIVE AND NUTS.
Instead of apologizing for your suggestion you come up with such a BS analogy. You should be encouraging curiosity, transparency and disagreement should not warrant secession.
The forum will continue to follow the standard format and until that changes, please read and abide by the Forum Rules http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8177.0Thanks for your opinion and good day.
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I think your analogy of the host and the guest is a bit arrogant. This forum does not belong to the mods. This "house" does not belong to the hosts but the guest. We make up the forum, our ideas and discussions and contributions are what make this environment what it is. Not a mod cracking their whip.
I hope you could calm down, brother.
I think s_carrot's analogy is quite acceptable, and I think we should respect the rules in this forum,
and from what I could observe, as long as we don't cause "storm" in this forum, then we could still be here (as members) and join in the discussion quite freely.
Peace.
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I hope you could calm down, brother.
I think s_carrot's analogy is quite acceptable, and I think we should respect the rules in this forum,
and from what I could observe, as long as we don't cause "storm" in this forum, then we could still be here (as members) and join in the discussion quite freely.
Peace.
I am not saying we should not respect the rules. I am merely criticizing a process employed by the forum. I just want to affirm that this environment is truly genuine and transparent.
I don't think my idea on the banning process was bad...
Nor my concern for transparency...
But I guess you have a point. I am calm no worriesPeace
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Greetings in peace,
Just to put it in a nutshell
Everyone can discuss any topics/subjects (with hard evidence for sweeping claims if made) that are relevant to the forum section without insults and abuse to either members or what this website is essentially about.
Insults and abuse disagreements or discussions. It can't be fairer than that.